joe roman...did he upset big george in some way?
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misterpunch
- Light Heavyweight
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- Joined: 13 Jan 2012, 17:48
joe roman...did he upset big george in some way?
i have heard a rumour that joe roman foolishly said something to george foreman leading up to their brief duel in the early 70's - i just watched the fight and OUCH!! foreman seems to be putting a bit extra into his blows. did the awesome roman upset george in some minor way?
Re: joe roman...did he upset big george in some way?
Supposedly something was said to Foreman that pissed him off before the fight.misterpunch wrote:i have heard a rumour that joe roman foolishly said something to george foreman leading up to their brief duel in the early 70's - i just watched the fight and OUCH!! foreman seems to be putting a bit extra into his blows. did the awesome roman upset george in some minor way?
There was no way Roman was going to survive the first round. What did it go, about a minute?
Foreman hit Roman while he was down on the first knockdown and later on blatantly shoved him into a corner using both hands.
It was not one of the finer moments in heavyweight championship boxing. Fans of one-sided brutal slaughters might disagree.
Hope Roman is doing okay these days.
Re: joe roman...did he upset big george in some way?
There were 2 versions of that fight that I have seen on ESPN CLASSIC
over the years.The shorter video-tape to film transfer from Bigfights Inc.
and a complete video-tape version.
The complete video-tape version
(for delayed viewing for ABC Wild World of Sports),
if you watch that version of it,when the referre is giving instructions and Foreman is giving Roman his best menacing stare down,
when all the sudden Joe"King" Roman sort of gives off a short bark,that startles George Foreman for a brief moment and makes Foreman jump back all the sudden.That must have PO'd Foreman to be embarresed that way if you ask me and he subsequently took it out on Joe"King"Roman.
over the years.The shorter video-tape to film transfer from Bigfights Inc.
and a complete video-tape version.
The complete video-tape version
(for delayed viewing for ABC Wild World of Sports),
if you watch that version of it,when the referre is giving instructions and Foreman is giving Roman his best menacing stare down,
when all the sudden Joe"King" Roman sort of gives off a short bark,that startles George Foreman for a brief moment and makes Foreman jump back all the sudden.That must have PO'd Foreman to be embarresed that way if you ask me and he subsequently took it out on Joe"King"Roman.
Re: joe roman...did he upset big george in some way?
The original story I heard and that I believe was reported in Sports Illustrated's coverage of the fight was that Roman "spit" on Foreman at the weigh-in.
Foreman made a lot of tough guys like like teenagers in the ring. Roman fought in a "Toughman Contest" in Tampa in the late 70's and was reported by Bob Roop (professional wrestler who was a Greco-Roman amateur champ) to have been sucker-kicked in the groin by a karate fighter- eventually losing a testicle- and then got up off the floor and obliterated him afterwards before having to go to the hospital.
Foreman made a lot of tough guys like like teenagers in the ring. Roman fought in a "Toughman Contest" in Tampa in the late 70's and was reported by Bob Roop (professional wrestler who was a Greco-Roman amateur champ) to have been sucker-kicked in the groin by a karate fighter- eventually losing a testicle- and then got up off the floor and obliterated him afterwards before having to go to the hospital.
Re: joe roman...did he upset big george in some way?
Wild story.Dart340 wrote:The original story I heard and that I believe was reported in Sports Illustrated's coverage of the fight was that Roman "spit" on Foreman at the weigh-in.
Foreman made a lot of tough guys like like teenagers in the ring. Roman fought in a "Toughman Contest" in Tampa in the late 70's and was reported by Bob Roop (professional wrestler who was a Greco-Roman amateur champ) to have been sucker-kicked in the groin by a karate fighter- eventually losing a testicle- and then got up off the floor and obliterated him afterwards before having to go to the hospital.
Re: joe roman...did he upset big george in some way?
Don't bark at the big dog!Brutu wrote:There were 2 versions of that fight that I have seen on ESPN CLASSIC
over the years.The shorter video-tape to film transfer from Bigfights Inc.
and a complete video-tape version.
The complete video-tape version
(for delayed viewing for ABC Wild World of Sports),
if you watch that version of it,when the referre is giving instructions and Foreman is giving Roman his best menacing stare down,
when all the sudden Joe"King" Roman sort of gives off a short bark,that startles George Foreman for a brief moment and makes Foreman jump back all the sudden.That must have PO'd Foreman to be embarresed that way if you ask me and he subsequently took it out on Joe"King"Roman.
