Jerry Quarry vrs. Buster Mathis/ March.29.1969/ MSG

[Brutu]

Until any video-tape or film of their bout from 1969 turns up(if ever).
I thought it would be interesting to try and reconstruct the entire fight with articles and all known photographs of the bout.hopefully someone can scan the photos down to this thread.
who knows what searching for info on this bout may turn up?

[Brutu]

here is a link to a pre-fight wire photo



http://www.josportsinc.com/catalog/view.php?id=13213

[Brutu]

Here is an interesting article about Jerry Quarry published in the June.23.1969 issue of
NEW YORK MAGAZINE
pp 33-36.


http://www.books.google.com/books?id=a9 ... pg=PA33&dq

[Brutu]

A link to an article about "The Big Bus"
from September 1964 issue of EBONY
pp 142-146.


http://www.books.google.com/books?id=Ja ... C&pg=PA142

[Brutu]

hey Klompton,maybe u explained it in another thread.
But how do you figure that the earlier Buster Mathis vs George Chuvalo bout
February.3.1969 Madison Square Garden.
still exists on video-tape?
Since it would appeared to have been also broadcast on Television Sports,Inc. too?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRtG6fSpy9w

[loaded_gloves]

In a 1995 Boxing Illustrated story a senile Jerry sits through his fights on tape, with his brothers. Mathis is among the fights they watch.

So yes, there is tape out there, but it doesn't seem to be in the fan circulation.

[klompton]

A lot fights survived that collection. Some didnt. Some were copied over. Thats just the way it is. I know people want to believe that film exists but it doesnt. I cant account for the BI article. Maybe the author was using creative license. In 1999 or 2000 there was an article about what films BigFights had in their collection and many were completely wrong. It appeared in Ring. The info in those articles is only as good as the source. I can state with a high degree of certainty that it doesnt exist and that Quarry didnt have it. This comes straight from all parties involved. I just think some people want to keep hope alive that it exists but Im comfortable betting that it wont surface in my lifetime or after. Id love to be wrong but Im pretty sure we have a better chance of seeing Greb in action than Quarry-Mathis.

[loaded_gloves]

High profile fighters often had it in their contract that they would be supplied a tape of the contest. I have a copy of the Ali/Young contract signed by Jimmy Young and both parties are to be supplied by King a tape of the contest.

I really don't know, but it seems bizarre that the writer in BI 1995 would invent Jerry and his family watching that contest. For what reason?

It seems to be a highly sought after tape with all the greedy collectors who want prestige and to revel in keeping a rare fight to themselves. For that reason I can see why the Quarry family might lie and claim they don't own a copy. Or maybe they no longer own a copy.

I would think in the immediate aftermath of the contest it would be relatively easy for the Quarry and Mathis familes to obtain a copy, and that they probably had it for a while. I certainly believe they did watch it among the other known tapes on the day of the BI article. Obviously I'm sure you have done your research thoroughly as well, so who knows?

[klompton]

High profile fighters often had it in their contract that they would be supplied a tape of the contest. I have a copy of the Ali/Young contract signed by Jimmy Young and both parties are to be supplied by King a tape of the contest.

I really don't know, but it seems bizarre that the writer in BI 1995 would invent Jerry and his family watching that contest. For what reason?

It seems to be a highly sought after tape with all the greedy collectors who want prestige and to revel in keeping a rare fight to themselves. For that reason I can see why the Quarry family might lie and claim they don't own a copy. Or maybe they no longer own a copy.

I would think in the immediate aftermath of the contest it would be relatively easy for the Quarry and Mathis familes to obtain a copy, and that they probably had it for a while. I certainly believe they did watch it among the other known tapes on the day of the BI article. Obviously I'm sure you have done your research thoroughly as well, so who knows?

The problem with this logic is that there is a disconnect in the understanding of the technology at the time. Comparing it to the Young fight is comparing apples and oranges. There was a seven year gap between the young fight and quarry mathis. Young was shot on video which was more readily available at the time and relatively inexpensive to watch. Quarry Mathis was shot on either quad or 3/4" which would have been a fortune to transfer to film (the likely medium quarry could have watched it on at home). Nobody watched quad or 3/4" at home. As ive said before. Ive spoken with themy quarries and mathis family, espn, bigfights etc. Quarry didnt have it. Its as simple as that.

[Brutu]

I really don't know, but it seems bizarre that the writer in BI 1995 would invent Jerry and his family watching that contest. For what reason?

It could have been for artistic license by the writer.
As with the fights with Thad Spencer,Mac Foster,Ron Lyle and Earnie Shavers,
Quarry's fight with Buster Mathis was just another one
of those fights that Jerry Quarry just wasn't supposed to win(but he did).

