Open scoring

[jameswilson]

No doubt been discussed on here before. I think it would be an excellent idea for our British title fights that have 3 judges for the scores after, say, 6 rounds to be revealed.

Obviously the governing bodies (WBA etc) have their set rules so I don't think it would apply to those kind of title fights even if we did implement it, but in saying that Martinez v Murray did have it over in Argentina.

What are peoples thoughts on this?

[WelshJack]

I am not a fan personally it ruins the result really and in the 9th round if someone is a few points up they might just run, yes it may help the fighters but surely their corners should be telling them how that is going.

[King Tubby]

Would it be a bad idea for judges to give a reason why they scored a round for a Boxer? ie Boxer A wins the round because of number of punches landed/quality of punches landed/ workrate etc. Would this make them more accountable? If a Judge says, for example, it's for the amount of clean punches landed in a particular round, at least than can be calculated after and they can be shown to be correct or wrong with any consistency.

[rossij8]

I think scorecards should be assessed after the fight finishes

Scorecards are never talked about in any depth on TV - would be interesting to see how rounds were scored by each judge in detail sometimes

[Gazmac81]

i dont like the scoring being announcend during the fight
ruins it for me ,

[danamba7]

This could force the winning fighter to run for the rest of the fight. Also what if scores are announced and the clear winner over the first 6 rounds (Clear to the fans) is announced as losing, how is he going to be, mentally, going into the second half of the fight? It would affect things too much.

Personally I'd like to see a complete re-vamp of the scoring but there's more chance of me living the lifestyle of Jordan Belfort!

[Khaosai-Galaxy]

I think scorecards should be assessed after the fight finishes

Scorecards are never talked about in any depth on TV - would be interesting to see how rounds were scored by each judge in detail sometimes

Well it all depends on how you define "interesting"

[Boxing Prospect]

They are used in Japan for ALL national and OPBF title fights and they work really well, the recent Tanaka/Hara fight was scored correctly and the cards inspired one of the men to close the show in the final rounds.

Open scoring is great if 2 other things are in order.

We need good judges, if the judges are fair and the scores are accurate then open scoring will work, we should also have the judges names made public after each of the readings so we can see early on which judges are...inept.

We also need fighters to have the right mentality to go for the win rather than accept defeat. Again that seems to be more of a Japanese thing but it works there better than it would here.

[Khaosai-Galaxy]

They are used in Japan for ALL national and OPBF title fights and they work really well, the recent Tanaka/Hara fight was scored correctly and the cards inspired one of the men to close the show in the final rounds.

Open scoring is great if 2 other things are in order.

We need good judges, if the judges are fair and the scores are accurate then open scoring will work, we should also have the judges names made public after each of the readings so we can see early on which judges are...inept.

We also need fighters to have the right mentality to go for the win rather than accept defeat. Again that seems to be more of a Japanese thing but it works there better than it would here.

What utter tripe. People don't watch boxing for the scoring, or to know the names of the judges so we can shame them for their ineptness.

Let me tell you about that "Fighting Spirit" crap in Japan, fighters never accepting defeat and all that. Its utterly mindless, dangerous and completely backwards thinking, its horrible to watch a guy mindlessly get his head smashed in to show how he never accepted defeat etc


(And before you start, i used to live in Japan)

[handsofstone]

Open scorings awful IMO,theres nothing better than watching a fight and being left totally unaware who may win and how close

If it aint broke....

[Boxing Prospect]

What utter tripe. People don't watch boxing for the scoring, or to know the names of the judges so we can shame them for their ineptness.

Let me tell you about that "Fighting Spirit" crap in Japan, fighters never accepting defeat and all that. Its utterly mindless, dangerous and completely backwards thinking, its horrible to watch a guy mindlessly get his head smashed in to show how he never accepted defeat etc


(And before you start, i used to live in Japan)

You're right, we don't watch the fight to know the scores yet afterwards the scores become important. Having the judges accountable for the BS after 4 rounds rather than 12 rounds seems to be a good idea IMO. Why wait 12 rounds to know you're being shafted when you can be made aware after 4 rounds?

Boxing is dangerous, we still watch watch it. We have a certain British fighter who is still fighting, accepting defeat and makes the health of Joichiro Tatsuyoshi look perfect in comparison. I'd rather see fighters fight than fighters get in the ring, realise they are behind and shrug their shoulders to take a clear loss at the end of 12.

We as fans pay for a fight and watchign some of the crap put on by fighters like Kevin Johnson is a joke.

[Khaosai-Galaxy]

You're right, we don't watch the fight to know the scores yet afterwards the scores become important. Having the judges accountable for the BS after 4 rounds rather than 12 rounds seems to be a good idea IMO. Why wait 12 rounds to know you're being shafted when you can be made aware after 4 rounds?