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misterpunch
- Light Heavyweight
- Posts: 1252
- Joined: 13 Jan 2012, 17:48
Re: joe roman...did he upset big george in some way?
i looked hard at the pre-first round face off and couldnt see anything that could lead to george getting especially mean. it might have happened but i cant see it from that camera angle.
Re: joe roman...did he upset big george in some way?
Here's Bob Roop's specific version of the story about Roman:
We were in Tampa for three or four days and learned that a toughman contest was going to held on the upcoming Saturday evening. I'm not sure why Orton entered, perhaps to win the prize money or maybe the same reason I did, to show to the huge crowd attending the event that, unlike any of the local pro wrestlers, supposedly many times tougher than any mere toughman entrant, we at least had the guts to enter and fight for real and perhaps even win the thing. It was my way of hurting Graham's business by creating some wonderment among the spectators, certainly many of them wrestling fans, about whynone of the CWF wrestlers were entered in the contest. It did create that effect.
Alas, we were young and naive to the toughman business and should have realized that winning was not an option. Even though we did not when entering the contest tell the toughman people we were pro wrestlers, they found out soon enough, indeed about ten seconds after we left the dressing room for the ring. Once we had been found out, they made sure we would not win, certainly and probably accurately feeling that having a pro wrestler win the event would create doubt in the minds of the spectators as to the veracity of the whole thing.
As proof of the above: Orton took down some kid about fifteen times in three minutes while the kid hit him with about three jabs for his three minute attack and they gave the decision to the kid. And yes, the audience did howl about it. This was a serious situation, the TM people had a ringer, a karate dude working for them, who was supposed to win the thing. He fought with a local boxer named Joe Roman, who had achieved enough stature during his prime to get a fight with Joe Frazier in Tokyo. This karate thug kicked Roman so hard in the crotch I later learned Roman lost a testicle. You can imagine the surprize of the thug and his slimy employers when this devastating kick, instead of finishing Roman as it would almost everyone, unleased a furious flurry of punching that flattened the thug. Roman won the bout but was out for a ten count, about ten months most likely due to the upcoming surgery. He collapsed after the match and had to be helped back to the dressing room.
We were in Tampa for three or four days and learned that a toughman contest was going to held on the upcoming Saturday evening. I'm not sure why Orton entered, perhaps to win the prize money or maybe the same reason I did, to show to the huge crowd attending the event that, unlike any of the local pro wrestlers, supposedly many times tougher than any mere toughman entrant, we at least had the guts to enter and fight for real and perhaps even win the thing. It was my way of hurting Graham's business by creating some wonderment among the spectators, certainly many of them wrestling fans, about whynone of the CWF wrestlers were entered in the contest. It did create that effect.
Alas, we were young and naive to the toughman business and should have realized that winning was not an option. Even though we did not when entering the contest tell the toughman people we were pro wrestlers, they found out soon enough, indeed about ten seconds after we left the dressing room for the ring. Once we had been found out, they made sure we would not win, certainly and probably accurately feeling that having a pro wrestler win the event would create doubt in the minds of the spectators as to the veracity of the whole thing.
As proof of the above: Orton took down some kid about fifteen times in three minutes while the kid hit him with about three jabs for his three minute attack and they gave the decision to the kid. And yes, the audience did howl about it. This was a serious situation, the TM people had a ringer, a karate dude working for them, who was supposed to win the thing. He fought with a local boxer named Joe Roman, who had achieved enough stature during his prime to get a fight with Joe Frazier in Tokyo. This karate thug kicked Roman so hard in the crotch I later learned Roman lost a testicle. You can imagine the surprize of the thug and his slimy employers when this devastating kick, instead of finishing Roman as it would almost everyone, unleased a furious flurry of punching that flattened the thug. Roman won the bout but was out for a ten count, about ten months most likely due to the upcoming surgery. He collapsed after the match and had to be helped back to the dressing room.
Re: joe roman...did he upset big george in some way?
Surprised that guy didn't list Roman's main credential as having fought Foreman for the title.Dart340 wrote:Here's Bob Roop's specific version of the story about Roman:
We were in Tampa for three or four days and learned that a toughman contest was going to held on the upcoming Saturday evening. I'm not sure why Orton entered, perhaps to win the prize money or maybe the same reason I did, to show to the huge crowd attending the event that, unlike any of the local pro wrestlers, supposedly many times tougher than any mere toughman entrant, we at least had the guts to enter and fight for real and perhaps even win the thing. It was my way of hurting Graham's business by creating some wonderment among the spectators, certainly many of them wrestling fans, about whynone of the CWF wrestlers were entered in the contest. It did create that effect.
