British Boxing's reputation falls still lower

mrbassie · Post by **mrbassie** » 20 Mar 2004, 20:52

Cook gets no credit from me, he fouled the fornicate out of Thomas throughout the fight and the deliberately chosen incompetant referee let him: Incalulable low blows, repeated hitting on the break, head butt.......
If there is any justice in the world there will be a subsequent no contest ruling and Cook will be stripped, that was like both Bowe-Golota fights condensed into one.
I am disgusted and all the bbc bogus boffins should be ashamed for trying to cover up

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 20 Mar 2004, 20:59

mrbassie wrote:Cook gets no credit from me, he fouled the fornicate out of Thomas throughout the fight and the deliberately chosen incompetant referee let him: Incalulable low blows, repeated hitting on the break, head butt.......
If there is any justice in the world there will be a subsequent no contest ruling and Cook will be stripped, that was like both Bowe-Golota fights condensed into one.
I am disgusted and all the bbc bogus boffins should be ashamed for trying to cover up

In France, I'm sure Cookie would have endured similar favouritism (Fabrice Tiozzo received a bit of a hometown verdict over Silvio Branco in Lyon tonight in fact). It goes with the territory you're on. Cookie, fortunately, was at home.

pvdh62 · Post by **pvdh62** » 20 Mar 2004, 22:02

Mr. Bassie is right. This had nothing to do with boxing.

Winning a title by throwing over at least a 100 low blows within 9 rounds is outragious. The fact that everybody involved seemed pleased with it afterwards makes it even more shameful.

Damn shame that the credibility of British boxing has sunk so low.

kevin · Post by **kevin** » 20 Mar 2004, 22:09

Obviously this fight looked a lot different from the press section than it did on TV.. The majority of the press section wasn't at ringside, (I know how Claude feels now sitting behind the corner posts!) it was in the first tiered section of the Arena. A few shots did look low, but Thomas didn't seem to complain. In fact one of his cornermen said something to the ref before the fight, so maybe they were expecting a dirty contest?

A couple of the shots looked borderline, but from where I was it looked like a good performance by Cook, unfortunately I didn't tape it so will have to wait for my copy from Red Dragon, before I can see what all the fuss was about.

A full review of the night is up now at BBN (Maybe I'll rewrite it once I have watched the tape!)

Kev
BritishBoxing.net

neil r · Post by **neil r** » 21 Mar 2004, 07:11

OK there were a few fouls, couple of head clashes and some low blows, thats boxing. I though Cook deserved it.

However Im interested in the title of the post. Amongst who is the reputation of British boxing falling even lower??

I ceratianly cant see any other country having the cheek to turn round and comment on the standards of British refereeing or judging. After all last nights referee was Spanish (werent his pre fight instructions outstanding?)

Im sure we're all aware of the old cliche that in places like France and Italy etc you need a knock out to get a draw. Sven Ottke decisions in Germany can be outragous, remember the Reid fight? and as for the Americans, well lifes too short to go into every bad decision made by the judges or the ref.

the Brodie/Chi debacle was as a result of a foreign president of an international governing body getting involved where he shouldnt.

fair enough last nights refereeing was poor. But can anyone honestly name a promoter who wouldnt want to get every advantage for their own fighter? after all, all parties agree on the appointed referee and judges beforehand.

So i dont think that the reputation of British boxing is all that bad in comparison to othr places.

glittermonkey · Post by **glittermonkey** » 21 Mar 2004, 07:11

I'd put the blame squarely on the ref. He might be a good ref in Spain but to me his appointment for this fight was a clear mistake.
It was clear when he talked to the fighters before the bout started that neither guy understood what he was saying, and his commands throughout the fight were unclear. I'm pretty sure the fight would have been a lot cleaner had the ref been able to speak English and French.
Mrbassie has a point, i've seen fighters pick up a DQ for less, but Thomas was also consistantly fouling Cook, several times he hit on the break.
Once again a fight i was looking forward to was spoilt by poor officials.

mrbassie · Post by **mrbassie** » 21 Mar 2004, 08:32

I don't see how it matters whether our reputation is bad, as bad, or worse than anywhere else, it still stinks. you mention Germany, a place which is criticised roundly for dodgy decisions and your point is......what? All the fornicating time you see the foreign fighter get stopped too early (haye-Mock) or worse like tonight you see flagrant fouling and nothing done about it.
There few not "a few" fouls, they were endless, he was landing low blows in two's and three's all night. Cook should have had points deducted and then he should have been disqualified, end of story.
Everyone was making noise about Ottke-Reid but last night was as bad if not worse.

mrbassie · Post by **mrbassie** » 21 Mar 2004, 08:36

glittermonkey wrote: but Thomas was also consistantly fouling Cook, several times he hit on the break.
Once again a fight i was looking forward to was spoilt by poor officials.

