changed my assessment on the HW division

[man]

i think it ain't that weak anymore. if your measurement
is the ATG packed peak years in the early seventies or
mid nineties, you probably have a distorted view.

but reality is there are interesting fights. current champ
just delivered a great performance. contenders line up.
fury always looks fluffy, but obviously has stamina.

chisora-haye was an exciting non-tactical go for it type
of bout. wilder may still be exposed, but so far he simply
wasn't. pulev was an overwhelmed, but undoubtedly brave
contender.

so, i am actually interested again in the division.

[Ian1973]

It IS an interesting division now. If you are American biased or live in the "70's / 80's worlds were best" world then nothing will sway you whatever happens.

We have a great champion (mockers carry on making yourselves look silly) and we have genuine and unbeaten contenders like wilder, Fury, even joshua. I was VERY impressed with Fury's boxing last night.

I'm excited by it anyway. D D D

[jamesmcdonnell]

i think it ain't that weak anymore. if your measurement
is the ATG packed peak years in the early seventies or
mid nineties, you probably have a distorted view.

but reality is there are interesting fights. current champ
just delivered a great performance. contenders line up.
fury always looks fluffy, but obviously has stamina.

chisora-haye was an exciting non-tactical go for it type
of bout. wilder may still be exposed, but so far he simply
wasn't. pulev was an overwhelmed, but undoubtedly brave
contender.

so, i am actually interested again in the division.

The Fury v Chisora bout was dismal.

[dominik]

the HW is still rather weak but it is getting better.

in the mid to late 00s the HW was just flat out terrible with washed up guys like maskaev and ruiz still winning titles, but now while we don't have many great fighters we do have a couple interesting fighters with joshua, wilder, pulev, povetkin and hopefully haye again (he is a loud mouth but definitely a great boxer that would improve the division a lot if he comes back).

those are of course not ATGs by any means but they are solid fighters that can make interesting bouts. definitely more interesting than 5 or 6 years ago.

[cjdragon]

the HW is still rather weak but it is getting better.

in the mid to late 00s the HW was just flat out terrible with washed up guys like maskaev and ruiz still winning titles, but now while we don't have many great fighters we do have a couple interesting fighters with joshua, wilder, pulev, povetkin and hopefully haye again (he is a loud mouth but definitely a great boxer that would improve the division a lot if he comes back).

those are of course not ATGs by any means but they are solid fighters that can make interesting bouts. definitely more interesting than 5 or 6 years ago.

I agree 100%.
Thank heavens the days of Ruiz, Valuev, Maskaev etc holding belts are over.

Here's a question though (hopefully I'm not hijacking the thread): Do you guys think that fights between top-10 fighters would be more frequent if the belts were fragmented? If there were 4 different champs in the division?
Or, does having one universally recognized champion (minus 1 belt) mean the contenders are more likely to fight each other?

Just my opinion but I think having one champion (Wladimir) actually lessens the likelihood of the top-10 contenders fighting each other.
Seems like all they have to do to earn a shot at Wlad is to keep their records intact against mediocre competition, rather than fight amongst themselves?

[man]

i think it ain't that weak anymore. if your measurement
is the ATG packed peak years in the early seventies or
mid nineties, you probably have a distorted view.

but reality is there are interesting fights. current champ
just delivered a great performance. contenders line up.
fury always looks fluffy, but obviously has stamina.

chisora-haye was an exciting non-tactical go for it type
of bout. wilder may still be exposed, but so far he simply
wasn't. pulev was an overwhelmed, but undoubtedly brave
contender.

so, i am actually interested again in the division.

The Fury v Chisora bout was dismal.

i see your point. what i liked is that fury didn't seem
to gas out. i might have to overcome my prejudice
against his shape. to me world class boxers look
better than he does. but he seems to have stamina
and this is what i liked about the fight.

[man]

Here's a question though (hopefully I'm not hijacking the thread): Do you guys think that fights between top-10 fighters would be more frequent if the belts were fragmented? If there were 4 different champs in the division?
Or, does having one universally recognized champion (minus 1 belt) mean the contenders are more likely to fight each other?

Just my opinion but I think having one champion (Wladimir) actually lessens the likelihood of the top-10 contenders fighting each other.
Seems like all they have to do to earn a shot at Wlad is to keep their records intact against mediocre competition, rather than fight amongst themselves?

i like that the belts are united and we do not
have four mini-champs but a real one. it seems
to me that this is more what fans want.

[cjdragon]

Here's a question though (hopefully I'm not hijacking the thread): Do you guys think that fights between top-10 fighters would be more frequent if the belts were fragmented? If there were 4 different champs in the division?
Or, does having one universally recognized champion (minus 1 belt) mean the contenders are more likely to fight each other?

