Ignored truth and facts: Cassius Clay / Muhammad Ali

[Rover]

A lot of that isn't "facts."
Hint: "In my opinion..."
Just one example.

[Rover]

A lot of that isn't "facts."
Hint: "In my opinion..."
Just one example.

.. like (which)?

Another hint: the "conspiracy theory" portion.

[Rover]

Write intelligible sentences; then we'll talk.

[Rover]

Write English sans the garbled junk you produce.
As for one "fact," the glove's original cut (the origin of it) is unknown, and that occurred before the KD.
Some of your other "facts" are irrelevant, such as discussing Ali's early opponents. He isn't in the HOF for those fights.

[Rover]

James Slater wrote an excellent piece about Ali/Cooper I. The glove was torn beforehand.
Write proper English; the last portion of your last comment was much better.
Your belief about the glove (that this is the same is loading it) isn't a fact, and your belief about the role it played (6 seconds of recovery time) also isn't a fact.

[Rover]

I'll give another example:
Regarding Quarry, it's known that he cut a lot, so there's nothing "ignored" about that.

[Rover]

Another example:
There's nothing ignored about the Shavers, Young and Norton fights; they've all been discussed at length here before with some even providing RBRs for the Young and Shavers fights.

[Rover]

Another example:
The Chuvalo fight--so what? He clearly won.
Another:
The Liston fight and the part about "a dive." That's just not a fact. Repeating speculation of others doesn't make it a fact.

[JLP]

Rover, you are getting trolled to death here, pal. Can't you see that?

[Rover]

Another:
The Terrell fight: Accidental thumbs occur; part of the sport. Terrell also landed low blows in the fight. Saying that a thumb occurred isn't exactly the same as showing there was cheating.

[Rover]

Rover, you are getting trolled to death here, pal. Can't you see that?

I think he genuinely thinks this, though I'm sick of having to read some of his posts three or four times to figure out what the hell he's saying in portions of them. I'll just ignore this thread soon.

[Rover]

I'll give another example:
Regarding Quarry, it's known that he cut a lot, so there's nothing "ignored" about that.

But Ali was a serial cutter, do not u c de pattern? Y du u kip ignoring it?
No suspicions?

How come Holmes, Young, Carl Williams, whom were all quite similar stylistically and physically 2 Ali, never cut that amount of opponents?
kip ignoring/missing the idea.

Another example:
There's nothing ignored about the Shavers, Young and Norton fights; they've all been discussed at length here before with some even providing RBRs for the Young and Shavers fights.

the thing is, Ali got way 2 many 2 close calls called in his favor, how come the opposite never happened to him?
Any ideas why/how?
Also, you forgot mentioning Doug Jones and George Chuvalo while you were at it.

Another example:
The Chuvalo fight--so what? He clearly won.
Another:
The Liston fight and the part about "a dive." That's just not a fact. Repeating speculation of others doesn't make it a fact.

Ali won because of his inability to stop Chuvalo's pressure? or was it because of Chuvalo inflicted a much larger amount of punishment upon Ali than vice versa?
very clear win is to run away the entire fight only to be hospitalized later and pee blood. Ali killed Chuvalo's fists with his iron ribs and granite kidneys, did not he?

And Il Duce has his own material about the Liston fights, but for the moment being, just agree with me that for an aging, fading fighter who've lost his desire to fight, betting against himself is a sure way to get a raise on his way out.

1. I'm not interested in your suspicions; rather facts.
2. The close decisions haven't been "ignored," and that's the point.
3. Your Doug Jones point contained what fact, exactly? That you didn't know who was winning?
4. Yes, I think Ali clearly won v. Chuvalo. Whether or not he peed blood has nothing to do with it.

[Rover]

As for "Il Duce," he's another conspiracy theorist. He insinuated that the judges in one fight were (or may have been) bribed. His evidence? They had the same score!

[TheWigwam]

Where's Packardbell? At least can be funny when trolling

[Rover]

1. I'm not interested in your suspicions; rather facts.
2. The close decisions haven't been "ignored," and that's the point.
3. Your Doug Jones point contained what fact, exactly? That you didn't know who was winning?
4. Yes, I think Ali clearly won v. Chuvalo. Whether or not he peed blood has nothing to do with it.

