Enzo Calzaghe

[lefty]

Bit classless I think ........ Enzo Calzaghe MBE ‏@EnzoCalzaghe 18m
Carl Froch has finally convinced me he is an average World Champion. All the hype was fake. So no more talk about him boxing Joe!

[expe]

True though, Saturday put all doubt to bed about how a fight between the two would have gone and Froch and McCracken have never been adverse to having digs at the Calzaghe camp.

[Tomasino]

The best Calzaghe, with hands in decent shape, vs best Froch and Calzaghe wins a wide UD. If Joe broke his hands in the fight he might be given a rough night.

I think the effect of the knockdown punch on Froch should not be underestimated. He was fighting on willpower and instinct for the first 6 rounds!

[lefty]

True though, Saturday put all doubt to bed about how a fight between the two would have gone and Froch and McCracken have never been adverse to having digs at the Calzaghe camp.

I've always thought Calzaghe would of won that fight but I still think Froch has been better than a "average world champion".

[squared circle]

At least Carl had the balls to get out on the road and fight live opponents.

Eubank when he had nothing to lose really, Lacy at home, Kessler at home. OK Hopkins on road but Joe arguably lost that on some cards.

Froch said himself he'd have to ko Joe to win, and joe's whiskers meant that is highly unlikely. But, to call froch average is a bit petty.

[JediKnight]

The moments that GG twisted and turned Carl were an indication of what Calzaghe would have done to him. I think it would have been a Lacy-esc master class that Carl never came back from.

But we will never know so we will continue to discuss it :)

[Londonirish]

At least Carl had the balls to get out on the road and fight live opponents

We'll see if he's got the Balls to fight GG again, IMO he won't!

Joe beat him by a wide UD

[lefty]

At least Carl had the balls to get out on the road and fight live opponents

We'll see if he's got the Balls to fight GG again, IMO he won't!

Joe beat him by a wide UD

Joe beat who?

[Londonirish]

At least Carl had the balls to get out on the road and fight live opponents

We'll see if he's got the Balls to fight GG again, IMO he won't!

Joe beat him by a wide UD

Joe beat who?

im missing an "S". Joe beat`s by a Wide UD

like the rest thinks.

[lefty]

At least Carl had the balls to get out on the road and fight live opponents

We'll see if he's got the Balls to fight GG again, IMO he won't!

Joe beat him by a wide UD

Joe beat who?

im missing an "S". Joe beat`s by a Wide UD

like the rest thinks.[/quote]

Cool. I was just a bit confused lol

[hurlock]

How old was joe when a shot jones jnr put him on his butt???
I'd back jc to of out pointed froch as would most. But froch gets more respect from me for flying the nest & taking on the best at that time, he called out joe yes but he took on groves & gave him the shot.froch had every right to fight calzaghe & atleast he had the decency to give us what we wanted! Any decent or close fight joe had he never gave us a return

[mickey1975]

At least Carl had the balls to get out on the road and fight live opponents.

Eubank when he had nothing to lose really, Lacy at home, Kessler at home. OK Hopkins on road but Joe arguably lost that on some cards.

Froch said himself he'd have to ko Joe to win, and joe's whiskers meant that is highly unlikely. But, to call froch average is a bit petty.

I think you mean he had no option but to go on the road. First voluntary he got, we got Mack in Nottingham.

[lefty]

At least Carl had the balls to get out on the road and fight live opponents.

Eubank when he had nothing to lose really, Lacy at home, Kessler at home. OK Hopkins on road but Joe arguably lost that on some cards.

Froch said himself he'd have to ko Joe to win, and joe's whiskers meant that is highly unlikely. But, to call froch average is a bit petty.

I think you mean he had no option but to go on the road. First voluntary he got, we got Mack in Nottingham.

I think you're being harsh though Mickey.

[mickey1975]

I don't. Mick lost ITV, the Taylor bout wasn't even live in the uk. Joining the S6 guaranteed him work. When he came out of it, with no title, he had to roll the dice with the Bute fight. After his win, he got his first opportunity with good tv backing to pick a fighter to box at home, we got Mack...