Alas, we were young and naive to the toughman business and should have realized that winning was not an option. Even though we did not when entering the contest tell the toughman people we were pro wrestlers, they found out soon enough, indeed about ten seconds after we left the dressing room for the ring. Once we had been found out, they made sure we would not win, certainly and probably accurately feeling that having a pro wrestler win the event would create doubt in the minds of the spectators as to the veracity of the whole thing.
As proof of the above: Orton took down some kid about fifteen times in three minutes while the kid hit him with about three jabs for his three minute attack and they gave the decision to the kid. And yes, the audience did howl about it. This was a serious situation, the TM people had a ringer, a karate dude working for them, who was supposed to win the thing. He fought with a local boxer named Joe Roman, who had achieved enough stature during his prime to get a fight with Joe Frazier in Tokyo. This karate thug kicked Roman so hard in the crotch I later learned Roman lost a testicle. You can imagine the surprize of the thug and his slimy employers when this devastating kick, instead of finishing Roman as it would almost everyone, unleased a furious flurry of punching that flattened the thug. Roman won the bout but was out for a ten count, about ten months most likely due to the upcoming surgery. He collapsed after the match and had to be helped back to the dressing room.
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bluerosekiller
- Heavyweight
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- Joined: 15 Apr 2010, 21:17
Re: joe roman...did he upset big george in some way?
Can anyone out there provide me with the information regarding what qualified Roman for his title opportunity with Foreman?
I mean there HAD to have been some sort of a catalyst for the powers that be to choose him over other, more deserving challengers. Someone must know what it was, right? It's been something that I've been wondering about for decades now.
Now, years ago, I remember reading a bit in an old issue of WORLD BOXING from that era that claimed that Foreman's original plan was to fight Lockport, NY's Tony Ventura, but then Roman upset the applecart along the way by knocking Ventura out in a round or two in a tune up fight, so he got the shot in Tokyo instead.
My problem with that particular theory though, was that while inspecting Ventura's record during that point in time, it certainly doesn't indicate anything that would have had him in anyone's top ten or propelled him to a World Title fight.
So, any facts, clues or theories about Foreman's people choosing Roman for Tokyo would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
I mean there HAD to have been some sort of a catalyst for the powers that be to choose him over other, more deserving challengers. Someone must know what it was, right? It's been something that I've been wondering about for decades now.
Now, years ago, I remember reading a bit in an old issue of WORLD BOXING from that era that claimed that Foreman's original plan was to fight Lockport, NY's Tony Ventura, but then Roman upset the applecart along the way by knocking Ventura out in a round or two in a tune up fight, so he got the shot in Tokyo instead.
My problem with that particular theory though, was that while inspecting Ventura's record during that point in time, it certainly doesn't indicate anything that would have had him in anyone's top ten or propelled him to a World Title fight.
So, any facts, clues or theories about Foreman's people choosing Roman for Tokyo would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
Re: joe roman...did he upset big george in some way?
George Foreman vs Joe "King"Roman was considered important enough
to be shown orginally on closed-circuit television(Video-Techniques)
,so if you wanted to see it live in 1973,you either had to fly to Japan or you had to go downtown to the movie house or arena to watch it.
Im wondering what were the preliminaries to it,
were they bouts from other cities?
to be shown orginally on closed-circuit television(Video-Techniques)
,so if you wanted to see it live in 1973,you either had to fly to Japan or you had to go downtown to the movie house or arena to watch it.
Im wondering what were the preliminaries to it,
were they bouts from other cities?
Re: joe roman...did he upset big george in some way?
Il Duce, I thought the gimmick was also that Roman beat Jose Urtain in Puerto Rico and Urtain was on the short list for possible easy fights for Frazier/Foreman beforehand?
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misterpunch
- Light Heavyweight
- Posts: 1252
- Joined: 13 Jan 2012, 17:48
Re: joe roman...did he upset big george in some way?
wow! ranked 4!! lets find the other top tenners please
Re: joe roman...did he upset big george in some way?
I think they wanted Jerry Quarry to fight as a co-feature.
Dick Sadler originally wanted Quarry vs Shavers to fight
in Japan too when Foreman vs Roman was first announced.
Im not sure why Quarry didnt fight in the preliminary.
Dick Sadler originally wanted Quarry vs Shavers to fight
in Japan too when Foreman vs Roman was first announced.
Im not sure why Quarry didnt fight in the preliminary.
