Who is boxing's worst referee?

Freedom2013 · Post by **Freedom2013** » 12 Sep 2014, 14:56

By "worst" I mean:

1. Incompetence
2. Gets too involved
3. Stops fights too quickly (several British refs)
4. Favoring/helping event promoter's fighter (Reiss in Kessler-Ward, ref in Ottke-Reid)
5. Doesn't stop fights soon enough and lets boxers get hurt
6. Favors boxers because he likes him (Smoger in Hopkins-Murat)
7. Ignores fouls

Or any combination of the above.

Cap · Post by **Cap** » 12 Sep 2014, 15:02

Left off a few others, including that boob Luis Pabon (sic) who refereed Klitschko-Povetkin. So many refs who seem to have finished in the lower half of How to Be A Boxing Referee.101 in the Skool o' Hard Knocks, eh. Like that guy who always uses he's fair but firm as his catch-phrase, what's his name? What a tool.

IKSRTFO · Post by **IKSRTFO** » 12 Sep 2014, 15:17

[quote="Cap"]Left off a few others, including that boob Luis Pabon (sic) who refereed Klitschko-Povetkin. So many refs who seem to have finished in the lower half of How to Be A Boxing Referee.101 in the Skool o' Hard Knocks, eh. Like that guy who always uses he's fair but firm as his catch-phrase, what's his name? What a tool.[/quote]

Joe Cortez

Freedom2013 · Post by **Freedom2013** » 12 Sep 2014, 15:55

IKSRTFO wrote:Joe Cortez

He's retired. Thank goodness for that, he was awful.

Boxing Writer · Post by **Boxing Writer** » 12 Sep 2014, 15:57

Cap wrote:Left off a few others, including that boob Luis Pabon (sic) who refereed Klitschko-Povetkin. So many refs who seem to have finished in the lower half of How to Be A Boxing Referee.101 in the Skool o' Hard Knocks, eh. Like that guy who always uses he's fair but firm as his catch-phrase, what's his name? What a tool.

He also was a referee in Povetkin's fight against Huck. After the fight Huck and his trainer heavily critisized Pabon. They said he helped Povetkin in many occasions when Alex was "diving" forward with his head. Huck and his team thought Pabon should have taken points from Povetkin, but he didn't. Considering what happened in this two fights (Povetkin vs Huck and Povetkin vs Klitschko) I think that Pabon isn't biased referee. He just allows any fighter to do anything in the ring besides blatant fouls (low blows, headbutts), which is wrong, but definitely not as bad as bias.

handsofstone · Post by **handsofstone** » 12 Sep 2014, 15:58

Do refs ever judge in America like in in the UK?

Freedom2013 · Post by **Freedom2013** » 12 Sep 2014, 16:08

handsofstone wrote:Do refs ever judge in America like in in the UK?

Not lately. At one time they did - Joe Cortez robbed Coetzee against Snipes I remember.

They sometimes ref like British referees. There was a "British stoppage" by an American ref in Las Vegas last night (Ortiz-Kayode fight).

JMac · Post by **JMac** » 12 Sep 2014, 16:37

handsofstone wrote:Do refs ever judge in America like in in the UK?

They used to but not anymore.

diddy · Post by **diddy** » 12 Sep 2014, 16:39

How is Smoger on this list? And someone actually voted for him?

handsofstone · Post by **handsofstone** » 12 Sep 2014, 16:58

diddy wrote:How is Smoger on this list? And someone actually voted for him?

Smoger's good for the letting the action flow but sometimes lets it go on too far and he's bias as fvck but he's still one of the better ones

I heard/read the other day that "the best refs are the once you dont notice" and thats def true

Boxing Writer · Post by **Boxing Writer** » 12 Sep 2014, 17:08

diddy wrote:How is Smoger on this list? And someone actually voted for him?

I didn't vote for him, but he had some bad moments as a referee. For example, his stoppage of Roy Jones - Denis Lebedev fight was awfully late. But overall I think he is pretty good referee.

chucktaylor · Post by **chucktaylor** » 12 Sep 2014, 17:14

Other: Manfred Kuechler
He's the German ref that recently DQ'd Mathis against Hammer for the Women's MW championship for landing punches to the side of the head while being held on one arm.
He also DQ'd Cisse Salif against Petkovic for 'low blows' in one of the worst (or best depending on perspective) displays of biased officiating you'll ever see. Fight video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0E9XmlsJaxg

I suppose he isn't the worst as far as impacting the sport if you consider the magnitude of the fights he's officiated, but he's shown himself to be very biased.

