Sven Ottke: a great fighter

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 27 Mar 2004, 20:02

I'm serious. I always greatly admired Sven Ottke. He knew how to keep his nose in front, and if not, knew how to stay on even terms so that the decision would go his way in Germany. He was a thinking man's fighter. And he fought the best.

Matchfixer · Post by **Matchfixer** » 27 Mar 2004, 21:13

A clever fighter not a great one!

I wouldn't say he fought all the best fighters and I don't think he was on even terms in the Reid fight which was a clear defeat. I believe several others before this were debatable decisions.

Knowing how to get a decision from dubious German refereeing does not make you a great fighter.

Whenever I've seen him fight he seems quite limited and does not throw enough punches... please don't call it German efficiency! Boring would be more accurate.

The fact he is likely to retire with an 'unbeaten' record is an embarrassment for boxing.

Sweet P · Post by **Sweet P** » 28 Mar 2004, 00:15

You two are idiots a prime Ottke would have easily beaten Calzaghe and it would have been a close fight even now, Although you may think that Ottke avioded Calzaghe maybe it is the other way around. Calzaghe is moving up to aviod the top fighters at 168 something that Ottke never did.He fought far better opposition than Calzaghe.

{amateur} · Post by **{amateur}** » 28 Mar 2004, 00:45

Ottke was not scared of no one, while on the other hand Calzghe the little faggot who trys to make himself look better by challenging people to fight and offers them half or a quater of what they make to fight someone else, Evidnece hear he offers Ottke 1 million Euros to fight him in Wales Ottke makes 1.5 million Euros on most fights but on big events he makes up to 3-4 and Joe offers him 1 to go to wales oh my god and what he offered Hopkins like 2.5 million to move up in weight to fight him oh my god he is sooo good isn't he just great all the all the balls in boxing.

{amateur} · Post by **{amateur}** » 28 Mar 2004, 00:47

Me having a die hard hatred of Joe had nothing to do with my bias post

.

Bard of Boxrec · Post by **Bard of Boxrec** » 28 Mar 2004, 08:44

A total fraud and a disgrace to the sport.

You can call him great all you want, but if the man had fought maybe 10 times in America against the 10 best fighters he fought in Germany, plus maybe 5 other times abroad somewhere else, he would have been retiring with 7 or 8 losses, probably no title, and none of this recognition as a 'great'.

Lets have a rundown.

can't punch.
never fought in a superfight, or against a young, dangerous, highly praised fighter.
negative, cynical tactics for EVERY fight.
no variety in his work.
dirty fighter.
unsportsmanlike.
no real talent or skills.
embarassingly slow starter.

that enough? What great fighter in the past had all of these unsavoury qualities?

good riddance.

btw, i've seen sven ottke fights from years ago and although he faded over time he was never the 'excellent tactical fighter' people made him out to be.

daniel son · Post by **daniel son** » 28 Mar 2004, 08:58

Ben Keilty wrote:You two are idiots a prime Ottke would have easily beaten Calzaghe and it would have been a close fight even now

I doubt it Ben, you say a prime Ottke EASILY beats Calzaghe but then go on to say it would have been CLOSE? I don't understand is it a close fight or an easy win for Ottke? Calzaghe would have beaten him without too much fuss, his style of fighting would not trouble Joe unless he had his mum, dad & brother judging and his grandad ref to contend with.

beduff · Post by **beduff** » 28 Mar 2004, 09:04

ottke a great fighter?in a word no,a disgrace yes.

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 28 Mar 2004, 09:06

Most world title defences ever made per reign:

Joe Louis: 25
Abe Attell: 22
Ricardo Lopez: 21
Sven Ottke: 21
Larry Holmes: 20

beduff · Post by **beduff** » 28 Mar 2004, 09:14

yeh and your point is bennie?get me a table of most robberies and ottke will be at the top,do u honestly believe ottke is/was a great fighter?he has never fought outside of germany thats how good the coward is.

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 28 Mar 2004, 09:20

I can see both sides of the argument but could never call Ottke great, it's a shame he retired undefeated i would have liked to have seen him beaten, he had a lot of controversial wins, too many in fact to be called great. Most of the time he did just enough but sometimes he didn't even do that, as he grew older his strategy was.....take it easy in the first six rounds and lose them (on unbiased cards) but take maybe 3 or 4 of them on the judges cards and then up the tempo to hugging and holding and general complaining for the next six rounds, the cards would then come in with a 117-112, 116-112 and maybe a 115-113 to keep things close. Basically he only needed to keep on his feet and he won.

Don't get me wrong as a younger fighter when his legs worked well and his defence was tight he was a good fighter but as he got older he did even less during rounds and held and fouled and complained more than ever, let's not forget he was always a bad sportsman. He did fight better opposition than Calzaghe i admit that, i'm no Calzaghe fan but he would have beaten Ottke i think, there is no way the tentative and old Ottke that fought Reid could have lived with the intensity and constant punching of Calzaghe...no way IMO.

Look at some his wins for a start:

Robin Reid - Many though Reid had won the fight.
Mads Larsen - Many including Steve Holdsworth thought Larsen to have won the fight.
David Starie - I had Ottke winning this one but still some factions though Starie might have been worth at least a draw.
Anthony Mundine - Ottke was being taken to school and made to look slow and old by 10 fight novice Mundine, pity Mundine could not take a punch.
Byron Mitchell - Again i thought Ottke won but some did not, hence a 116-112 score in favour of Mitchell by one judge.
Charles Brewer fights - Never seen either but lots of people say Brewer won both, particuarly the first fight.
Glencoffe Johnson - Never seen this fight but Steve Holdsworth maintains that Johnson won when commentating on another Ottke fight.

