Soviet invasion

[ikorolev]

Let's try creating top 10 p4p list of guys from post-Soviet territories. As many of them just starting in professionals, please base on a reasonable combination of who would beat who and combined amateur/professional resumes. This is not some ethnic or nationalist poll, but just boxers belonging to a distinct boxing school. Feel free to include fighters I missed which you think belong to top 10 post-Soviet p4p.
I am also including a poll which is unfortunately limited to 10 options.

Klitchko
Povetkin
Drozd
Lebedev
Usyk
Kovalev
Beterbiev
Mekhontsev
Fedor Chudinov
Golovkin
Korobov
Dmitry Chudinov
Khytrov
Provodnikov
Postol
Allakhverdiev
Shafikov
Troyanovsky
Lomachenko
Gradovich

[dominik]

the soviets currently really dominate the upper weight classes.

best boxer by class:

HW: klitschko
LHW: kovalev
MW: golovkin

only the CW and SMW are not dominated by a soviet but the CW might change with usyk soon.

[klitoris]

Can we get out of this soviet/not-soviet mentality already? It's been 23 years since that horrid union broke up, just accept it. None of the new fighters coming out of former soviet nations identify themselves as part of the "soviet school". Even Klitschko is more of a German school product than a Soviet product, even though I'm well aware that he earned his gold medal with soviet coaching. The two big centers of boxing in the soviet union - Ukraine and Russia have went their separate ways and developed their own unique identities. Even the Kazakh fighters are different.

[handsofstone]

Whereas Brits and Americans come in all shapes and sizes,over the Eastern Block they look massive and strong,while Asians are prodominantly small,if the Soviet boxers are starting to get the correct nurturing and the growing trend of turning pro continues,then this could be the way for a while and we'll probably see fighters better than GGG and Kovalev etc

[Boxing Writer]

Klitschko, Golovkin, Kovalev and Lomachenko are the best right now, Usyk and Beterbiev are the best of the prospects in my opinion. There are a lot of really talented guys with a great potential from the former USSR. I think Chudinov brothers are the least talented fighters on this list, but they are tough guys. I would also add Umar Salamov, Egidijus Kavaliauskas, Oleksandr Gvozdyk and Vyacheslav Shabranskyy to this list. Hopefully Magomedrasul Medzhidovs turns pro after Olympics too, the guy is a monster!

[JMac]

Can we get out of this soviet/not-soviet mentality already? It's been 23 years since that horrid union broke up, just accept it. None of the new fighters coming out of former soviet nations identify themselves as part of the "soviet school". Even Klitschko is more of a German school product than a Soviet product, even though I'm well aware that he earned his gold medal with soviet coaching. The two big centers of boxing in the soviet union - Ukraine and Russia have went their separate ways and developed their own unique identities. Even the Kazakh fighters are different.

Yes the USSR broke up but the boxers today are still influenced by the coaches who came up under that system. The Soviet Union had a great coaching/training system where they learned in school and the highest degree was "Master of Sport". Many of the coaches today either came up in that system or were taught by coaches who did. I can easily tell a boxer who was coached by a master of sport. They have very good fundamentals and throw their punches different from western boxers, especially the cross and hooks. They way they threw the hook was conducive to the amateur scoring system but now they are changing it to put more power behind it. They taught that system to the Cubans many years ago and they too have an excellent coaching training system which is evidence by the results of both Cubans and boxers of former soviet countries. Unfortunately coaches in the US are taught jack sh*t. I am involved with USA Boxing on a national level and I can tell you our system sucks and so do most of our coaches. They think they know everything but they don't do a good job of coaching fundamentals.
You'll probably say but look at guys like Kovalev, they have US coaches now and they do so that they can learn the pro style but their fundamentals were taught to them long before they came to the US.

[GilFilmore]

There is a welterweight named Egidijus Kavaliauskas on the rise in the welterweight division. He's fighting Jaime Herrera on 13 December in Vegas.

[Blodhemn]

Yes the USSR broke up but the boxers today are still influenced by the coaches who came up under that system. The Soviet Union had a great coaching/training system where they learned in school and the highest degree was "Master of Sport". Many of the coaches today either came up in that system or were taught by coaches who did. I can easily tell a boxer who was coached by a master of sport. They have very good fundamentals and throw their punches different from western boxers, especially the cross and hooks. They way they threw the hook was conducive to the amateur scoring system but now they are changing it to put more power behind it. They taught that system to the Cubans many years ago and they too have an excellent coaching training system which is evidence by the results of both Cubans and boxers of former soviet countries. Unfortunately coaches in the US are taught jack sh*t. I am involved with USA Boxing on a national level and I can tell you our system sucks and so do most of our coaches. They think they know everything but they don't do a good job of coaching fundamentals.
You'll probably say but look at guys like Kovalev, they have US coaches now and they do so that they can learn the pro style but their fundamentals were taught to them long before they came to the US.

Sounds like the attitude of many American forum members - know-it-all attitude but get things so wrong that they stay in a world of delusion. Good post.

[thomasjkelley]

Vassiliy Jirov was always a favorite of mine. In my opinion, although I would defer to JMac's expertise, Jirov's style epitomized the Soviet style of fighting. Although he spent his entire professional career in the US, I believe it was to late for him to benefit from exposure to a different way of thinking. It appears as if the Soviet amateur style of boxing was ingrained in his DNA. He threw punches from some of the most bizarre angles, and he was one tough s.o.b. I enjoyed watching him fight.

