Finally something worth reading!
I especially enjoyed this part......"E7MlKxCLKWMKA+4FOb4"
and yes....I read it all....Didn't want to miss the overall context and sub themes.
'I lost to Lorenzo Zanon, and got a Title Shot'
Re: 'I lost to Lorenzo Zanon, and got a Title Shot'
BoxBuzz wrote:Finally something worth reading!
I especially enjoyed this part......"E7MlKxCLKWMKA+4FOb4"
and yes....I read it all....Didn't want to miss the overall context and sub themes.
I thought the following was particularly poignant; it showed a deep understanding of the concept but was explained on a truly human level:
xAAWAQEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAQL/xAAYEQEBAQEBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATERIf
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keithmoonhangover
- Cruiserweight
- Posts: 16886
- Joined: 16 Sep 2010, 10:42
Re: 'I lost to Lorenzo Zanon, and got a Title Shot'
Isn't all this Ali bashing, just trolling?
Re: 'I lost to Lorenzo Zanon, and got a Title Shot'
This!Il Duce wrote:Spanish Love
'Not sure if Muhammad Ali wanted to fight the Spaniard - Alfredo Evangelista, or take him out on a date.'
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[/img]
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keithmoonhangover
- Cruiserweight
- Posts: 16886
- Joined: 16 Sep 2010, 10:42
Re: 'I lost to Lorenzo Zanon, and got a Title Shot'
Does all of this Ali-bashing give something to your life?
Re: 'I lost to Lorenzo Zanon, and got a Title Shot'
I just spent the last hour looking at the Google News Archive for Muhammad Ali, from late 1976 to late 1977. There was lots of intrigue and dealings going on in heavyweight boxing that year.
First, Ali vs. Bobick was supposed to happen - there was even a breach of contract lawsuit against Ali for not going through with the fight.
Norton was supposed to fight Ron Lyle in February.
Then there was talk of Ali vs. Boudreaux, Holmes, or Mike Schutte in South Korea in May, with Ali-Foreman II in September (which was blown when Foreman lost to Young).
Then Ali-Zanon.
Holmes was supposed to fight Stan Ward in April; that fight was called off at the last minute due to the US Championship fiasco.
Finally Ali-Evangelista fell into place, with all the drama Il Duce has posted about.
Ali was supposed to fight the winner of the Norton-Bobick fight in September, but Norton was perhaps a bit too convincing in kayoing Bobick.
Then Ali was supposed to fight Alfio Righetti in July.
Then in July there briefly was talk of an Ali-Lyle rematch, as the proposed Ali-Shavers fight was coming up against hurdles.
Meanwhile, Norton-Young in a 12-rounder is announced, along with Don King's "Night of the Heavyweights".
In August Joe Frazier stirs up talk of a 4th Ali fight.
Then talk of Ali-Holmes in November if Ali comes out of the Shavers fight okay.
Then Spinks is brought up, if he can get past Righetti.
Great stuff. 15-plus years after first getting internet access, I'm still amazed at how easy it is to do some quick research.
First, Ali vs. Bobick was supposed to happen - there was even a breach of contract lawsuit against Ali for not going through with the fight.
Norton was supposed to fight Ron Lyle in February.
Then there was talk of Ali vs. Boudreaux, Holmes, or Mike Schutte in South Korea in May, with Ali-Foreman II in September (which was blown when Foreman lost to Young).
Then Ali-Zanon.
Holmes was supposed to fight Stan Ward in April; that fight was called off at the last minute due to the US Championship fiasco.
Finally Ali-Evangelista fell into place, with all the drama Il Duce has posted about.
Ali was supposed to fight the winner of the Norton-Bobick fight in September, but Norton was perhaps a bit too convincing in kayoing Bobick.
Then Ali was supposed to fight Alfio Righetti in July.
Then in July there briefly was talk of an Ali-Lyle rematch, as the proposed Ali-Shavers fight was coming up against hurdles.
Meanwhile, Norton-Young in a 12-rounder is announced, along with Don King's "Night of the Heavyweights".
In August Joe Frazier stirs up talk of a 4th Ali fight.
Then talk of Ali-Holmes in November if Ali comes out of the Shavers fight okay.