That's true, but he didn't start fouling back until a couple of rounds had gone by. The referee was doing nothing to protect his family jewels so what else was he going to do? As for hitting on the break Cook did that first, several times as well as numerous low blows before Thomas retaliated in kind.

ArtOfWar · Post by **ArtOfWar** » 21 Mar 2004, 10:10

Thomas was constantly hitting Cooke behind the head when they were in clinches, so it wasn't one sided. Anyway who cares, Britain has a European champion.

Loftgroov · Post by **Loftgroov** » 21 Mar 2004, 10:47

BOLLOCKS19842003 wrote:Thomas was constantly hitting Cooke behind the head when they were in clinches, so it wasn't one sided. Anyway who cares, Britain has a European champion.

Hmm..yes but it's not just about having the title is it. People will still remember how you got it.

I too was pretty shocked at the number of low blows from Cook. Saying that.. I was equally shocked at why a non-English (or French) speaking referee, jabbering away in Spanish to both fighters (neither of whom understood a word) was chosen to referee the fight.

But hey, such is life....

dondada · Post by **dondada** » 21 Mar 2004, 13:06

glittermonkey wrote:I'd put the blame squarely on the ref. He might be a good ref in Spain but to me his appointment for this fight was a clear mistake.
It was clear when he talked to the fighters before the bout started that neither guy understood what he was saying, and his commands throughout the fight were unclear. I'm pretty sure the fight would have been a lot cleaner had the ref been able to speak English and French.
Mrbassie has a point, i've seen fighters pick up a DQ for less, but Thomas was also consistantly fouling Cook, several times he hit on the break.
Once again a fight i was looking forward to was spoilt by poor officials.

I agree with this...apart from the point about Thomas fouling Cook. He didn't start until it was obvious he was going to get no protection from the very, very poor referee.

It's silly appointing an official who can't verbally communicate with the fighters but not an insurmountable problem. Decent body language can go a long way. Even if I was mute, I would have made it very clear to Cook that if he went south of the border again he would have had a point taken off. I don't really blame Cook - I'm sure if the ref had told him to behave he would have done so.

The Spaniard was incompetent.

JimStone · Post by **JimStone** » 21 Mar 2004, 13:25

It was the best match on the card, Cook was fantastic.

I can't believe the bitching going on in this thread, there wasn't one punch that landed square in the Frenchman's nuts, you're just being soft. Sort yourselves out, it's boxing for fucks sake.

JimStone · Post by **JimStone** » 21 Mar 2004, 14:26

I do see your point to an extent, but I was always taught to keep throwing punches until the ref tells you otherwise, so there is no fault to be levelled at Cook.

If the shots were terribly low and the ref was doing nothing then yes, there's a problem, but I don't think they were anything worse than borderline. The commentator was making it sound worse than it was.

MGibbonsMC · Post by **MGibbonsMC** » 21 Mar 2004, 14:48

neil r wrote:I ceratianly cant see any other country having the cheek to turn round and comment on the standards of British refereeing or judging. After all last nights referee was Spanish (werent his pre fight instructions outstanding?).

Yeah I agree neil, I MC'd the Esham Pickering V Vincento Giligotti Vacant EBU European Super Bantamweight title fight at Penningtons, Bradford recently and the referee there was from Spain a Mr Jose Vilas Muller and he spoke fluent Spanish, unfortunatly this was all he could speak.

I recall hearing in my ear pierce, the BBC Producer saying, putting it in better terms, what the $*!% is this guy saying, does anyone know ? I looked at Esham and Gigliotti, the pair were just nose to nose at the touching of gloves, i dont suppose they cared too much.

If referee's are to officiate at these major title fights, they must surely to god need to learn how to speak english, even if its broken. I mean the Frenchman wouldnt have understood his commands niether would Nicky Cook, when recieving the counts, the frenchman must have just counted the fingers the ref was displaying with each count to gage as to when to stand up.

As far as the fight goes, well I agree that a few of the punches strayed below the waste line, and I agree the BBC did attempt to cover it up. Steve Bunce was quoted in saying:

"out of a hundred body shots landed 10 of them strayed low, that cant be all too bad"

I pose this question had the boot been on the other foot, and the frenchman beat Nicky using simular tactics what would the BBC have said to that ? But on the back of this, Boxing is a business and sometimes there are some key talking points, sometimes controversal, Nicky boxed well, he looked impressive.