Whats the difference? If you are getting shafted after4, you are gonna be shafted for 12. If a fighter knows hes being shafted do you think hes gonna "fight harder"?
Thats bullshit Japanese thinking again.

Boxing is dangerous, we still watch watch it. We have a certain British fighter who is still fighting, accepting defeat and makes the health of Joichiro Tatsuyoshi look perfect in comparison. I'd rather see fighters fight than fighters get in the ring, realise they are behind and shrug their shoulders to take a clear loss at the end of 12.

Yes, here we go, more Japanese nonsense "I am behind, i must Fight harder!"

your whole argument for open scoring is that it will make guys who know they are being screwed fight harder?

It will do the opposite.

[Khaosai-Galaxy]

I don't like it, its like watching one of those poo films where someone pops up with lines and lines of exposition every 15 minutes. I know what I'm looking at, I am perfectly capable at clocking the dizzying plot shifts that pop up in Elvira: Queen Of The Dark.

"poo films"

You can only get them in Belgium cant you?

[Boxing Prospect]

You're right, we don't watch the fight to know the scores yet afterwards the scores become important. Having the judges accountable for the BS after 4 rounds rather than 12 rounds seems to be a good idea IMO. Why wait 12 rounds to know you're being shafted when you can be made aware after 4 rounds?

Whats the difference? If you are getting shafted after4, you are gonna be shafted for 12. If a fighter knows hes being shafted do you think hes gonna "fight harder"?
Thats bullshit Japanese thinking again.

Boxing is dangerous, we still watch watch it. We have a certain British fighter who is still fighting, accepting defeat and makes the health of Joichiro Tatsuyoshi look perfect in comparison. I'd rather see fighters fight than fighters get in the ring, realise they are behind and shrug their shoulders to take a clear loss at the end of 12.

Yes, here we go, more Japanese nonsense "I am behind, i must Fight harder!"

your whole argument for open scoring is that it will make guys who know they are being screwed fight harder?

It will do the opposite.

If a fighter know he's being shafted he may well go for the KO more so than he would other wise. Again it's dependent on the judges scoring correctly. Professional boxing is the only sport when you can't be sure who won until 5 minutes after the contest. In every other sport the competitors know where they stand.

[Khaosai-Galaxy]

You're right, we don't watch the fight to know the scores yet afterwards the scores become important. Having the judges accountable for the BS after 4 rounds rather than 12 rounds seems to be a good idea IMO. Why wait 12 rounds to know you're being shafted when you can be made aware after 4 rounds?

Whats the difference? If you are getting shafted after4, you are gonna be shafted for 12. If a fighter knows hes being shafted do you think hes gonna "fight harder"?
Thats bullshit Japanese thinking again.

Boxing is dangerous, we still watch watch it. We have a certain British fighter who is still fighting, accepting defeat and makes the health of Joichiro Tatsuyoshi look perfect in comparison. I'd rather see fighters fight than fighters get in the ring, realise they are behind and shrug their shoulders to take a clear loss at the end of 12.

Yes, here we go, more Japanese nonsense "I am behind, i must Fight harder!"

your whole argument for open scoring is that it will make guys who know they are being screwed fight harder?

It will do the opposite.

If a fighter know he's being shafted he may well go for the KO more so than he would other wise. Again it's dependent on the judges scoring correctly. Professional boxing is the only sport when you can't be sure who won until 5 minutes after the contest. In every other sport the competitors know where they stand.

why are you basing your whole argument on a fighter being shafted?

Its a weak debating position, you can be attacked from so many angles and only have 1 defence.

ummm how about MMA scoring?

[Boxing Prospect]

[quote="Khaosai-Galaxy"
why are you basing your whole argument on a fighter being shafted?

Its a weak debating position, you can be attacked from so many angles and only have 1 defence.

ummm how about MMA scoring?[/quote]


I'm basing on a fighter being shafted as we've seen it plenty of times. You think if Pacquiao knew he was down against Bradley he'd have eased off? What about De La Hoya Vs Trinidad? The argument is that fighters will ease off if they are in the lead yet we see Mayweather run away in round 12 of most fights.

It's not just fighters being shafted, it can also inspire a fighter to pull it out the bag as fans saw the other week with Hisashi Amagasa's win over Ryo Takenaka. Amagasa was behind after 8 and went all out in round 12 to pull off the win. Like wise Suriyan went on an all out offensive assault in round 12 against Yamanaka knowing that he needed a KO, he lacked the power to get it but went out for it

MMA should have open scoring as well, though it does only seem to be professional combat sports.

[Khaosai-Galaxy]

[quote="Khaosai-Galaxy"
why are you basing your whole argument on a fighter being shafted?