[Finn]

Calzaghes style beats anyone at smw at his best imo the only person I would even consider could have beaten him is RJJ. He was tough as hell as durable as froch, he had the same engine as froch possibly even better, he never gassed or had his eyes glazed from a punch, he had the hand speed of groves probably even faster, and on top of that he had fantastic adaptability, a real boxing brain, and he had heart.

But froch fights the best and calzghe didnt for much of his career. Froch is not an average champion.

I also think calzaghe would beat ward fairly handily.

[lefty]

I don't. Mick lost ITV, the Taylor bout wasn't even live in the uk. Joining the S6 guaranteed him work. When he came out of it, with no title, he had to roll the dice with the Bute fight. After his win, he got his first opportunity with good tv backing to pick a fighter to box at home, we got Mack...

All the points you make are valid but there's no denying he's been in with the best and that deserves respect in itself. He didnt have to fight Groves. He could of vacated that belt and kept the WBA one.

[mickey1975]

I don't. Mick lost ITV, the Taylor bout wasn't even live in the uk. Joining the S6 guaranteed him work. When he came out of it, with no title, he had to roll the dice with the Bute fight. After his win, he got his first opportunity with good tv backing to pick a fighter to box at home, we got Mack...

All the points you make are valid but there's no denying he's been in with the best and that deserves respect in itself. He didnt have to fight Groves. He could of vacated that belt and kept the WBA one.

He thought it was an easy fight.

[expe]

I don't. Mick lost ITV, the Taylor bout wasn't even live in the uk. Joining the S6 guaranteed him work. When he came out of it, with no title, he had to roll the dice with the Bute fight. After his win, he got his first opportunity with good tv backing to pick a fighter to box at home, we got Mack...

All the points you make are valid but there's no denying he's been in with the best and that deserves respect in itself. He didnt have to fight Groves. He could of vacated that belt and kept the WBA one.

We all know that WBA belt means nothing though and ducking Groves wouldn't look good on his 'warrior' image.

[expe]

At least Carl had the balls to get out on the road and fight live opponents.

Eubank when he had nothing to lose really, Lacy at home, Kessler at home. OK Hopkins on road but Joe arguably lost that on some cards.

Froch said himself he'd have to ko Joe to win, and joe's whiskers meant that is highly unlikely. But, to call froch average is a bit petty.

I think you mean he had no option but to go on the road. First voluntary he got, we got Mack in Nottingham.

He didn't always fight in peoples backyards either.

Ward - AC, right across the US from California
Abraham - German based Armenian in Finland
Johnson - Miami based Jamaican in Atlantic City
Taylor - Well over a thousand miles from home
Kessler - The only fight where he went right into the backyard of the opponent

So, while he did go on the road, he wasn't walking into hostile atmospheres where the opponent had big support, the Kessler fight aside.

[whiskey]

At least Carl had the balls to get out on the road and fight live opponents.

Eubank when he had nothing to lose really, Lacy at home, Kessler at home. OK Hopkins on road but Joe arguably lost that on some cards.

Froch said himself he'd have to ko Joe to win, and joe's whiskers meant that is highly unlikely. But, to call froch average is a bit petty.

I think you mean he had no option but to go on the road. First voluntary he got, we got Mack in Nottingham.

He didn't always fight in peoples backyards either.

Ward - AC, right across the US from California
Abraham - German based Armenian in Finland
Johnson - Miami based Jamaican in Atlantic City
Taylor - Well over a thousand miles from home
Kessler - The only fight where he went right into the backyard of the opponent

So, while he did go on the road, he wasn't walking into hostile atmospheres where the opponent had big support, the Kessler fight aside.

Let me see you rattle off how far away Joe's opponents were from home when he fought them all ?

Lacy? Kessler ? MgerMkertian ? Evans Ashira ?

[DMA1987]

I don't. Mick lost ITV, the Taylor bout wasn't even live in the uk. Joining the S6 guaranteed him work. When he came out of it, with no title, he had to roll the dice with the Bute fight. After his win, he got his first opportunity with good tv backing to pick a fighter to box at home, we got Mack...

