Opinions on
TF vs
Jess Willard
Primo Carnera
Ernie Terrell
Beast from the East
and the Prime KlotchKo's
Tyson Fury vs "The Giant Champs of the Ring"
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dempseyfire
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 5534
- Joined: 29 Oct 2003, 22:56
Re: Tyson Fury vs "The Giant Champs of the Ring"
Willard hit way harder and was actually quick and athletic himself for a guy his size. Over 10 rounds Fury could maybe sneak a decision but longer than that and Jess grinds him down.
Carnera-Fury would be an ugly, foul filled fight. I've long compared Fury to Ray Impelletiere who Carnera knocked out. Even fight.
I'm actually extremely confident Terrell would've jabbed the crap out of Fury; far quicker and can hold his own with the dirty inside work. Terrell by decision.
Fury would outpoint a slower Valuev but Nicolay would have some moments in the exchanges. Fury by decision.
Vitali stops him; given the one-sided nature of this weekend's loss I think he gives any Wlad big problems.
Carnera-Fury would be an ugly, foul filled fight. I've long compared Fury to Ray Impelletiere who Carnera knocked out. Even fight.
I'm actually extremely confident Terrell would've jabbed the crap out of Fury; far quicker and can hold his own with the dirty inside work. Terrell by decision.
Fury would outpoint a slower Valuev but Nicolay would have some moments in the exchanges. Fury by decision.
Vitali stops him; given the one-sided nature of this weekend's loss I think he gives any Wlad big problems.
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Tuan_Jim
- Heavyweight
Re: Tyson Fury vs "The Giant Champs of the Ring"
What about Tony Tucker? I think TNT would knock Fury's block off. Bowe and Lewis would be massacres.
Re: Tyson Fury vs "The Giant Champs of the Ring"
I did not include anyone 6'5" or shorter in this scenario.
So TNT and Lewis were not invited.
Though your observation is probably correct.
So TNT and Lewis were not invited.
Though your observation is probably correct.
Re: Tyson Fury vs "The Giant Champs of the Ring"
Don't agree on Terrell but as for the rest I side with Demspey... Though I think Willard would beat Fury inside the 10 rounds.
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BroughtonRulesRefuge
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 2773
- Joined: 16 Dec 2008, 06:55
Re: Tyson Fury vs "The Giant Champs of the Ring"
- Nobody knows much more about Fury now than they did before where the two year old Teddy Atlas wannabes picked against him in every other fight from the beginning of his career.
He's had the last laugh on his goofus critics for sure, but he has the entire front end of his prime ahead of him to prove. I know this about him, he loves a good scrap and boxing flows from him like a river, the ultimate freestylist. 6-9, 250lbs in shape with a 85" reach, stamina out his kazoo, quick hands/feet, obvious strength enough to throw the massively strong Wlad off balance most every time he tried to clinch, he's gonna beat at least most HOF champs under their rules in their day, starting with Corbett, Burns, Johnson and Fitz, walks in the park for him. Tunney, Sharkey, Schmeling, Braddock, Charles, Jersey Joe, Rocky, Patterson, Terrell who has no power to keep Fury off him, all the 80's fighters including tubby Larry, Big Dummy and Mr. Field, the WBA clowns from 1999 forward save Valuev and Wlad, and you get the picture.
Nobody can say with authority how he'd do Willard, Primo, Lewis, and Valuev who was greatly underrated by the usuals. I'd pick Dempsey, Louis, Tyson, and prime Klitschkos over him currently. Got a rematch with Wlad coming up, which if either loses, the usuals will be telling us they told us so from the beginning, being so smart they're all billionaires now from their wagers.
8)
He's had the last laugh on his goofus critics for sure, but he has the entire front end of his prime ahead of him to prove. I know this about him, he loves a good scrap and boxing flows from him like a river, the ultimate freestylist. 6-9, 250lbs in shape with a 85" reach, stamina out his kazoo, quick hands/feet, obvious strength enough to throw the massively strong Wlad off balance most every time he tried to clinch, he's gonna beat at least most HOF champs under their rules in their day, starting with Corbett, Burns, Johnson and Fitz, walks in the park for him. Tunney, Sharkey, Schmeling, Braddock, Charles, Jersey Joe, Rocky, Patterson, Terrell who has no power to keep Fury off him, all the 80's fighters including tubby Larry, Big Dummy and Mr. Field, the WBA clowns from 1999 forward save Valuev and Wlad, and you get the picture.