Just my opinion but I think having one champion (Wladimir) actually lessens the likelihood of the top-10 contenders fighting each other.
Seems like all they have to do to earn a shot at Wlad is to keep their records intact against mediocre competition, rather than fight amongst themselves?

i like that the belts are united and we do not
have four mini-champs but a real one. it seems
to me that this is more what fans want.

Oh definitely. I'm always glad when there's only one champ, no doubt.
In fact I asked a rather silly question, as no one in their right mind would want 3-5 Heavyweight "titlists". :)

But I was just thinking about the early-mid 80's when there were three champs at any given time (pre-Tyson), which resulted in a lot of competitive fights amongst the top 10 at the time.

[wvboxer]

Glad to see some optimism. I haven't seen a good hw fight in awhile. I've only seen a few good fights period recently though. I guess I'm one of the 70's & 80's fossils everyone is waiting to die out. Lol. I actually lived through much of the 80's but didn't discover 70's boxing until much later.

[expe]

Here's a question though (hopefully I'm not hijacking the thread): Do you guys think that fights between top-10 fighters would be more frequent if the belts were fragmented? If there were 4 different champs in the division?
Or, does having one universally recognized champion (minus 1 belt) mean the contenders are more likely to fight each other?

Just my opinion but I think having one champion (Wladimir) actually lessens the likelihood of the top-10 contenders fighting each other.
Seems like all they have to do to earn a shot at Wlad is to keep their records intact against mediocre competition, rather than fight amongst themselves?

i like that the belts are united and we do not
have four mini-champs but a real one. it seems
to me that this is more what fans want.

It's good that we have one champion, but all we get is fighters sitting around, taking easy fights until they get a shot. Wlad's a great champion, but when he retires it will throw the division wide open, fights will start to happen far more often than they do now.

[HomicideHenry]

I said it weeks ago on this very forum, that this is an era of exciting fights and competitive fights... people automatically said I didn't have a clue... but when you subtract Vladimir from the mix, you can see the talent pool is alot better and interesting than it was 10 years ago when Lennox Lewis was around.

[man]

I said it weeks ago on this very forum, that this is an era of exciting fights and competitive fights... people automatically said I didn't have a clue... but when you subtract Vladimir from the mix, you can see the talent pool is alot better and interesting than it was 10 years ago when Lennox Lewis was around.

don't understand your point. subtracting the
best talent shows how big the talent is overall,
including that talent? is that what you are saying?

[cjdragon]

Glad to see some optimism. I haven't seen a good hw fight in awhile. I've only seen a few good fights period recently though. I guess I'm one of the 70's & 80's fossils everyone is waiting to die out. Lol. I actually lived through much of the 80's but didn't discover 70's boxing until much later.

Don't die on us Wvboxer! :)
I enjoy your posts.

[Cap]

That farce only showed how much worse than Haye Fury is.

[tiny_acres]

That farce only showed how much worse than Haye Fury is.

And how is Haye so much better than Fury?????
By not fighting in 2 and a half years?
For beating the same Chisora that Fury beat?
By only having one top 10 win in the last 5 years?
Tell us how Haye is so much better

[HomicideHenry]

That farce only showed how much worse than Haye Fury is.

Really as competitive as the Haye-Chisora fight was... it just solidifies in my mind, that had Fury fought Haye, the result of that fight would of been almost the same as last night's bout... whether you like Fury or not he is far more skilled than Valuev was and can do more in the ring than Valuev could, and the Valuev fight was very close and dull.

[Cap]

That farce only showed how much worse than Haye Fury is.

Really as competitive as the Haye-Chisora fight was... it just solidifies in my mind, that had Fury fought Haye, the result of that fight would of been almost the same as last night's bout... whether you like Fury or not he is far more skilled than Valuev was and can do more in the ring than Valuev could, and the Valuev fight was very close and dull.

Wow. More skilled than Valuev! What a compliment.

I think everyone here needs to go to Youtube right now and watch classic fights from the 60s to see real boxing. A nearly seven foot tall clown poking a shlub like Chisora round after round after round is not boxing. Its not even good circus.

[Cap]

That farce only showed how much worse than Haye Fury is.

And how is Haye so much better than Fury?????
By not fighting in 2 and a half years?
For beating the same Chisora that Fury beat?
By only having one top 10 win in the last 5 years?
Tell us how Haye is so much better

Haye, not much to speak of himself, destroyed Chisora, a second or third rater. Fury hit Chisora about as hard as a guy gets hit in light sparring and Chisora was useless. It was sickening. If that fiasco is what boxing has sunk to then it's time to call it quits.