All the points you make are valid but there's no denying he's been in with the best and that deserves respect in itself. He didnt have to fight Groves. He could of vacated that belt and kept the WBA one.

We all know that WBA belt means nothing though and ducking Groves wouldn't look good on his 'warrior' image.

How did getting up and coming back from a shot which would have put most fighters to sleep do for his 'warrior' image?

However much you don't like him, you can't argue that the bloke is an absolute warrior.

[TheCobra]

How did getting up and coming back from a shot which would have put most fighters to sleep do for his 'warrior' image?

However much you don't like him, you can't argue that the bloke is an absolute warrior.

So true, people are talking so much shite about Froch it's untrue. He's got a chin made of granite and can dig really deep in a fight even when others might give up he just keeps on coming. That takes massive bollocks, massive self-belief and reserves of mental strength and massive reserves of stamina, a true warrior. People don't like him so they're saying any old shite now.

[expe]

I think you mean he had no option but to go on the road. First voluntary he got, we got Mack in Nottingham.

He didn't always fight in peoples backyards either.

Ward - AC, right across the US from California
Abraham - German based Armenian in Finland
Johnson - Miami based Jamaican in Atlantic City
Taylor - Well over a thousand miles from home
Kessler - The only fight where he went right into the backyard of the opponent

So, while he did go on the road, he wasn't walking into hostile atmospheres where the opponent had big support, the Kessler fight aside.

Let me see you rattle off how far away Joe's opponents were from home when he fought them all ?

Lacy? Kessler ? MgerMkertian ? Evans Ashira ?

I'm not knocking him going on the road, just pointing out it wasn't the rough, rugged mountain road with steep edges that it's made out to be. Joe didn't have to go on the road because he was better supported and more attractive for TV, added to being uneasy when flying, especially transatlantic after 9/11.

Calzaghe did go on the road at times and of 46 fights, only 18 were in Wales. The purse bids for the Mark Delaney fight went against him and plenty of fighters would have gone in a different direction, but he went to Essex and took him out. Reid was closer to home than him, as was Woodhall, he went to Veit's backyard for the rematch and Hopkins and Jones Jr were on the road. So, while he fought at home more than Carl, he didn't always have home advantage, although he didn't go to anywhere hostile apart from Delaney.

[squared circle]

I think fighting in England is a bit of a stretch to say Joe went out on the road tbh!! Amazing how his dislike of flying was allayed by the dollars for fighting b-hop and rjj as well.

I like both fighters, and Joe would win 9 out of 10 I reckon. I still think froch is to be admired though.

Part of me wonders if Joe is tempted at all to comeback based on sat night.....

[NazNaci1]

Not entering the 'Who would have won -Joe vs Carl' debate as that has been done to death.

What has to be considered, in my opinion, is that Joe's career came on the heels of Hamed's, Collins, Benn and Eubank. All names that featured on Terrestrial TV and then on SKY. Boxing was bigger because of this on SKY and W@rren was the main player, with Hearn retreating to other things.

So Joe's link up with W@rren was great for both but much moreso Calzaghe. He didn't travel, earned decent money and fought quite low key, poor opponents, in the main...all for the newly established WBO title! That was down to W@rren and not because of Joe. Nor was it down to Joe's skills or popularity, as W@rren has stated numerous times.

So to criticise Carl because he had no choice to travel and use Joe's career as some kind of beacon to measure it against is completely wrong. Joe did not have to do any of what Carl did because of the fighters who went before him, W@reen kept his 0 going, SKY loved that and there were more mainstream fans paying into that.

Carl had to travel because SKY were becoming tired / disillusioned with the W@ren methods, less people interested (joe public) and with C5 / Mick, Eddie Hearn returning etc.....Froch and W@rren had less bargaining power. W@rren walks or gets told to sling his hook and Froch has to go via different road as SKY ain't interested.

Joe once said in an interview with Boxing News that he wants to win proper titles, like the WBC, not the nonsensical WBO. So what does he do?....Carl says he won't ever avoid a challenge, like Joe avoided him, so what does he do?

And people still question this guy?

As for Enzo, yeah he did well for a period but hasn't been able to replicate that since. Just a bit of envy, on his part, I think.