If all the British boxing fans can do is call him for the low blows rather than praise the clinical finishing, coupled with the sheer determination that eventually drove his man into submission, then im sorry guys, boxing is on the downward spiral, but its been driven there by people who are sat on the other side of ropes, not the athletes with in it.

I like Nicky, he is a cracking prospect, Manager & Promoter Jess Harding got it right when he said:

"As far as future hot prospects go, you cant get much better than Nicky Cook"

Oh by the way UP the tigers !! Hull City AFC lol

TheRiverCityHippy · Post by **TheRiverCityHippy** » 21 Mar 2004, 15:05

no mate, boxing`s on a downward spiral if fouls are overlooked because the fighter committing them is the home fighter.
imo cook should have at least had points deducted for persisstent low blows.
people called the germans in the ottke/reid fight but that ref was belgian.
it doesn`t reflect any better on the integrity of british boxing that the ref was spanish.
i like cook but you`ve gotta have rules.

MGibbonsMC · Post by **MGibbonsMC** » 21 Mar 2004, 15:51

you make it sound if the blows were well low of the belt. And that Cookie was deliberate in those shots. Agreed, if a boxer, regardless of creed, or whether he is home or away, commits a foul. Then the referee should issue a warning, as I recall the spanish referee last night didnt even take Cookie to one side, let alone deducting a point.

I still believe, and looking at the rest of the forum I realise im not on my own when I say Cookie is not a dirty fighter, the shots did stray south, but were more borderline, than an obvious low blow.

When the frenchman was tucked in as tight as he was, Cookie switched his attack to around the sides beneath the arms, then occassionally slipping the odd shots in between the arms to abs area, the shots were border line.

Good win for Cookie !

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 21 Mar 2004, 16:10

Not all of the shots landed low and some decent body and head shots had Thomas wanting no more, his rabbit punches during every clinch were not exactly angelic either. The ref was incompetent i agree with that but comparing Britain with Germany is wrong, Germany is a lot lot worse i would say.

mrbassie · Post by **mrbassie** » 21 Mar 2004, 17:14

MGibbonsMC wrote:, the shots did stray south, but were more borderline, than an obvious low blow.

That's partially true, some were borderline some were not but the sheer volume makes the point redundant.
In any case, what pissed me off about the whole thing moe than anything was the way that auntie's team simply ignored it, for every foul observed by the commentators there were three, and the post fight babbling from Bunce and the others made no mention (as memory serves) of it being a very dirty fight. Same thing from fans on the boards, it's the domestic fighter so let's all ignore it. Whatever happened to a sense of fair play? It's just not cricket etc. Humbug! when it hits you in the bollocks; a spade is a spade, whether it's been used to dig up bully beef and Bernard Mathews turkey carcasses or not.

neil r · Post by **neil r** » 21 Mar 2004, 19:16

mrbassie wrote:I don't see how it matters whether our reputation is bad, as bad, or worse than anywhere else, it still stinks.

where? or amongst who?

Kilburn · Post by **Kilburn** » 22 Mar 2004, 05:36

Cyril Thomas had a rough time in there no doubt, and had it been the other way around we'd all be furious about it. It was the legit body shots that got him in the end though.

I would say had Robin Reid gone over to Deutschland and beaten Ottke the same way no bugger would be complaining.

MGibbonsMC · Post by **MGibbonsMC** » 22 Mar 2004, 06:07

Kilburn wrote:Cyril Thomas had a rough time in there no doubt, and had it been the other way around we'd all be furious about it. It was the legit body shots that got him in the end though.

I would say had Robin Reid gone over to Deutschland and beaten Ottke the same way no bugger would be complaining.

Exactly Kilburn, I agree with you totally.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 22 Mar 2004, 09:02

The referee is at fault, though I do find it strange that if those shots were straying so low, that Tomas didn't complain more, he didn't moan once about it.

The choice of referee was baffling, how fornicate hell can you have a ref that cannot explain himself to either fighter.

I thought that it was the legit shots which really did the damage, though the low ones cannot have helped of course.

I don't think any of it was deliberate. I think cook was just anxious to do a number and that's why he kept straying...

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 22 Mar 2004, 09:04

It don't matter if a ref can't speak English. Every fighter in the world understands when a ref gestures with his hand to "keep 'em up!"

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 22 Mar 2004, 09:47

I thought a lot of the blows were borderline or on the waistband. A few strayed lower and the ref should have got a grasp of it but its no disgrace at all.

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 22 Mar 2004, 09:53

A lot of those shots were bordeline that's true. But let's not forget, the bloke he beat is French....so what the hell!

British Boxing's reputation falls still lower

British Boxing's reputation falls still lower

Re: British Boxing's reputation falls still lower