[Lackeos]

Just my opinion but I think having one champion (Wladimir) actually lessens the likelihood of the top-10 contenders fighting each other.
Seems like all they have to do to earn a shot at Wlad is to keep their records intact against mediocre competition, rather than fight amongst themselves?

No. With Wlad being the only champion, there's only about 1.5 title shots up for grabs in any given year. If you're the #20 guy in the division, and you don't do anything to advance your candidacy, then you might be waiting 14 years before you get a title shot. If you don't want to be at the very back of a very slow-moving line, then you need to fight another contender to cut ahead.

If there's 5 separate champions, each defending their belts about twice per year, then that's 10 title defenses per year. If you're the #20 guy in the division, and you do literally nothing, you are bound to get a shot at some belt in the next 2 years without even doing anything at all.

The reason contenders used to try to wait and get title shots by attrition was because there were 2-3 champions (Wlad, Vitali, Haye/Povetkin), so there were more title shots given out each year, plus the Klitschkos were cleaning-out the division that much faster with there being two of them. With just the one Wlad, the division is definitely going to be cleaned-out at a slower rate now, except for cases where contenders fight each other.

[cjdragon]

Just my opinion but I think having one champion (Wladimir) actually lessens the likelihood of the top-10 contenders fighting each other.
Seems like all they have to do to earn a shot at Wlad is to keep their records intact against mediocre competition, rather than fight amongst themselves?

No. With Wlad being the only champion, there's only about 1.5 title shots up for grabs in any given year. If you're the #20 guy in the division, and you don't do anything to advance your candidacy, then you might be waiting 14 years before you get a title shot. If you don't want to be at the very back of a very slow-moving line, then you need to fight another contender to cut ahead.

If there's 5 separate champions, each defending their belts about twice per year, then that's 10 title defenses per year. If you're the #20 guy in the division, and you do literally nothing, you are bound to get a shot at some belt in the next 2 years without even doing anything at all.

The reason contenders used to try to wait and get title shots by attrition was because there were 2-3 champions (Wlad, Vitali, Haye/Povetkin), so there were more title shots given out each year, plus the Klitschkos were cleaning-out the division that much faster with there being two of them. With just the one Wlad, the division is definitely going to be cleaned-out at a slower rate now, except for cases where contenders fight each other.

Thanks for that extremely informed reply
I had been thinking about this a lot lately.

[Tony1244]

Glad to see some optimism. I haven't seen a good hw fight in awhile. I've only seen a few good fights period recently though. I guess I'm one of the 70's & 80's fossils everyone is waiting to die out. Lol. I actually lived through much of the 80's but didn't discover 70's boxing until much later.

I resemble that remark.


I became a fan in the 1970s and love 70s HW boxing. Anyone can make an argument that period was "overrated," but I'll display you something that 70s HW boxing had , that doesn't exist in the HWs today:


Quarry: Fought Norton, Shavers, Middleton, Ali(2), Frazier(2), Chuvalo, Lyle

Norton: Quarry, Ali(3), Foreman, Middleton, Young, Holmes

Young: Ali, Lyle(2), Shavers (2), Foreman

Foreman: Ali, Young, Frazier(2), Norton, Lyle

I could go on, but you get the point. These guys fought the other top guys.

[cjdragon]

Here are a few fights I'd like to see among the Heavyweights.
Some will happen, some won't and some might.

-Stiverne vs Wilder.
Apparently is going to happen. And it'll go a long way in helping to figure out how good (or not) Wilder really is.
I personally have no idea how to rank a fighter who is 32-0 (32 KO) but has yet to fight a contender.
Stiverne, I don't find very impressive though he can certainly hit hard. Can't wait to see if Wilder can take a heavy blow on the chin.

-Povetkin vs Pulev.
Might be a fun fight.

-Takam vs Chisora.
Just to see which one is still a top-10 fighter in the division.

-Klitschko vs Fury.
Obviously.

-Jennings vs Glazkov.
Two undefeated fighters. I'm a Jennings fan, and would rather not see him get KO'd by Wlad. :)

-Cunningham vs Thompson.
For the official gatekeeper title :)

[jujigatame]

There are a lot of interesting fights in the HW division if promoters just had the balls to make them. I would really like to see more guys putting their 0s on the line in fights like this:

Fury vs. Glazkov
Ruiz vs. Teper
Joshua vs. Browne

But sadly promoters are always afraid to make fights like this.

I'd also like to see Povetkin/Pulev in a sort of "Klitchko consolation" fight.

[cjdragon]

I'd also like to see Povetkin/Pulev in a sort of "Klitchko consolation" fight.

Me too! Neither one could afford to lose, so I think it would be a very competitive fight.

[Bard of Boxrec]

The division stinks. It's ok to admit it and not try and pretend otherwise just to be contrary.