1967 NCR-315 Computer Tournament Results

[HomicideHenry]

First Round of The Tournament

Jack Dempsey vs. Jim Corbett, KO 7th Dempsey winner

John L. Sullivan vs. Jim Braddock, W15 Sullivan winner

Joe Louis vs. Jess Willard, KO 15th Louis winner

Bob Fitzsimmons vs. Jack Sharkey, W15 Fitzsimmons winner

Max Baer vs. Jack Johnson, W15 Baer winner

Rocky Marciano vs. Gene Tunney, W15 Marciano winner

Jim Jefferies vs. Jersey Joe Walcott, KO 10th Jefferies winner

Max Schmeling vs. Cassius Clay, W15 Clay winner


Quarter-Final Round of The Tournament

Jack Dempsey vs. John L. Sullivan, KO 7th Dempsey winner

Joe Louis vs. Bob Fitzsimmons, TKO 10th Louis winner

Max Baer vs. Rocky Marciano, TKO 13th Marciano winner

Jim Jefferies vs. Classius Clay, W15 Jefferies winner


Semi-Final Round of The Tournament

Jack Dempsey vs. Joe Louis, W15 Dempsey winner

Rocky Marciano vs. Jim Jeffries, TKO 14th Marciano winner


Final Round of The Tournament

Rocky Marciano vs. Jack Dempsey, KO 13th Marciano winner



What do you think of the tournament results, and who do you think would have won the initial fights and so on and so forth? Jesus bless.

[Ambling Alp II]

In the first round, don't see Max Baer winning a 15-round decision over Johnson. Baer would only have a remote puncher's chance. Willard lasting until the 15th round against Louis is a stretch, but at least they had Louis winning.
The rest of the first round results are realistic.
Fitzsimmons-Sharkey is the hardest to call, and probably would have been the most competitive fight in the first round, assuming the inconsistent Sharkey fought close to his best.

In the quarterfinals, Clay(Ali) would have beaten Jeffries. Had they had Johnson win his first round match, Johnson would have gone up against Marciano, which would have been very interesting.

In the semifinals, Louis probably would have beaten Dempsey.The other semi final probably would not have happened; instead of Jeffries-Marciano, it quite possibly would have been Johnson-Clay.

Finals would have been Louis-Clay instead of Marciano-Dempsey.

[Boilermaker]

John L Sullivan seems to have got the worst of this computer tournament. No way Braddock Sullivan goes the distance. I think it almost certain that the computer ranked the old and dissasipated Sullivan who lost to Corbett and produced the miracle against Kilrain, considering him a skillless brawler who had to wear his fighters out. He was far from this in his prime.

[Ambling Alp II]

I think it is hard to rate Sullivan and a lot of people simply dismiss him. Braddock did have a good chin so maybe he lasts a long time, even goes the distance. At least, they had him winning, which is the most important thing.

[HomicideHenry]

In regards to Sullivan, even in 1967 they didn't seem to have great resources or opinions to adequately rate the man. Jess Willard said "What Sullivan did was a completely different business than the fighting they do today so I don't know." And the recollections of Nat Fleischer were from when he was a young boy and seen a grossly out of shape and grey haired John L. SUllivan giving exhibitions, saying "All Sullivan had was tremendous hitting power and little else." It's a wonder he was able to win a single fight on the tournament.

People tend to overshadow Sullivan's bare knuckle fights over his true legacy which was the Marquis of Queensbury rules, being champion under those rules for seven years (12 altogether). He was the innovator of the rules, its practices and promotion and even was the man who selected what kind of gloves to wear in matches. Considering his dominance under two different set of rules, over a decade's time, his reign and career is comparable to any of the other all time greats in history. The only disadvantage he had was he never came around during the film era and records were not always kept as well as they are today.

As far as the tournament goes, I think it should have went like this:

Dempsey/Corbett ends up with Dempsey winning a 15 round decision

John L. Sullivan wins a decision over Jim Braddock

Joe Louis KO's Jess Willard between four and six rounds

Bob Fitzsimmons wins a decision over Jack Sharkey (which he did in the tournament)

Jack Johnson wins a decision over Max Baer

Rocky Marciano wins a decision over Gene Tunney (which he did in the tournament)

James Jefferies wins a decision over Jersey Joe Walcott

Cassius Clay wins a decision over Max Schmeling (which he did in the tournament)

Where in the Quarter-Finals we would see....

Jack Dempsey scoring a TKO in the championship rounds over Sullivan (cuts)

Joe Louis KO's Bob Fitzsimmons in between seven or eight rounds

Rocky Marciano manages to decision Jack Johnson in a razor thin fight

Cassius Clay decision James Jefferies

And then in the semi-final round we would see....

Dempsey scoring a TKO victory over Joe Louis, where both men hit the canvas, ends inside of seven rounds

Cassius Clay decisions Rocky Marciano in a razor thin close fight

And in the finals we would see of course Jack Dempsey versus Cassius Clay

[Giancarlo]

Jesus bless.

[Mr E]

First, a couple comments on the initial set up.

I liked the way Woroner selected the field -- he sent survey cards to a couple hundred sportswriters and boxing people and used the results to identify his 16 entrants. Without going into why they were under-rated at the time, I imagine most of us believe that Sonny Liston and Ezzard Charles should have been included. But, who should they replace. Personally, I would remove Jim Braddock and John L. Sullivan. For Braddock, I think he's the least talented fighter in the discussion. For Sullivan, since there's no film of him, and since most of his prime was spent fighting w/out gloves, I think it's just too hard to evaluate him. So, for my money, Liston & Charles should replace Sullivan & Braddock. Fortunately, Sullivan & Braddock were matched together, so it makes the substitution easy.