Then Spinks is brought up, if he can get past Righetti.
Great stuff. 15-plus years after first getting internet access, I'm still amazed at how easy it is to do some quick research.
Re: 'I lost to Lorenzo Zanon, and got a Title Shot'
common practice......
Re: 'I lost to Lorenzo Zanon, and got a Title Shot'
Thank you, sir. Again, I marvel at how easy it is to find information these days via old press reports and such.
One thing that we have to keep in mind when analyzing boxing history is that boxing is a business; risk versus reward is always taken into consideration by the people in control. While not exciting from a fan's standpoint, I have to give credit to Ali's people for getting him over $2,000,000 for a low-risk opponent like Evangelista. Too bad that there was such manipulation (ratings, records, etc.) in staging this fight. Zanon would've been (slightly) more credible at this stage. Any insight, Il Duce, as to why the Zanon fight didn't happen? Ali's people too worried about facing another Jimmy Young-type slickster, perhaps?
Had Foreman beat Young in March, there was no way we would've seen Ali-Foreman II in September. It would have been Foreman-Norton II in November, then Foreman-Holmes in June 1978.
One thing that we have to keep in mind when analyzing boxing history is that boxing is a business; risk versus reward is always taken into consideration by the people in control. While not exciting from a fan's standpoint, I have to give credit to Ali's people for getting him over $2,000,000 for a low-risk opponent like Evangelista. Too bad that there was such manipulation (ratings, records, etc.) in staging this fight. Zanon would've been (slightly) more credible at this stage. Any insight, Il Duce, as to why the Zanon fight didn't happen? Ali's people too worried about facing another Jimmy Young-type slickster, perhaps?
Had Foreman beat Young in March, there was no way we would've seen Ali-Foreman II in September. It would have been Foreman-Norton II in November, then Foreman-Holmes in June 1978.
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bluerosekiller
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 71
- Joined: 15 Apr 2010, 21:17
Re: 'I lost to Lorenzo Zanon, and got a Title Shot'
I remember how noticeably Ali had slipped with regard to his skills & physical abilities since his third fight with Norton the previous September. It was so very clear that he was a diminished fighter. This, despite the fact that he was winning the bout decisively.
Even though he was in the ring with a handpicked opponent & one of the least qualified title challengers in heavyweight boxing history, it was obvious that Ali was having some difficulties with ring rust as well as his physical decline. So much so that it was probably quite fortunate that he was only in their with the befuddled novice in Evangelista & not anyone better.
Say, for instance Ron Lyle whom there were talks with concerning a rematch.
Had the Lyle who'd just beaten Joe Bugner in impressive fashion been in there with the same Ali that decisioned Evangelista, I think Lyle would have gotten revenge AND won the World Championship.
And had they gone with Zanon?
Well, it would have certainly been a more competitive fight that's for sure. As Zanon was, indeed, a rather skilled boxer who was also somewhat awkward. He didn't have any power, but he could be troublesome. Such as in his later fights in the US against the formidable trio of Ken Norton, Jerry Quarry & Larry Holmes.
Against Norton, he didn't do too much offensively, but he gave Norton a bit of a struggle through the first four rounds until Norton cut the ring off & KOd him in 5. While in his next bout Stateside he thoroughly outboxed Quarry, picthing a shutout on the judges cards until Quarry cornered him in a last ditch effort at winning, stopping the wily Italian in the 9th round.
Still, Zanon remained a force in the heavyweight division in Europe, winning the prestigious EBU title, which has always been good for a spot in the top five of the WBC rankings. Which, in turn, led to the then-very odd occurrence of a heavyweight championship bout telecast in the afternoon as part of ABC's WIDE WORLD OF SPORTS rather than in primetime. But, obviously, the network saw this as such a routine title defense that they refused to attempt to build a card around it for primetime exposure.
Still, say what you will, Zanon proved to be a more credible & capable challenger than the likes of Marvis Frazier, Scott Frank or even Leon Spinks managed to be. Not that gave Holmes any real trouble, other than extending him into the 6th round in a somewhat sloppy affair.
