Champions Who Never Had Amateur Careers

[HomicideHenry]

One of the p4p greatest fighters of all time, and one of the top five Light Heavyweight champions in history, Billy Conn "The Pittsburgh Kid" turned pro at the age of 16 without the benefit of a amateur career, losing his first six bouts.

[scorpio83]

There were two champions who never had amateur careers. "The Camden Buzzsaw" Dwight Muhammad Qawi and "The Executioner" Bernard Hopkins.

[pbchron]

Joey Giardello never had an amateur fight, although he said he gained valuable pre pro experience in hundreds of street fights.

[Controversial]

"The Executioner" Bernard Hopkins.

Hopkins did fight as an amateur, almost a 100 fights apparently. Below extract from an interview with him

"I've been in good hands with Danny Davis, but the only thing is to have me not overdo what I have loved to do for two decades. I like to train. I like to run. I like to eat the right foods. This is a habit. It's a good when you've got good habits, it makes everybody's job easier. Of course, sometimes I have aches and pains or I have a lot of rub-in muscle cream in my medicine cabinet, but other than that, 20 years of boxing as a professional since I was nine years old as an amateur, you're going to have these things as time goes on."

[Tinnie]

Yeah i always thought Hopkins had an amatuer career....

.... what about McLarnin he'd be considered quite highly p4p and i seem to recall him jumping into the pro's quite young with no amatuer experience.... could be wrong though....


....there is someone else on the tip of my tongue i cant think of atm moment.... maybe not a elite p4per... but also started very young.... i'll think on it....


....just out of curiousity when did amatuer boxing actually begin... 1910s??? (ie... tournaments, ranking, olympics, ect.)

[darren_simion]

JCC Jr?

debate is was his title "real".

[HomicideHenry]

James J. Jeffries never had an amateur fight that I can recall either; and if I am not mistaken, I don't believe Jack Johnson did either.

[Tinnie]

James J. Jeffries never had an amateur fight that I can recall either; and if I am not mistaken, I don't believe Jack Johnson did either.

Would anyone from that era have any actual amatuer experience though.... guys like Gans and later Langford certainly wouldnt have had any....

.... travelling in the boxing booths was probobly the equivalent of an amatuer career in that era....

[HomicideHenry]

Would anyone from that era have any actual amatuer experience though.... guys like Gans and later Langford certainly wouldnt have had any....

.... travelling in the boxing booths was probobly the equivalent of an amatuer career in that era....

Well, technically, in England bareknuckle 'prizefights' were replaced with the Marquis of Queensbury rules as early as 1865, and these matches were regarded as sparring or exhibitions or amateur bouts. This thought process would remain in boxing until 1892, when Corbett defeated Sullivan and boxing with gloves on, under these set of rules, would become the standard.

In a sense, Sullivan himself had an 'amateur' record, as his career started in the late 1870's where he fought exhibitions with gloves on until turning pro in the 1880's without gloves on. But I do see what you mean, by and large, when you had men like Jimmy Wilde who fought hundreds of matches in booths before turning pro. In truth--- the booths was an outlet for amateurs/pros to continue making money, without it effecting your status as an amateur or a pro. It was the precursor to 'semipro' or 'White Collar' circuit boxing in England, and elsewhere.

[Tinnie]

Would anyone from that era have any actual amatuer experience though.... guys like Gans and later Langford certainly wouldnt have had any....

.... travelling in the boxing booths was probobly the equivalent of an amatuer career in that era....

Well, technically, in England bareknuckle 'prizefights' were replaced with the Marquis of Queensbury rules as early as 1865, and these matches were regarded as sparring or exhibitions or amateur bouts. This thought process would remain in boxing until 1892, when Corbett defeated Sullivan and boxing with gloves on, under these set of rules, would become the standard.

In a sense, Sullivan himself had an 'amateur' record, as his career started in the late 1870's where he fought exhibitions with gloves on until turning pro in the 1880's without gloves on. But I do see what you mean, by and large, when you had men like Jimmy Wilde who fought hundreds of matches in booths before turning pro. In truth--- the booths was an outlet for amateurs/pros to continue making money, without it effecting your status as an amateur or a pro. It was the precursor to 'semipro' or 'White Collar' circuit boxing in England, and elsewhere.

Cheers for clearing that up a little mate... much appreciated.

[Jpreisser]

I`m not certain if he had any, though if he did I know he had very few, O'Neil Bell, the former Cruiserweight champion.

[Lenny Cravats]

Anthony Mundine?

[Boxing Prospect]

I swear I read Kohei Kono had no amateur experience.

[JMac]

"The Executioner" Bernard Hopkins.

