Prime Joe Louis vs. a prime Muhammad Ali?

[NYDominican]

A prime Joe Louis against a prime Muhammad Ali.


What advantages would Joe have over Muhammad?


What advantages would Muhammad have over Joe?


What do you see happening in this fight?


Who would win?


Why?

[zojo]

Eddie Futch said Louis would win. Therefore, so would I.

[HomicideHenry]

There were many interesting articles and interviews done with Louis after Ali won the championship from Liston, mainly because of Ali not entering into the Armed forces and Ali making statements that Louis was something of an Uncle Tom, etc.

Louis said something along the lines that Ali's greatest weakness would be a counter-punching style, with a jab always in Ali's face and chest. Whether Louis could have pulled it off, is always a matter of contention. Personally, I think Louis was too slow of foot to of been capable of doing it. After all, he struggled for twelve rounds with Billy Conn--- and Ali was much bigger, and far faster than Conn was.

However, if one looks at the history of Ali, it was Norton who gave Ali the most trouble. And his was a counter-punching style, and he kept the jab constantly in Ali's face and chest. He had the mobility that Louis lacked. Much as I like Louis, he would of lost to Ali--- if it were a series of contests, maybe Louis could of won one. After all, Louis was death in rematches with the men he went up against.

The closest thing to Ali that he faced was the ring wizard Jersey Joe Walcott, and we know that Louis was given a gift decision in the first contest, and was losing badly in the rematch until he finally caught up with him to knock him out. Louis, not in a million years, would ever knock Ali out. So that slim chance is out the window. Ali was faster than Walcott, and had a greater resistance to punches. He was also, almost, as crafty a boxer as Walcott was.

[Othro]

If Conn could trouble Louis for 14 rounds Ali could do it for 15 right?

But....

If Cooper could put Ali down couldn't Louis finish him ?

[HomicideHenry]

If Conn could trouble Louis for 14 rounds Ali could do it for 15 right?

But....

If Cooper could put Ali down couldn't Louis finish him ?

No. No. And No.

[Othro]

If Conn could trouble Louis for 14 rounds Ali could do it for 15 right?

But....

If Cooper could put Ali down couldn't Louis finish him ?

No. No. And No.

No Ali couldn't trouble Louis for 15 rounds?

No but?

No Louis couldn't finish Ali off?

[SamWise72]

Most would say that Ali was pre-prime at the time he faced Cooper. If Louis caught him like Cooper did, he'd have a better chance of finishing him, sure, but we all know how good Ali's chin was. I agree with those who say that Ali's mobility would be the key, and when assessing the Norton fights, that wasn't the fleet footed Ali of his greatest performances. It's true that really good counterpunchers gave Ali his toughest nights, but also that he didn't face any of them prior to his hiatus.

[Uppercut1]

Ali no question if we're talking prime for prime.

No question

[drunkenpiper36]

If Conn could trouble Louis for 14 rounds Ali could do it for 15 right?

But....

If Cooper could put Ali down couldn't Louis finish him ?

Muhammad Ali was 22 years old and had some 18 fights when Cooper decked him. I don't think the Ali of 1963 was as good as the Ali of 1967

[drunkenpiper36]

There were many interesting articles and interviews done with Louis after Ali won the championship from Liston, mainly because of Ali not entering into the Armed forces and Ali making statements that Louis was something of an Uncle Tom, etc.

Louis said something along the lines that Ali's greatest weakness would be a counter-punching style, with a jab always in Ali's face and chest. Whether Louis could have pulled it off, is always a matter of contention. Personally, I think Louis was too slow of foot to of been capable of doing it. After all, he struggled for twelve rounds with Billy Conn--- and Ali was much bigger, and far faster than Conn was.

However, if one looks at the history of Ali, it was Norton who gave Ali the most trouble. And his was a counter-punching style, and he kept the jab constantly in Ali's face and chest. He had the mobility that Louis lacked. Much as I like Louis, he would of lost to Ali--- if it were a series of contests, maybe Louis could of won one. After all, Louis was death in rematches with the men he went up against.

The closest thing to Ali that he faced was the ring wizard Jersey Joe Walcott, and we know that Louis was given a gift decision in the first contest, and was losing badly in the rematch until he finally caught up with him to knock him out. Louis, not in a million years, would ever knock Ali out. So that slim chance is out the window. Ali was faster than Walcott, and had a greater resistance to punches. He was also, almost, as crafty a boxer as Walcott was.