[Brutu]

Home video recorders could be purchased as early as 1965.
Sony,Ampex and RCA brands.
People were watching movies recorded on video as far back as 1967.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Videocassette_recorder

[klompton]

You are talking about an incredible minority first of all. However, more to the point, the fight was not recorded on video.

You can beat this thing to death but until you or anyone else comes up with better information than has been provided to me by the Quarry family, Mathis family, BigFights, and ESPN, I'll stick with what I know. Not some ridiculous supposition that maybe Jerry Quarry owned one of the very first video recorders and somehow recorded the fight (2 years before the general public had them). Or that he somehow got a quad dupe of the fight and either spent a fortune on the equipment necessary to watch it or spent a fortune on having it transferred to film so he could watch it. No offense but its bullshit supposition which is not supported by anything. MSG had these fights preserved on Quad or 3/4". No person would have had the equipment to watch these just lying around as it was very big and very expensive. Similarly to transfer it would have been prohibitive costwise. So the idea that Jerry had this fight given to him by MSG or a promoter is out, unless you think he just wanted to have a tape he couldnt use sitting around. That collection was housed in storage and it is on record that this particular fight was destroyed in a fire at the storage facility along with others. These are cold, hard facts that I have documentation for. So after that point there was no way for anyone to have gotten the fight because it was it literally up in smoke. As Ive said many times Ive spoken to the families of both men and neither have or have had the film. Some people choose to believe that the Quarrys had it but refused to let it out. Ridiculous. The Quarrys were actively selling all of the footage they had on Jerry up until a few years ago. Why would they keep this film, what was supposedly one of his best fights, to themselves when they were willing to let out everything else including footage that showed Jerry in a less than glorious light? Its beyond reason. The Mathis family doesnt have it either. Ive spoken with Buster and Im convinced of that fact. Ive offered big money to anyone who could produce it and nobody can. Ive made the same offer to both families and sweetened the deal with a lot of footage on both men that neither have ever seen before. Still nothing. If they were lying and actually had it and were keeping it for some reason they would have let it out. But of course that gets to the problem of how they would have gotten it in the first place and how they would have been able to to transfer it to watchable form. I had entertained the idea that maybe, just maybe, the family had filmed the fight live ringside via bootleg 8mm or 16mm. But the person who lied and said he had a tape of the fight stated that it had don dunphy commentary, implying that it was a studio broadcast and as such impossible for him to have in that form. It basically comes down to what you WANT to believe. I always prefer to rely on the facts as I have them, not a perfect storm of what-ifs that sound fanciful at best. MAYBE there was a boxing fan who just happened to be an A/V bug in 1969. And MAYBE he just happened to spend a small fortune on an expiremental VR from Britain. And IF he had it converted to work in the United States he MIGHT have recorded the Quarry-Mathis fight. And SOMEHOW it got into the hands of the Quarry family (who say they never had it) and SOMEHOW it managed to survive 50 years and multiple generational copies to the present day. So that somebody out there has a watchable copy of it. Im reminded of the saying: You can wish in one hand and shit in the other and see which fills up first.

A couple of other problems: 1. The early VRs recorded only in black and white. It wasnt until well after 1969 that they recorded in color. Big problem with the guys story who has perpetrated this myth, he described the tape as being in color. 2. These early VRs had a far more limited recording duration, i.e. they could not record a full fight on one tape. 3. They were reel to reel. Ever play with a reel to reel video? Lets just say it isnt suited to longevity. Ever have to rewind a vcr tape that has been pulled out from the casette and then replay it and see how screwed up that portion is? Imagine having to do that every time you watch something on reel to reel VR with no tracking. Again, this is beside the point that few people had these machines at the time as film was still the perferred method of watching old movies etc (everyone had a screen and an 8 or 16mm projector). VCRs werent even test marketed until after the Quarry-Mathis fight was held. Of course the is also the problem of conversion to modern format from one of those old rare VRs (have you ever seen one? I didnt think so) and its survival to the present.

[Brutu]

This fight happened November.16. 1971
Jerry Quarry vrs Jack Bodell,
but I always curious if this was from a
home video recording taped right off someone at home's telly from the live BBC broadcast?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dfypx1zTRuQ



here it is again in colour(taken from a master video-tape from the BBC archives?).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ym_-eH9nujk

[klompton]

The BBC regularly taped their programs but they often reused or destroyed tapes. Im not sure if they used VT, Quad, or 3/4" but that would be an issue as well. Research the history of Dr. Who, its a big issue with the fans of that show. Its highly doubtful they would have played the Quarry-Mathis fight. This fight was against a Brit at Wembly which made it something to watch over there. Also, the BBC is/was notorious for keeping its collection to itself. Ive often wondered exactly what they have boxing-wise in their collection. Its supposed to pretty extensive.