1. Whenever I post suspicions, I explicitly state it this way.
2. You ignore the coincidence that Ali is 1 of the very few, if not the only 1, who've got all of his close calls called his way.
3. Jones did not lose that fight, based upon watching it at least 2 times.
4. chuvalo did more damage to Ali than vice versa, Chuvalo was the aggressor throughout and Ali could not stand his ground, but to you, it all means: "Ali clearly won".
BTW, Bonavena and, based on reading, Bob Cleroux as well had Chuvalo running for his life, Chuvalo was not the force of nature some would want you to believe.
He could be backed up himself, even by fighters not named George Foreman.
If I am not mistaken, Bonavena, Clreoux and Foreman were not the only ones to turn Chuvalo into a boxer
But Ali? he clearly won based on running backwards and pissing blood.

Everyone knows a winner is recognized by being hospitalized after the fight.
Am tired right now, but may come back 2 prove the wrong wrong.

1. Couldn't care less about coincidences.
2. Irrelevant about hospitalization after a fight. Leonard was v. Benitez. I thinkAli clearly won. Fights are scored for the events during the rounds, so don't talk to me about what happened *AFTER* a fight.
3. Your statement about Jones is your OPINION, not a fact. Couldn't care less about that, either.

[Rover]

Where's Packardbell? At least can be funny when trolling

Wish both would go away along with bnovelist.

[dempseyfire]

It appears granberry has returned to BOTP after suffering acute head trauma . . .

[Rover]

It appears granberry has returned to BOTP after suffering acute head trauma . . .

Who's granberry? This should be interesting.

[HomicideHenry]

The man isnt that far off the mark in a way, there is always legit 'hang ups' in every match in every fighters career, whether that be a cold, broken toe, old age, etc. these things are all apart of the human element in determining someone's all around worth, the question is just how major is all the variables in considering how much it disabled an opponent.

[Giancarlo]

The man isnt that far off the mark in a way, there is always legit 'hang ups' in every match in every fighters career, whether that be a cold, broken toe, old age, etc. these things are all apart of the human element in determining someone's all around worth, the question is just how major is all the variables in considering how much it disabled an opponent.

So, Rufus, you agree with his contention that Ali was a fraud and we are all eejits who can't see the truth?

Or maybe you are just waffling shite yet again?

[p4p1]

[Jaclem]

..some people are nuts....some people are stupid. this frankfurter guy is both. didn't bother to read beyond first few posts....i don't have a translator for illiteracy...

[Rover]

As for "Il Duce," he's another conspiracy theorist. He insinuated that the judges in one fight were (or may have been) bribed. His evidence? They had the same score!

You are taking that out of context, as it was 'one' specfic bout I was talking about. That is a low-rent move.

As for Cassius Clay versus Jim Robinson in Miami.

It was a 'fixed fight', as Jim Robinson was Cassius' friend at the 5th Street Gym.

No biggie though, as it was an undercard bout that meant absolutely nothing, other than to fill some time.

And you just proved my point.
Your evidence it was fixed?
They were friends!
And I took nothing out of context, and there was nothing low rent about it.
You're one of those conspiracy kooks, and so what if you were referring to one specific bout? It was still nothing but a conspiracy theory.
And I'll call you out each time you do it.
If you don't like it, go away.

[BoxBuzz]

frankenfrank.....thanks for finally turning your detectives eye to Ali's career and shedding light on the matter.

I especially appreciate your earlier work regarding Paul McCartney, and the "facts of the matter".

I believe this is your work:

http://www.paulreallyisdead.com/


Let us hope you can continue to enlighten us. Perhaps you can now turn your laser light of truth on the so called "Moon Landing?"


As with the case of McCartney, the only reason people were led to belive "the greatest" could really fight, was to keep the hoard of fans from suicidal tendencies if the truth about Ali's inabilites as a boxer were ever discovered. Even in this day and age, one can only hope that no lives are lost as a result of this perhaps ill advised "truth telling". I know I'm having to consider my own mortality after reading frankenfranks discoveries.

I'm hoping I can find a reason to carry on.

[Rover]

frankenfrank.....thanks for finally turning your detectives eye to Ali's career and shedding light on the matter.

I especially appreciate your earlier work regarding Paul McCartney, and the "facts of the matter".

I believe this is your work:

http://www.paulreallyisdead.com/


Let us hope you can continue to enlighten us. Perhaps you can now turn your laser light of truth on the so called "Moon Landing?"