Good post. I have to favor Ali as well.

[Othro]

Most would say that Ali was pre-prime at the time he faced Cooper. If Louis caught him like Cooper did, he'd have a better chance of finishing him, sure, but we all know how good Ali's chin was. I agree with those who say that Ali's mobility would be the key, and when assessing the Norton fights, that wasn't the fleet footed Ali of his greatest performances. It's true that really good counterpunchers gave Ali his toughest nights, but also that he didn't face any of them prior to his hiatus.

I agree that Ali was pre prime for Cooper I think Louis first fight with Conn was an off night the point I was trying to make is that these are bad examples of the outcome of the fight .

[SamWise72]

See, when I watch Louis against Conn, I see him doing what he did so well, but against a man it didn't work against, rather than seeing a subpar performance.

[Othro]

See, when I watch Louis against Conn, I see him doing what he did so well, but against a man it didn't work against, rather than seeing a subpar performance.

Curious , what are your thoughts on the rematch ?
Would you say Conn had an off night?

[SamWise72]

Conn produced his best ever form for the first fight. He couldn't do it again; the first fight took something out of him and he was never the same fighter again.

[knockouts67]

Ali TKO 12 Louis could not handle good boxers and Ali was the best. He made Liston look like a child until the substance went in his eyes. Louis was hurt badly by smaller slower men than Ali. Ali in his 30's took Foreman and Frazier's bombs. Conn was not nearly as fast as Ali and Walcott owned him until he got cute. This would not be a great contest.

[The Great John L]

...Louis could not handle good boxers...

In his prime, which good boxers did Louis "not handle"?

[hhascup]

If Conn could trouble Louis for 14 rounds Ali could do it for 15 right?

But....

If Cooper could put Ali down couldn't Louis finish him ?

Muhammad Ali was 22 years old and had some 18 fights when Cooper decked him. I don't think the Ali of 1963 was as good as the Ali of 1967

Actually Ali was only 21 years old at the time he faced Cooper the 1st time.

I too would pick Ali, as he was just too fast for Louis.

[Ketchel]

Conn produced his best ever form for the first fight. He couldn't do it again; the first fight took something out of him and he was never the same fighter again.

Conn produced his best that night but Louis was having his 7th fight in 7 months. This is some schedule to be keeping even if it was known as his "bum of the month" time. Louis looked stale in that fight and it is unfairly used as a benchmark that Ali would easily beat him. While I too think Ali would prevail it would be no walk in the park.

[SamWise72]

Agreed, I would never say easy. I read it pretty much as you do; he's going to win, but he'll have to go through hell

[scallum]

Too ba d we never really got to see The Prime Ali

[zojo]

Too ba d we never really got to see The Prime Ali

Louis also lost a significant amount of time. One could say it would have been his prime as well.

[Cap]

Prime Louis vs Prime Ali. I have to pick Ali to win a decision over 15 rounds, but he has to fight the perfect fight, if he makes a mistake as others did with Louis, he will pay dearly. Jack Blackburn's in Louis' corner with Freddie Brown. Angelo Dundee and Drew Bundini Brown in Ali's. Six ounce gloves. Arthur Donovan the third man. Two judges, one from Louis' time and one from Ali's, with Donovan scoring as well.

[gilgamesh]

Ali W15

Unanimous Decision.

[Crease]

I honestly think that this is the most discussed topic in the history of BoxRec.

[Jonpcole]

I'm going to hedge my bets on this one. I am 54 and have been a boxing fan since my teens. For most of that time I would have predicted that Ali would have beaten Louis hands down by either a unanimous decision or a late round knock out. However, I have since changed my mind. The reason is simple: Youtube.

I was raised on Ali and watched most of his fights on free TV in the 70's. However, I just recently took a good, long look at a 30's era Joe Louis. Louis was a precise, methodical, and paralyzing puncher in his prime. The early Cassius Clay was great. No question about that, but I now see a lot of wasted motion in what he did.

I believe a young Joe Louis knocks out a young Cassius Clay with a precise right hand in the early rounds. Think Henry Cooper except with more time left in the round and a hell of a lot more power.

Post 1970 I would pick Ali to beat Louis by decision or a late knockout. The older, more filled out Ali was a true man. The man of Zaire and Manila was damn near unbeatable for any heavyweight in history including Joe Louis.