Semi pro queensbury

[amirah]

Iv seen a few comments on here about the use of the term semi pro and just wondered what your take on the queensbury semi pro boxing on sky? Do use class this tv worthy boxing? Do you class this as semi pro or simply unlicensed like the rest?

[stujones]

Good question, in terms of the standard of boxing - unlicensed I would say.... there are a few half decent fighters on the shows I have seen. I believe Tom Doran (have I got his name right?) fights on there and he was once regarded as one of Britain's finest pro prospects - I haven't seen him since he has gone unlicensed.

The TV question is a very good one...... My main answer is NO - the standard is poor, although I do watch cause any boxing is better than nothing at all. I am frustrated at Eurosport for devoting their limited funding to this and not "proper" boxing.

But then it does beg the question, these small hall promoters who complain about the lack of TV etc - are Eurosport approaching them? Are they pricing themselves out? Are they over valuing their product, because in terms of exposure Queensbury is much more exposed than "proper" boxing. In terms of the TV the Queensbury stuff is fairly slick and I would think most small hall promoters would love to have such devotion...... so why aren't they?

I guess another thing to consider perhaps Eurosport find the Queensbury thing more attractive - there is usually a "British" title at the end of the day, you get to know/follow certain fighters and the fights are often short at 5 rounds tops. What TV appeal is a long bill in which the main event might be an 8/10 rounder with nothing on the line.

[TopGun]

Billy Nelson did a thread on similar to this not long ago.

[billy nelson]

There is no such thing as semi pro boxing, you are or your not.
It's simply a selling tool

[mickey1975]

There is no such thing as semi pro boxing, you are or your not.
It's simply a selling tool

So they are then. They are being paid to box. Professional boxers unlicensed by the BBBC.

[damianhucker1]

2 of my lads are boxing for queensbury titles in march.

Not my doing though as i advised them against it, they've had a total of 6 unlicensed bouts between them, trainer put them forward for it.
Dont get me wrong though they arent bad lads and may win the titles, but what grates me is that people who know no better assume that because its televised its the elite of the unlicensed lads, which it isnt, so if my lads dont win those titles it kind of looks bad on myself for putting them forward, but i didnt, the trainer did, i dont be all defensive and tell the lads they can only box on my shows etc like some do. As long as they dont box on the lesser level local white collar stuff that occurs from time to time.
The pay is poor too.
The time when i think queensbury is useful is for those considering turning pro as it can give them a little bit if tv exposure to then help sell themselves on the back of it, which is the same positive spin ill attempt to put on it afterwards for my own shows.

[Alba]

Semi Pro ?

Nah for once i agree with Ricky Burns Coach here

its either Pro or unlicensed .

[stujones]

Alba and Billy....

Completely agree, but playing devils' advocate here.... what about WSB. That is one thing I would call semi pro.

[mickey1975]

Semi Pro ?

Nah for once i agree with Ricky Burns Coach here

its either Pro or unlicensed .

No, it's either pro or amateur. And it's either licensed by the BBBC or unlicensed by the BBBC.

[billy nelson]

Semi Pro ?

Nah for once i agree with Ricky Burns Coach here

its either Pro or unlicensed .

Alba do you not think its ridiculous to have a show on in Ravenscraig the night before Ricky's show in the secc?
it's not really fair on the public if they had to choose there's only one answer really, I think it could be a financial nightmare for Paul with so many fights on

[slapbangwhallop]

Semi Pro ?

Nah for once i agree with Ricky Burns Coach here

its either Pro or unlicensed .

Alba do you not think its ridiculous to have a show on in Ravenscraig the night before Ricky's show in the secc?
it's not really fair on the public if they had to choose there's only one answer really, I think it could be a financial nightmare for Paul with so many fights on

which was announced first?

[Alba]

Semi Pro ?

Nah for once i agree with Ricky Burns Coach here

its either Pro or unlicensed .

Alba do you not think its ridiculous to have a show on in Ravenscraig the night before Ricky's show in the secc?
it's not really fair on the public if they had to choose there's only one answer really, I think it could be a financial nightmare for Paul with so many fights on

which was announced first?

Ours was announced first, a long time before the March 1st date was announced .

Appriciate the concern Billy ,but I would focus on your job with Ricky Burns and let us do ours . Good luck for Ricky's fight .