[ikorolev]

Vassiliy Jirov was always a favorite of mine. In my opinion, although I would defer to JMac's expertise, Jirov's style epitomized the Soviet style of fighting. Although he spent his entire professional career in the US, I believe it was to late for him to benefit from exposure to a different way of thinking. It appears as if the Soviet amateur style of boxing was ingrained in his DNA. He threw punches from some of the most bizarre angles, and he was one tough s.o.b. I enjoyed watching him fight.

I meant current boxers only. Otherwise, I would certainly mention Tziu and Jirov.

[ikorolev]

I think the main reason (as it quite often happens) is money. Boxers, especially better ones, are just getting more money when fighting in the U.S. or Western Europe. I don't think many people in Russia are ready to pay significant money for watching boxing. A PPV attempt would most certainly fail.

Also, training conditions, access to good trainers and sparring partners is better in the West.

... and as many Russians, Ukrainians, etc., many boxers from post-Soviet area just prefer to raise their kids in more civilized environment.

[lefty]

I think the main reason (as it quite often happens) is money. Boxers, especially better ones, are just getting more money when fighting in the U.S. or Western Europe. I don't think many people in Russia are ready to pay significant money for watching boxing. A PPV attempt would most certainly fail.

Also, training conditions, access to good trainers and sparring partners is better in the West.

... and as many Russians, Ukrainians, etc., many boxers from post-Soviet area just prefer to raise their kids in more civilized environment.

Are you Russian yourself mate?

[BAD INTENTIONS]

Isn't "Soviet Invasion" an antiquated term used to vilify Russians?

I'm wondering what PED cocktail Kovalev and Glolovkin use. It must be some pretty impressive shit.

[ikorolev]

I think the main reason (as it quite often happens) is money. Boxers, especially better ones, are just getting more money when fighting in the U.S. or Western Europe. I don't think many people in Russia are ready to pay significant money for watching boxing. A PPV attempt would most certainly fail.

Also, training conditions, access to good trainers and sparring partners is better in the West.

... and as many Russians, Ukrainians, etc., many boxers from post-Soviet area just prefer to raise their kids in more civilized environment.

Are you Russian yourself mate?

I thought it was obvious ...

[reggaereggae]

Wow some serious talents here. I like Kovalev, Lomachenko and GGG the most.

Funnily enough, the first Soviet wave was a disappointment to say the least. Yuri Vaulin, Victor Egorov and some one else were the first. All flopped.

But now, they're dominating. And unlike top US fighters like Floyd and B Hop, and even the retired DLH. They're not safety first. They're good to watch.

Risk taking and no sh1t taking (I'm quite proud of that rhyme :-)

Main problem from a marketing perspective is language and modesty. East Euros are not big on boasting.

[SerhiyVan]

Ukrainian boxer Sergiy Derevyanchenko

[victor-romeo]

Lomachenko and Kovalev my favorites of the bunch. From what I have seen Usyk has huge upside although I am ambivalent about him as a fan so far.

[hulkmaniac]

I don't mean to be racist, but I am having a difficult time keeping up with these names.

[Ian1973]

Wow some serious talents here. I like Kovalev, Lomachenko and GGG the most.

Funnily enough, the first Soviet wave was a disappointment to say the least. Yuri Vaulin, Victor Egorov and some one else were the first. All flopped.

But now, they're dominating. And unlike top US fighters like Floyd and B Hop, and even the retired DLH. They're not safety first. They're good to watch.

Risk taking and no sh1t taking (I'm quite proud of that rhyme :-)

Main problem from a marketing perspective is language and modesty. East Euros are not big on boasting.

That is a massive plus in my book. Don't get me wrong it is good to see "technical" boxers sometimes but you can be technical and be on the front foot, so many of the best boxes over the last few years have been very much of a safety first mentality and that doesn't half make for boring contests at times.

Not all "ex Soviets" are attack minded (look at Wlad) but it's great to see the likes of Golovkin and Kovalev excelling. It's good for the sport.

[ikorolev]

Of course, good marketing can change things, but I am not sure how soon and how drastically. I am a little behind on prices over there, but I believe that theater and classical music concerts are relatively cheap in Russia, and I have a hard time to believe that many people will pay more for boxing than for those events.

[reggaereggae]

Wow some serious talents here. I like Kovalev, Lomachenko and GGG the most.

Funnily enough, the first Soviet wave was a disappointment to say the least. Yuri Vaulin, Victor Egorov and some one else were the first. All flopped.

But now, they're dominating. And unlike top US fighters like Floyd and B Hop, and even the retired DLH. They're not safety first. They're good to watch.

Risk taking and no sh1t taking (I'm quite proud of that rhyme :-)

Main problem from a marketing perspective is language and modesty. East Euros are not big on boasting.

That is a massive plus in my book. Don't get me wrong it is good to see "technical" boxers sometimes but you can be technical and be on the front foot, so many of the best boxes over the last few years have been very much of a safety first mentality and that doesn't half make for boring contests at times.

Not all "ex Soviets" are attack minded (look at Wlad) but it's great to see the likes of Golovkin and Kovalev excelling. It's good for the sport.

Good point. Wlad is as careful and unexciting as PBF.) but generally they fight more old school, to win, and by stoppage.
The other thing I like about the ex Soviet boxers (and this is fairly recent.) is that they step up early, not protected.

Eg Lomachenko (clearly), Usyk, Beterbiev

[Evander]

The Russians came along after the Americans found other things to do.

[Evander]

The Americans developed and nurtured it.

All roads go through the U.S.A.

[Evander]

When everyone was poor the Black Americans kicked everyone ass.

[Evander]

Yeah I know
It's got to be said.

To the Russians
You got Kovalev ... Love him he's a mad puncher and great for the sport.

GGG ... He's not yours.