Re: joe roman...did he upset big george in some way?
The George Foreman of the early 1970's was one surly mofo.
It didn't take much to tick him off.
However as a boxing fan, you knew however angry he seemed he had enough discepline not to go literally go postal like a lot of the fighters seemed to
do back in the 1990's.
Here is a news a paper article that may explain
why Foreman got even more ticked off then usual.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=e7 ... 2798314&dq
It didn't take much to tick him off.
However as a boxing fan, you knew however angry he seemed he had enough discepline not to go literally go postal like a lot of the fighters seemed to
do back in the 1990's.
Here is a news a paper article that may explain
why Foreman got even more ticked off then usual.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=e7 ... 2798314&dq
Re: joe roman...did he upset big george in some way?
which version did you watch?misterpunch wrote:i looked hard at the pre-first round face off and couldnt see anything that could lead to george getting especially mean. it might have happened but i cant see it from that camera angle.
There is at least 2 maybe 3 versions.
Its kind of subtle so you have to watch closely.
I just remembering looking for it whenever ESPN Classic replayed
the long version .
Maybe the version you had seen, someone may have been
standing in the way from the camera angle.
That fight took place 12:30 pm on a Saturday afternoon in Japan
so people in the USA could watch it live Friday night via closed-circuit
at 11:30 pm(EDT).
It was the first World heavyweight Championship fight
to be held in Japan.
Re: joe roman...did he upset big george in some way?
When did Ring start ranking only the top 10 in each division rather than this type of extended list?Il Duce wrote:Mr. Punch
December 1972 (Before the Joe Frazier vs George Foreman bout in January 1973)
**** Joe Frazier
#1... Muhammad Ali
#2... George Foreman
#3... Jimmy Ellis
#4... Ron Lyle
#5... Floyd Patterson
#6... Ernie Terrell
#7... Jose 'King' Roman
#8... Joe Bugner
#9... Ken Norton
#10. Jose Luis Garcia
#11. Jerry Quarry
#12. Mac Foster
#13. Jeff 'Candy Slim' Merritt
#14. Earnie Shavers
#15. Larry Middleton
#16. Danny McAlinden
#17. Roy 'Tiger' Williams
#18. Gregorio Peralta
#19. Alvin 'Blue' Lewis
#20. Jack 'Giant' O'Halloran
#21. Chuck Wepner
#22. Randy Neumann
#23. Henry Clark
#24. Bunny Johnson
#25. Fonomanu 'Young' Sekona
Re: joe roman...did he upset big george in some way?
The third photo captures George winding up to hit Roman after he was down on the first knockdown.
Roman's corner protested but the referee didn't seemed bothered by it. Not that it was going to matter.
Re: joe roman...did he upset big george in some way?
Maybe Foreman just thought that Roman was going to throw a punch from a low,very low,low crouch?
Re: joe roman...did he upset big george in some way?
Yeah, George was just defending himself.Brutu wrote:Maybe Foreman just thought that Roman was going to throw a punch from a low,very low,low crouch?
Re: joe roman...did he upset big george in some way?
It may be difficult to tell,since that one photo was taken from a long distance.Is it possible that
Joe"King"Roman may very well have been at the very least
THINKING about throwing a leaping left hook from that position.
(scroll down for a better view of the ring action)
http://www.books.google.com/books?id=FV ... pg=PA54&dq
Joe"King"Roman may very well have been at the very least
THINKING about throwing a leaping left hook from that position.
(scroll down for a better view of the ring action)
http://www.books.google.com/books?id=FV ... pg=PA54&dq
Re: joe roman...did he upset big george in some way?
Brutu wrote:It may be difficult to tell,since that one photo was taken from a long distance.Is it possible that
Joe"King"Roman may very well have been at the very least
THINKING about throwing a leaping left hook from that position.
(scroll down for a better view of the ring action)
http://www.books.google.com/books?id=FV ... pg=PA54&dq
Yes, you may be on to something. In fact, this knockdown thing could well simply have been a ploy on Roman's part.
Go down, gather yourself and torque into a monstrous leaping left hook for a one shot kill on George. Fame and riches to follow.
Re: joe roman...did he upset big george in some way?
I bet George Foreman would think later on ,that he sure wished
that he had had this referee with him while he was in Kinshasha Zaire.
"Earth to Joe...earth to Joe"
http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news- ... /150585777
that he had had this referee with him while he was in Kinshasha Zaire.
"Earth to Joe...earth to Joe"
http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news- ... /150585777