[HomicideHenry]

I love the fact that in the UK & Ireland this practice is not only in effect (and has been for decades) but is quite a popular show. It gives an outlet to fighters of various skill levels and abilities, a chance to make some money, keep active, and in the public eye. I wish America had this system in place, and we would probably see better fighters in the actual pro ring, because the lesser fighters would be either still amateurs or be on the 'semi-pro' circuit; or would give the lesser fighters more time to improve, while still making some cash to ensure training expenses.

If I am not mistaken, following the 'booth' era in Britain & Ireland, unlicensed boxing became a main stay during the late 40's---- of course, it wasn't until the 60's and 70's with such names was Fred 'Nosher' Powell, Cliff Fields, Roy Shaw, Lenny McLean, Kevin Paddock, Johnny Waldron, etc. did it become very popular. The majority of these contests were to determine the 'hardest man in Britain', usually against the 'toughest' bouncers, etc. every now and then ex pro's or amateurs would be introduced and work their way up the ladder and the matches would be promoted to the hilt as being 'death bouts' and the middle class/working class would come out in droves to see such men beat their brains in.

However, the semi-pro circuit at that time (and I still suspect even now), was rigged. Most the guys fighting in the leagues were either dinosaurs, or loud mouths who couldn't really box for beans; and alot of fights were fixed, to ensure more money on bets or to create new stars. Whether you love him or hate him, allegedly started off as a promoter under semi-pro boxing and he was lucky enough to have Lenny McLean as his cousin--- and even allegedly will admit that alot of Lenny's fights were fixed. The proof is in the pudding, as Lenny lost BADLY to actual amateur/pros like Cliff Fields, Johnny Waldron, Kevin Paddock, etc. yet at the same time was being promoted as a sort of boxing powerhouse, the baddest man in Britain.

As of right now, I know of three-four semi-pro leagues in Britain. One is the UBL, ran by Jerry Gorman (nephew of Bartley Gorman). Another is the famed EBF, where guys like Stormin' Norman Buckland and ex pro's like Scott Gammer and Danny Williams have fought in. There are a few other lesser organisations, but they all draw relatively well from what I heard--- then factor in the number of semi-pro mma leagues like CAUK or BBAD, which does bare knuckle/hand wrap mma/boxing matches. The majority of men in those leagues, though, are old ex pro's like Dave Radford (who fought Duran) and amateur boxers like James McCrory (who coincidentially is the BBAD bare knuckle champion).

In America, what was left of the 'semi-pro' leagues like Art Dore's Toughman contests, no longer exist or are dying out. Pro boxing and amateur boxing and pro/am mma have ran a monopoly on the game, so its impossible to have a middle ground area where amateurs can make cash on the side and not lose their amateur status, and pros to pick up some coin while not effecting their pro record. To me its all in good fun--- and anyone with any sense ought to get into it, because over in the UK & Ireland all bars/pubs have an entertainment license which covers unlicensed boxing; so anyone can become a promoter of such cards and make some coin.

[bripez]

Semi Pro ?

Nah for once i agree with Ricky Burns Coach here

its either Pro or unlicensed .

No, it's either pro or amateur. And it's either licensed by the BBBC or unlicensed by the BBBC.

Are you saying that you are only a professional if licensed by the BBBofC ?

I am sure that the members of the Nevada State Athletic Commission would disagree ! - if you also include other bodies, who decides what bodies are "acceptable" or not, and what is their criteria ?

Also, what do you mean by "professional" - eg. getting paid for doing something ?

[expe]

Semi Pro ?

Nah for once i agree with Ricky Burns Coach here

its either Pro or unlicensed .

No, it's either pro or amateur. And it's either licensed by the BBBC or unlicensed by the BBBC.

Are you saying that you are only a professional if licensed by the BBBofC ?

I am sure that the members of the Nevada State Athletic Commission would disagree ! - if you also include other bodies, who decides what bodies are "acceptable" or not, and what is their criteria ?

Also, what do you mean by "professional" - eg. getting paid for doing something ?

If it's in this country and it isn't licensed or sanctioned by the BBBofC then to me that isn't professional boxing, that includes GBA, Luxembourg and Malta sanctioned shows.

[mickey1975]

Technically, if your paid, your pro. The BBBC are self appointed.