Its a weak debating position, you can be attacked from so many angles and only have 1 defence.

ummm how about MMA scoring?

I'm basing on a fighter being shafted as we've seen it plenty of times. You think if Pacquiao knew he was down against Bradley he'd have eased off? What about De La Hoya Vs Trinidad? The argument is that fighters will ease off if they are in the lead yet we see Mayweather run away in round 12 of most fights.

It's not just fighters being shafted, it can also inspire a fighter to pull it out the bag as fans saw the other week with Hisashi Amagasa's win over Ryo Takenaka. Amagasa was behind after 8 and went all out in round 12 to pull off the win. Like wise Suriyan went on an all out offensive assault in round 12 against Yamanaka knowing that he needed a KO, he lacked the power to get it but went out for it

MMA should have open scoring as well, though it does only seem to be professional combat sports.[/quote]

You keep bringing up Japan like its some kind of role model for the world to follow

This is unfortunate.

Do you know how corrupt boxing is in Japan? some of the worst decisions of all time have been foreigners fighting Japanese in Japan. The whole boxing scene is controlled by the Yakuza, who fix fights (big and small) on a regular basis.

I am skeptical of the validity of any combat sport in Japan, there have been toooo many obvious fixes over the years. They always want to put on a show and the sport is 2nd to the show.
Notice how fights in Japan are rarely boring?

[digzee]

As a fan I like the suspense at the end so would not want it but if I was a fighter I would want it so I know where I stand...

[Horse]

I don't like open scoring.

[crusader]

Not knowing the scores adds a large amount of valuable suspense and drama to boxing that I think open scoring significantly reduces (e.g. it killed Canelo-Trout for me, a bout I thought was very close until hearing that Alvarez was way ahead after eight). I understand that it could hypothetically spur fighters on if they realize they're behind, but likewise it may discourage a boxer who thought they were doing better than the scores indicate and/or cause the leading boxer to coast and spoil, something which happens very frequently in the amateurs when scoring is public. I also think that having a general sense of how they've been doing and being mindful of the bad decisions that regularly occur will typically be enough for most boxers to give a suitable effort, especially in competitive bouts.

Another argument for open scoring that I've seen is that by having their scores listed at points throughout the fight, judges will be deterred from biased scoring. I've yet to see much evidence that bouts with open scoring are judged particularly fairly though, and if a judge is going to be favorable to a boxer despite knowing that their card will be public almost immediately after the bout I doubt that having their card announced twice during the bout is going to be much of a deterrent. Bad decisions disproportionately favor house fighters as well, so if judges do score differently when scores are announced during a bout it seems quite likely to me that the difference would be an even greater level of bias, as the responses from a partisan crowd to the scores may increase the pressure on a judge to score in a manner that favors the home boxer.

I can see certain arguments for it and perhaps it does have positive impacts at times, but overall I think it's more of a negative than a positive for the sport.

[Boxing Prospect]

[quote="Khaosai-Galaxy"
why are you basing your whole argument on a fighter being shafted?

Its a weak debating position, you can be attacked from so many angles and only have 1 defence.

ummm how about MMA scoring?

I'm basing on a fighter being shafted as we've seen it plenty of times. You think if Pacquiao knew he was down against Bradley he'd have eased off? What about De La Hoya Vs Trinidad? The argument is that fighters will ease off if they are in the lead yet we see Mayweather run away in round 12 of most fights.

It's not just fighters being shafted, it can also inspire a fighter to pull it out the bag as fans saw the other week with Hisashi Amagasa's win over Ryo Takenaka. Amagasa was behind after 8 and went all out in round 12 to pull off the win. Like wise Suriyan went on an all out offensive assault in round 12 against Yamanaka knowing that he needed a KO, he lacked the power to get it but went out for it

MMA should have open scoring as well, though it does only seem to be professional combat sports.

You keep bringing up Japan like its some kind of role model for the world to follow

This is unfortunate.

Do you know how corrupt boxing is in Japan? some of the worst decisions of all time have been foreigners fighting Japanese in Japan. The whole boxing scene is controlled by the Yakuza, who fix fights (big and small) on a regular basis.

I am skeptical of the validity of any combat sport in Japan, there have been toooo many obvious fixes over the years. They always want to put on a show and the sport is 2nd to the show.
Notice how fights in Japan are rarely boring?[/quote]


Using Japan as the basis for the conversation as they use it domestically, something that no other country does. Other countries use it for WBC fights only, meaning the sample from Japan is larger than anywhere else.

Boxing is corrupt everywhere we see it every week like the Hernandez card last night.

[Khaosai-Galaxy]

Have you ever been to Japan?

[Rexob]

Keep it as it is there is nothing quite like a controversial decision, it's what boxing has always thrived on, and keeps the masses interested.