Hopkins did fight as an amateur, almost a 100 fights apparently. Below extract from an interview with him

"I've been in good hands with Danny Davis, but the only thing is to have me not overdo what I have loved to do for two decades. I like to train. I like to run. I like to eat the right foods. This is a habit. It's a good when you've got good habits, it makes everybody's job easier. Of course, sometimes I have aches and pains or I have a lot of rub-in muscle cream in my medicine cabinet, but other than that, 20 years of boxing as a professional since I was nine years old as an amateur, you're going to have these things as time goes on."

I am not familiar with BHops amateur career before he went to prison but I do know that he did box while doing time. In Pennsylvania, they used to have a great prison boxing program where they would have different prisons box against each other and also a state prison championship. I used to ref a lot of the dual matches between prisons and I used to take my amateur team to spar at two different prisons or State Correctional Institution as they were called. Bhop did time at SCI Graterford outside of Philly. There were some really good boxers in the prisons but many of them were doing life sentences and in Pennsylvania, life means life and they will never get out. We used to get great sparring with those guys. Unfortunately the Governor (Tom Ridge) back in the late 90's decided to do away with the boxing program because of the overtime cost when guards had to travel with the teams to the different prisons. The reality was that it was good incentive for the inmates to behave because they had to meet certain requirements of behavior to participate but it's gone now. Too bad.

[Ambling Alp II]

Yeah i always thought Hopkins had an amatuer career....

.... what about McLarnin he'd be considered quite highly p4p and i seem to recall him jumping into the pro's quite young with no amatuer experience.... could be wrong though....


....there is someone else on the tip of my tongue i cant think of atm moment.... maybe not a elite p4per... but also started very young.... i'll think on it....


....just out of curiousity when did amatuer boxing actually begin... 1910s??? (ie... tournaments, ranking, olympics, ect.)

McLarnin claimed not to have a amateur career. He said that he was paid a dollar for a fight when he was 10 and was always paid. He would make a few bucks in fights for several years. A lot of fighters used to start that way. For all practical purposes, they were amateurs. His first official fight was when he was 16.

It's hard to say when amateur boxing began; at least what we think of as amateur boxing. There were various boxing clubs around in the United States in the latter 19th century. Pros and amateurs trained, sparred, and had bouts there. Sparring was almost always done with gloves, and by the 1880s, most fights were contested by Marquis of Queensbury Rules in the United States, whether it was pros or "amateurs".
Besides the "booths" in Great Britain, various forms of unofficial fights were held around the turn of the century. Young black fighters often fought in "Battle Royals featuring several fighters; with usually only the winner making any money. Jack Johnson fought in some of these.
Boxing was first in the modern Olympics in 1904, and was again 1908. It was not held in 1912. It was back in 1924 and has been held in every Olympics since.
Golden Gloves tournaments started in the United States in 1926, and was very popular by the 1930s.

[pbchron]

I have a picture (somewhere) from the Philadelphia Journal of a 15 year old Middle School student, Bernard Hopkins in a fight pose while in his school clothes. The caption below the picture states that the promising Hopkins has already won 35 of 38 Junior olympic and amateur bouts.

[delisa]

Its not that hard to trace amateur boxing if you really care about it.

You might want to start with the Marquis of Queensberry Rules Governing Contests for Endurance (1865) , followed by

Amateur Athletic Association (1880, England), and
Amateur Atheletic Union (AAU) Local, State, National Championships (1888, U.S.)

http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/law.htm
http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/q-rules.htm

[Like a Boss]

Anthony Mundine?

Anthony Mundine had 4 amateur fights.

[Like a Boss]

JCC Jr?

debate is was his title "real".

Have read JCCC Jr had 2 amateur fights.

[elmersalsa]

How about the great Ted "Kid" Lewis from England? He started his pro career at age 14.

[littlepug]

might be wrong but Henry armstrong and mike weaver ?

[Sidney Carton]

Harold Johnson never had an amateur fight.

[Mastrangelos]

I might be wrong about it, but I believe many of the Thai fighters, who come to boxing after lengthy Muay Thai career, didn't compete in any amateur boxing fights.
Of course Muay Thai is a lot of experience in itself, but technically - they would probably fit description.

[scartissue]

might be wrong but Henry armstrong and mike weaver ?

Don't know about Armstrong but Weaver was All-Marine and Inter-Service light heavy champ I believe and was also L.A. Diamond Belt heavyweight champ, so his was extensive. I will add in Curtis Cokes and Rodolfo Gonzalez as a couple of guys who never fought as anything other than pro.

[orbtastic]

Carpentier didn't box as an amateur, I believe. He turned pro at 14 or so and had some bouts before that but it wasn't ama boxing and not boxing per se - More savate (where your feet are also used).