[tear up]

Talkin to someone last week he came out with I'm semi pro I thought he was an hockey fuckin player then he said boxing I thought he was full of shit till I read this thread and I agree ya billy either pro
Or not

[bripez]

Technically, if your paid, your pro. The BBBC are self appointed.

That is the point - the BBBofC are not the "law" or government or something, they are a self appointed self interest group that just got there first.

Why can't there also be other groups looking after the interests of boxers?

[lillywhite14]

Am I right in saying there are something like three different levels in the queensbury thing?

Not my cup of tea at all to be honest. I have a couple of friends who fight in the league, one in what I can only assume is at novice level and the other has some form of title but I don't think he is competing at the highest level in the league. Strange set up, what with the tv thing. Its a shame Eurosport don't look at the "real" pro game instead.

[Jakemilo]

homicide Henry

Dave Radfords got a book out now ,I know him from years ago he boxed as a pro out of our old amature club in Dewsbury really nice bloke to speak to just turned a bit crackers

[Wake up call]

In the UK there are two types of paid boxing (not counting amateurs who receive funding) and they are BBBofC licensed and non-BBBofC licensed.

Over the past few years, BBBofC has become known as "pro" boxing, while non-BBBofC shows have been dubbed "unlicensed". In truth, neither the tell the real story. Anyone who is paid for any kind of work is a professional, while the term "unlicensed" merely means non-BBBofC licensed. Therefore, you could be a professional non-BBBofC boxer.

In terms of semi-pro status, in other sports it means someone who is paid to participate but has another job as well. In football this would be players in the leagues such as the Conference North/South, Evostik League etc. If you think about it then, most "pros" with BBBofC licenses are semi-pros really, because lets's face it, below British/European title level there's not enough money in the sport for them to make a full-time living.

In short, the terms "pro", "semi-pro", "licensed" and "unlicensed" are misnomers in a lot of cases.

[mickey1975]

In the UK there are two types of paid boxing (not counting amateurs who receive funding) and they are BBBofC licensed and non-BBBofC licensed.

Over the past few years, BBBofC has become known as "pro" boxing, while non-BBBofC shows have been dubbed "unlicensed". In truth, neither the tell the real story. Anyone who is paid for any kind of work is a professional, while the term "unlicensed" merely means non-BBBofC licensed. Therefore, you could be a professional non-BBBofC boxer.

In terms of semi-pro status, in other sports it means someone who is paid to participate but has another job as well. In football this would be players in the leagues such as the Conference North/South, Evostik League etc. If you think about it then, most "pros" with BBBofC licenses are semi-pros really, because lets's face it, below British/European title level there's not enough money in the sport for them to make a full-time living.

In short, the terms "pro", "semi-pro", "licensed" and "unlicensed" are misnomers in a lot of cases.

Basically what I've been saying all along...

[spudder56]

Technically, if your paid, your pro. The BBBC are self appointed.

That is the point - the BBBofC are not the "law" or government or something, they are a self appointed self interest group that just got there first.

Why can't there also be other groups looking after the interests of boxers?

There is other groups looking after boxers the ebf , queens bury etc if people don't like the club that is the bbbofc the answer is simple don't join it

[chad]

Watched on Eurosport and don't like it. It felt too amateur.

[HomicideHenry]

homicide Henry

Dave Radfords got a book out now ,I know him from years ago he boxed as a pro out of our old amature club in Dewsbury really nice bloke to speak to just turned a bit crackers

'Blood Is Sweat Turned Red', I think is what the book's title is.

He's a very interesting character to say the least. He also fought Michael Bisbeng the ex mma champion. Apparently he's been on the underground fight circuit doing BKB matches for decades; when he fought James McCrory at first I didn't know what to think or expect considering he was McCrory's senior by about twenty years--- it wasn't a pretty or scientific contest by any means, but was close. Was rather enjoyable while it lasted, until poor Dave caught an uppercut right over the eye and couldn't see and was subsequently kayoed.

I hear he is fighting on another BBAD or CAUK event soon, on the undercard (I'm guessing) of James McCrory's second BKB UK title defense against Jason Young--- from what I hear it will be the first 'sanctioned' all bare knuckle event in England since the 1860's as it will be sanctioned under an mma affiliate company. I wish the company all the best, it's been a long time coming that London Prize Ring rules came back--- after all they have 'Shoot-Jujitsu' and other sports without gloves on and compete, so why not this pseudo-mma sport that was the root of both boxing and wrestling.