Mora makes a decent case for himself based on Mares-Agbeko I alone- I've never seen a fighter allowed to commit so many fouls (and be rewarded w/ a knockdown). He later said in an interview that it was the most regrettable moment of his career, but I still can't see how he could honestly fvck up that badly on the night.

How is Smoger on the list and not Vic Drakulich? Drakulich is so overzealous at times. Smoger gives me the creeps a little bit, but he does a good job.

Freedom2013 · Post by **Freedom2013** » 12 Sep 2014, 20:49

Boxing Writer wrote:
diddy wrote:How is Smoger on this list? And someone actually voted for him?
I didn't vote for him, but he had some bad moments as a referee. For example, his stoppage of Roy Jones - Denis Lebedev fight was awfully late. But overall I think he is pretty good referee.

Smoger actually threw a punch at Murat in his Hopkins fight. He was very obviously siding with B-Hop.

ttornado · Post by **ttornado** » 12 Sep 2014, 20:55

Cole is so dirty and so corrupt it has become something verging upon a joke. But this is boxing, and not a joke Laurence Cole is a coward who has lived off the position granted to him. A filthy human being.

mawuel · Post by **mawuel** » 13 Sep 2014, 06:09

joe cortez

Freedom2013 · Post by **Freedom2013** » 13 Sep 2014, 09:27

mawuel wrote:joe cortez

He's thankfully retired, so I left him off the list.

tanibanana · Post by **tanibanana** » 13 Sep 2014, 09:34

Wouldn't it be nice if there would be a thread, who is the best referee in boxing..
I mean, at least its one way to see who should refereeing big fights.

But as mentioned earlier, good refs are the ones you don't notice.

Blue · Post by **Blue** » 14 Sep 2014, 16:47

JMac wrote:
handsofstone wrote:Do refs ever judge in America like in in the UK?
They used to but not anymore.

AFAIK; California and Maryland rotate their judges and referees on shows.

JCS · Post by **JCS** » 14 Sep 2014, 16:56

Drakulich is definitely the biggest omission I can think of and one of the first names I thought of when I read the topic.

Given the options, has to be between Lewis and Cole.

JMac · Post by **JMac** » 14 Sep 2014, 21:06

Blue wrote:
JMac wrote:
handsofstone wrote:Do refs ever judge in America like in in the UK?
They used to but not anymore.
AFAIK; California and Maryland rotate their judges and referees on shows.

I think what he meant was ref and judge at the same time. In the UK often the ref is the sole decider on who wins and there are no judges.
Yes Maryland does have refs also judge at shows. I don't know about Cali but your probably right.
When I used to be a R/J for amateur boxing, I showed up at a show one time and was the only official so I ref'd and judge all of the fights. It took some concentration and I did not like doing that.

mattsplat · Post by **mattsplat** » 14 Sep 2014, 21:30

Russel Mora
Donaire v Montiel
Mares v Agbeko
Berto v Hernandez
Katsidis v Guerrero
Im sure there is one other fight where he performed horribly but cant recall it

Badhusker · Post by **Badhusker** » 15 Sep 2014, 19:24

I am surprised no one has wanted to now add Bayless to the list...

Freedom2013 · Post by **Freedom2013** » 15 Sep 2014, 19:50

Badhusker wrote:I am surprised no one has wanted to now add Bayless to the list...

If I'd made the poll after the fight, he'd have been there. I considered him to be a good ref, but on Saturday he disgraced himself.

Freedom2013 · Post by **Freedom2013** » 28 Feb 2016, 22:52

There are three exceptionally bad ones:

Lawrence Cole
Jack Reiss
Ian John-Lewis

All three always side with either one fighter or the other.

Some of the others mentioned in this thread are bad as well, but these three referees sink lower than any of the rest.

Lancenix · Post by **Lancenix** » 28 Feb 2016, 23:36

Kenny Bayless- Vic Drakulich - Jack Reiss all are corrupt for different reasons.