[Brutu]

I always wondered if the referee's of high profile boxing matches
ever collected video-tapes of the fights that they had done,
if only to study them?
The referee of Quarry-Mathis was Johnny Colan of NYC.
Have you tried that route in tracking a copy down?

[klompton]

It doesnt matter who you track down. The only version of that fight that would have been out there at the time would have been in a format that would have been useless to the average person due to the cost of the equipment necessary to view it or transfer it.

[loaded_gloves]

Klompton, it's a great point you raise with the format it was recorded in. I'm not disagreeing with you at all, I believe you. However, I would add that using that logic it would mean no fights whatsoever from that timeframe would have survived - which we know is nonsense.

Huge amounts of contests from that era, recorded on that same format, are available. Not to say Quarry/Mathis survived, but saying no one had the technology to use Quarry/Mathis would mean Quarry wouldn't even have Ellis, Frazier, Chuvalo, Doyle et al.

[loaded_gloves]

Ah I just read your bit about the fire.

I will have to reread that old BI article and see who wrote it.

[klompton]

No the Madison Square Garden company had this footage. Markson worked for them and it was in a broadcast format which is how it was able to be shown prior to the Frazier fight. The properties of the Madison Square Garden Corporation belonged to the company. Markson didnt own that film anymore than the CEO of American Airlines owns their jets.

Loaded, yes the fire is why this fight in particular, and some others do not exist. Of course there are other fights that exist from the era but the point about the format on which this fight was originally preserved is specific to this promotional outfit, not a fight held in say Los Angeles, or promoted by a different promotional company. The events sorrounding the demise of this fight are unique (somewhat) which is what makes the lie told by the guy who said he had it even more glaring.

[loaded_gloves]

No the Madison Square Garden company had this footage. Markson worked for them and it was in a broadcast format which is how it was able to be shown prior to the Frazier fight. The properties of the Madison Square Garden Corporation belonged to the company. Markson didnt own that film anymore than the CEO of American Airlines owns their jets.

Loaded, yes the fire is why this fight in particular, and some others do not exist. Of course there are other fights that exist from the era but the point about the format on which this fight was originally preserved is specific to this promotional outfit, not a fight held in say Los Angeles, or promoted by a different promotional company. The events sorrounding the demise of this fight are unique (somewhat) which is what makes the lie told by the guy who said he had it even more glaring.

I think we have had discussions about this in the past. I know of the man you're referring to. Also claimed to have Jeff Merritt vs Stan Ward, in the same realm of rarity as Quarry/Mathis.

[klompton]

This is from BigFights actual records that I have:

Quarry, J. vs. Mathis (DESTROYED) Jerry Quarry Buster Mathis 3/24/1969 New York, NY Madison Square Garden Quarry UD-10

Some select others that listed under the same circumstances:

Cokes vs. Harris (DESTROYED) Curtis Cokes Joe Harris 3/31/1967 New York, NY Madison Square Garden Harris UD-10

Griffith vs. Gonzalez II (DESTROYED) Emile Griffith Manuel Gonzalez 12/10/1965 New York, NY Madison Square Garden Griffith UD-15

Griffith vs. Benvenuti III (DESTROYED) Emile Griffith Nino Benvenuti 3/4/1968 New York, NY Madison Square Garden Benvenuti UD-15

Luckily for us the third Griffith-Benvenuti fight was broadcast overseas due to the international nature of the bout and was preserved in Europe on film (although its black and white, not color as the original broadcast recording in the US would have been).

[Brutu]

several different newspaper accounts of the result of the bout.


http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=Ob ... 5826654&dq


http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=Rm ... 2904991&dq


http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=Mn ... 5680187&dq

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=53 ... 4870357&dq

[yancey]

I don't understand why Buster was a 12-5 favorite in this fight.

re: Quarry's pink trunks worn in the fight. I vaguely recall those trunks along with matching robe being up for sale at some boxing memorabilia site some years ago.

[klompton]

Because Mathis was coming off a big win against Chuvalo and Quarry had not really had a meaningful fight since his loss to Ellis in which he was roasted by the press.

[Brutu]

Buster Mathis was a 2-1 betting favourite going into the bout.
Even though Quarry was ranked higher at #2 WBA(#4 by RING magazine)
Mathis ranked #6 by both.
It was figured that not only did Mathis have the size,weight and reach advantage he was also considered faster and a better boxer
with 6 straight wins going into the fight with Quarry
-Buster Mathis
-height- 6 ft 3"
-weight-232 lbs
-reach-76 inches

-Jerry Quarry
-height- 6ft 1"
-weight-198 lb
-reach-72 inches

here is the newspaper article from the day of the bout-

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=yk ... 1732423&dq