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 28 Mar 2004, 09:24

beduff wrote:yeh and your point is bennie?get me a table of most robberies and ottke will be at the top,do u honestly believe ottke is/was a great fighter?he has never fought outside of germany thats how good the coward is.

I thought the point was self-explanatory. His record as a world champion puts him up there with the greats.
And why should he fight outside Germany? Roy Jones has never fought outside America.

hitman_hatton1 · Post by **hitman_hatton1** » 28 Mar 2004, 09:31

sven ottke - the luckiest fighter ever

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 28 Mar 2004, 09:32

I have respect for Ottke don't get me wrong and i agree he has no obligation to leave Germany when he is making good money there but the one thing that riles me about him is the way he went about his work. The hugging, moaning and fouling and the fact he only had to stay upright and he took the decision, it was really frustrating to watch, as for his defences record then fair play to him but i feel some of his defences were made under false pretences.

Goz · Post by **Goz** » 28 Mar 2004, 09:33

I think Sven can probably be held up as the ultimate example of how boxers careers can be manipulated and managed in this day and age of splintered multiple almost 'regional' world titles. When I say regional I mean in the sense that you can reign for years as 'world' champion without ever leaving your country.

Fighters like Ottke and Calzaghe are almost becoming like the old fairground house fighters where the baying crowd would pay to watch them beat up victim after victim, Germany and Wales just being rival fairgrounds in this case.

I'm bored of Ottke and bored of Calzaghe, let them move on and hopefulyl we'll see some real fighters with real promoters who will let their guys fight each other, there have been some good precedents in recent years with unification matches, promoters like Warren and Kohl are holding back the sport.

Southpaw Stylist · Post by **Southpaw Stylist** » 28 Mar 2004, 09:35

Bennie, I expect better from you. Sven Ottke is a disgrace to the sport. He has had multiple gift decisions and even when he has won he hasn't looked great.

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 28 Mar 2004, 09:36

I totally agree with you Goz, how can anyone (Calzaghe included) call themselves "World Champions" when they have never boxed outside there areas, yes i know Calzaghe went to Denmark but once is still hardly enough to call himself a world champ, for his part Ottke hasn't even been over to borders! Some parts of Boxing today make me sick

Bard of Boxrec · Post by **Bard of Boxrec** » 28 Mar 2004, 09:36

yes but how valid is that title defence list when he should have lost many of them???

plus he never proved he was the champion at 168 anyway. Without beating Calzaghe its all alphabet soup.

bennie, i respect your opinions and you're a good poster but when you look at my reasons above why ottke can't be considered great, can you honestly maintain that he is? compare him to a true modern day great like Hopkins. Can't you see the difference between these fighters?

plus, i'm no calzaghe fan either but if they had fought at any time, calzaghe would have won. Far too busy, far too aggressive, far too hungry to lose to ottke. With Calzaghe's strength and chin, he would've walked straight through Ottke's pathetic attempts to counter and would've found success regularly.

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 28 Mar 2004, 09:46

I hear you on that one, style make fights and anyone who has seen the two fight must surely realise that Calzaghe would have walked through and stopped Ottke within 6 rounds.

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 28 Mar 2004, 09:54

Great fighters always find a way to win. What makes Ottke's pro record all the more remarkable is that he had a long and illustrious amateur career prior to turning pro when almost 30 years of age!
He boxed in three Olympic Games, was European amateur champion in 1996 and won 10 German senior titles (the equivalent of our ABA finals).
Compare that to our own John Lyon, who won eight ABA titles and boxed in two Olympics. John was worn out by the end of his great amateur career and retired without going pro. Ottke went on to make those 21 world title defences as a pro in a hotly-contested super-middleweight division.
Unbelievable.
And I thought the controversey in the Robin Reid fight was over the refereeing! There's no way Reid won the fight.

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 28 Mar 2004, 09:58

I didn't think he won the fight either but he could have done, did anyone see the fight last night? Kranjc had a reasonable punch record, i was disappointed he didn't go in all guns blazing considering the fact he was likely to be Ottke's last opponent, i thought he may have learned that you cannot win a decision, it has to be a KO.

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 28 Mar 2004, 10:00

Just read Ant Evans review of the fight on Secondsout.com, love this quote:

"Official scores were 120-110, 120-108 and 119-109 and, for once, it appeared that the judges in an Ottke title fight hadn't filled out their scorecards during the WBA/IBF champion's ringwalk."

Click http://www.secondsout.com/World/news.cf ... 5&cs=12843 for the full report.

dondada · Post by **dondada** » 28 Mar 2004, 10:07

Ottke should never be considered a great fighter, despite his achievements. If the fight had been reffed and scored correctly, Reid would have beaten him. Lots of posters on here have stolen my thunder. The bloke obviously has talent - the biggest of which is to realize his limitations and do little to risk his status.

The worst thing about him is that he goes against everything that is good about boxing - sportsmanship, honour, respect for yourself, your fans and your opponent.

I'm glad to see the back of him. Perhaps my least favourite fighter. Ever.