But again, had Zanon gotten the shot rather than Evangelista. He would surely have made Ali look bad & likely won several rounds as well. With the question being, would Ali's punches ( which had lost much of their snap & power since his last KO win against another European champion in Richard Dunn ) have been enough to drop & stop Zanon or would Ali have had to settle for yet another decision in what would likely have been another of the "too close for comfort" variety?
My opinion?
Judging by his subsequent win over Earnie Shavers, specifically his wobbling of Shavers in round 15 & his ability to repeatedly stun Leon Spinks in the latter rounds of their first fight, I'd have to say that Ali, maybe behind on points, would have had just enough left to get Zanon out of there in the 11th round.
So, at the end of the day, Ali's people did the right thing by pushing for Evangelista rather than going with the previously agreed upon Duane Bobick ( whom then, unbeaten at 38-0, would have been ALL wrong for Ali who was coming off of his punishing 15 rounder with Norton. He have been softened up for the volume punching, body belting Bobick who would have used most of the same strategies that Spinks employed on him two fights later ), Lyle or Zanon.
Sure, he'd have beaten Zanon & gotten one more KO win to his credit, but he'd have taken more abuse during the course of it than he did vs Evangelista.
Even though he was in the ring with a handpicked opponent & one of the least qualified title challengers in heavyweight boxing history, it was obvious that Ali was having some difficulties with ring rust as well as his physical decline. So much so that it was probably quite fortunate that he was only in their with the befuddled novice in Evangelista & not anyone better.
Say, for instance Ron Lyle whom there were talks with concerning a rematch.
Had the Lyle who'd just beaten Joe Bugner in impressive fashion been in there with the same Ali that decisioned Evangelista, I think Lyle would have gotten revenge AND won the World Championship.
And had they gone with Zanon?
Well, it would have certainly been a more competitive fight that's for sure. As Zanon was, indeed, a rather skilled boxer who was also somewhat awkward. He didn't have any power, but he could be troublesome. Such as in his later fights in the US against the formidable trio of Ken Norton, Jerry Quarry & Larry Holmes.
Against Norton, he didn't do too much offensively, but he gave Norton a bit of a struggle through the first four rounds until Norton cut the ring off & KOd him in 5. While in his next bout Stateside he thoroughly outboxed Quarry, picthing a shutout on the judges cards until Quarry cornered him in a last ditch effort at winning, stopping the wily Italian in the 9th round.
Still, Zanon remained a force in the heavyweight division in Europe, winning the prestigious EBU title, which has always been good for a spot in the top five of the WBC rankings. Which, in turn, led to the then-very odd occurrence of a heavyweight championship bout telecast in the afternoon as part of ABC's WIDE WORLD OF SPORTS rather than in primetime. But, obviously, the network saw this as such a routine title defense that they refused to attempt to build a card around it for primetime exposure.
Still, say what you will, Zanon proved to be a more credible & capable challenger than the likes of Marvis Frazier, Scott Frank or even Leon Spinks managed to be. Not that gave Holmes any real trouble, other than extending him into the 6th round in a somewhat sloppy affair.
But again, had Zanon gotten the shot rather than Evangelista. He would surely have made Ali look bad & likely won several rounds as well. With the question being, would Ali's punches ( which had lost much of their snap & power since his last KO win against another European champion in Richard Dunn ) have been enough to drop & stop Zanon or would Ali have had to settle for yet another decision in what would likely have been another of the "too close for comfort" variety?
My opinion?
Judging by his subsequent win over Earnie Shavers, specifically his wobbling of Shavers in round 15 & his ability to repeatedly stun Leon Spinks in the latter rounds of their first fight, I'd have to say that Ali, maybe behind on points, would have had just enough left to get Zanon out of there in the 11th round.
So, at the end of the day, Ali's people did the right thing by pushing for Evangelista rather than going with the previously agreed upon Duane Bobick ( whom then, unbeaten at 38-0, would have been ALL wrong for Ali who was coming off of his punishing 15 rounder with Norton. He have been softened up for the volume punching, body belting Bobick who would have used most of the same strategies that Spinks employed on him two fights later ), Lyle or Zanon.
Sure, he'd have beaten Zanon & gotten one more KO win to his credit, but he'd have taken more abuse during the course of it than he did vs Evangelista.