Moving to the pairings, I think it was a mistake to match Rocky Marciano & Gene Tunney (2 potential all-time winners) in the 1st round. Going hand-in-hand with that, I think it was a mistake to match Bob Fitzsimmons & Jack Sharkey (2 long-shots) in the 1st round as well. For the most interest, I would have matched Fiz w/ Tunney and Sharkey w/ the Rock.

So, I would modify the 1st round pairings like so:

Sonny Liston v. Ezzard Charles
Jack Dempsey v. Jim Corbett
Muhammad Ali v. Max Schmeling
Jim Jeffries v. Jersey Joe Walcott
Joe Louis v. Jess Willard
Jack Johnson v. Max Baer
Rocky Marciano v. Jack Sharkey
Gene Tunney v. Bob Fitzsimmons

1st-Round Results:
Liston TKO7 over Charles
Dempsey KO5 over Corbett
Ali TKO14 over Schmeling
Jeffires KO11 over Walcott
Louis TKO6 over Willard
Johnson W15 over Baer
Marciano KO12 over Sharkey
Tunney W15 over Fitzsimmons

Quarter-Finals:
Dempsey TKO8 over Liston
Ali W15 over Jeffries
Louis KO14 over Johnson
Marciano W15 over Tunney (pick 'em, could go either way)

Semi-Finals:
Ali W15 over Dempsey
Louis W15 over Marciano (closer than many suspect)

Final:
Ali W15 over Louis

[The Great John L]

For Sullivan, since there's no film of him, and since most of his prime was spent fighting w/out gloves, I think it's just too hard to evaluate him.

True about the film, but probably 95% of Sullivans matches were fought with gloves.

[man]

First, a couple comments on the initial set up.

I liked the way Woroner selected the field -- he sent survey cards to a couple hundred sportswriters and boxing people and used the results to identify his 16 entrants. Without going into why they were under-rated at the time, I imagine most of us believe that Sonny Liston and Ezzard Charles should have been included. But, who should they replace. Personally, I would remove Jim Braddock and John L. Sullivan. For Braddock, I think he's the least talented fighter in the discussion. For Sullivan, since there's no film of him, and since most of his prime was spent fighting w/out gloves, I think it's just too hard to evaluate him. So, for my money, Liston & Charles should replace Sullivan & Braddock. Fortunately, Sullivan & Braddock were matched together, so it makes the substitution easy.

Moving to the pairings, I think it was a mistake to match Rocky Marciano & Gene Tunney (2 potential all-time winners) in the 1st round. Going hand-in-hand with that, I think it was a mistake to match Bob Fitzsimmons & Jack Sharkey (2 long-shots) in the 1st round as well. For the most interest, I would have matched Fiz w/ Tunney and Sharkey w/ the Rock.

So, I would modify the 1st round pairings like so:

Sonny Liston v. Ezzard Charles
Jack Dempsey v. Jim Corbett
Muhammad Ali v. Max Schmeling
Jim Jeffries v. Jersey Joe Walcott
Joe Louis v. Jess Willard
Jack Johnson v. Max Baer
Rocky Marciano v. Jack Sharkey
Gene Tunney v. Bob Fitzsimmons

1st-Round Results:
Liston TKO7 over Charles
Dempsey KO5 over Corbett
Ali TKO14 over Schmeling
Jeffires KO11 over Walcott
Louis TKO6 over Willard
Johnson W15 over Baer
Marciano KO12 over Sharkey
Tunney W15 over Fitzsimmons

Quarter-Finals:
Dempsey TKO8 over Liston
Ali W15 over Jeffries
Louis KO14 over Johnson
Marciano W15 over Tunney (pick 'em, could go either way)

Semi-Finals:
Ali W15 over Dempsey
Louis W15 over Marciano (closer than many suspect)

Final:
Ali W15 over Louis

i like this version more. though i would see louis win
the final, yet it would be pretty competitive. the original
version of dempsey vs marciano seemed biased to the
sentimental hero dempsey and rocky's "0".

[SenorPipino]

Wasn't this the "computer" radio tournament that angered Ali so much that he threatened to sue over the outcome? To placate him, the Ali-Marciano closed-circuit matchup was then put together and released in 1969.
Ali couldn't have liked that result with Marciano winning by KO, but he reportedly did get revenge on Marciano in the version released in England.
The outcomes may have been designed with politics in mind as Ali was rather unpopular at the time in the U.S. but was more revered by the Brits.

[Mr E]

For Sullivan, since there's no film of him, and since most of his prime was spent fighting w/out gloves, I think it's just too hard to evaluate him.

True about the film, but probably 95% of Sullivans matches were fought with gloves.

Hmmm... learn something new every day.

[The Great John L]

For Sullivan, since there's no film of him, and since most of his prime was spent fighting w/out gloves, I think it's just too hard to evaluate him.

True about the film, but probably 95% of Sullivans matches were fought with gloves.

Hmmm... learn something new every day.

He preferred gloves to bareknuckle because he was an extremely hard hitter and the gloves helped to protect his hands.

[Ezzard]

Wasn't this the "computer" radio tournament that angered Ali so much that he threatened to sue over the outcome? To placate him, the Ali-Marciano closed-circuit matchup was then put together and released in 1969.
Ali couldn't have liked that result with Marciano winning by KO, but he reportedly did get revenge on Marciano in the version released in England.
The outcomes may have been designed with politics in mind as Ali was rather unpopular at the time in the U.S. but was more revered by the Brits.

They knew the result. And many endings were filmed. Depending on the area depended on which version the screened.