Nobody can say with authority how he'd do Willard, Primo, Lewis, and Valuev who was greatly underrated by the usuals. I'd pick Dempsey, Louis, Tyson, and prime Klitschkos over him currently. Got a rematch with Wlad coming up, which if either loses, the usuals will be telling us they told us so from the beginning, being so smart they're all billionaires now from their wagers.
8)
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Tuan_Jim
- Heavyweight
Re: Tyson Fury vs "The Giant Champs of the Ring"
HOFs aren't as passive and petrified as Wladimir Klitschko. The small, non-punching Neven Pajkic put him on his back, the 36 year old Steve Cunningham decked him with one shot, Chisora and Firtha were both wobbling him in their pub brawl fights, and yet because the mentally frail WK once again unravelled Fury is now beating every man in heavyweight history?
People who rate Wladimir Klitschko really rate him highly, don't they? Then again, the man complaining that the protected Nikolay Valuev was underrated when he was soundly outboxed by Ruslan Chagaev and a 46 year old Evander Holyfield clearly demonstrate their suggestibility.
People who rate Wladimir Klitschko really rate him highly, don't they? Then again, the man complaining that the protected Nikolay Valuev was underrated when he was soundly outboxed by Ruslan Chagaev and a 46 year old Evander Holyfield clearly demonstrate their suggestibility.
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HomicideHenry
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 18722
- Joined: 08 Sep 2005, 00:43
Re: Tyson Fury vs "The Giant Champs of the Ring"
I always say, when you have rather large men with skills, they often look ridiculous because they are so leggy, etc. so people always assume that they are not as skilled as they are because they do not look as graceful as men in the 200 pound region like Louis, Dempsey, Ali, Tunney, etc. but Fury is rather skilled and fast and hard to hit for being 6'9" and anywhere from 245-260 pounds.
Considering how Klitschko, before this fight, was in several debates and arguments over his "all-time-great" status and ranking and there were many (including myself) who felt he was top ten-fifteen worthy and because of his own size would have presented problems to alot of men with greater resumes--- I find it ironic how people are debating whether Fury would have faired against the "lesser" champions of history, when he's already beaten (rather decisively and easily) one of the more dominate champions of any division of the passed twenty to thirty years.
Jess Willard, tough as he was, strong as he was, would have lasted til the final bell against Fury--- but he was an extremely limited fighter. By his own admission during the NCR-315 computer tournaments he would jab and throw uppercuts and little else in fights. Considering how much of a switch hitter Fury is, and as fast and hard to hit as Fury is--- I have no problem in believing Fury would win a 12 round decision, and by all rounds.
Primo Carnera, often described by many on this forum as a manufactured fighter who competed in fixed fights, was better than people realize. Sure he wasn't a top ten, fifteen or even top twenty heavyweight of all time---- but any man who could last eleven rounds with Max Baer, and win decisions over the likes of Tommy Loughran and Paulino Uzcudon was not manufactured. Carnera was well conditioned, and tough. Problem with him, though, was he has no fluidity in his punches and was the originator of the clinch/push style that Klitschko would later perfect. Because he is virtually an identical twin to Klitschko in this regard, I have no issue or problem either, in imagining Fury decisioning Carnera just like he did Klitschko---- if not by a wider margin because Carnera was slower and less the tactician that Vladimir is.
Ernie Terrell, is one of the great enigmas of boxing as nobody knows where to really rank him. He fought hard decisions over Chuvalo and Wepner. And yet he did appear to be a skillful man. However, despite his height, and reach he was a bean pole. Standing 6'6" he weighed between 195 and 205 pounds. When he fought Muhammad Ali he was only 212 pounds. Compare the size of some men Fury has fought, like Cunningham (6'3" 220 pounds) being among the smallest---- I do not think Terrell would have the size, endurance, or punch resistence. Cleveland Williams stopped Terrell in seven rounds, and Ernie was running most of the time. Not to equate Fury with a powerful puncher like Williams, but never the less. I can see Fury either easily outboxing the man, or stopping him inside of five-six rounds cus the size is too much.
As for Nicolai Valuev..... If Evander Holyfield could dance rings around the man, and get robbed horribly against him.... If Valuev fought incredibly close and controversial fights against John Ruiz... I think its a "foregone conclusion" (as Fury's father would say) that Valuev at 7'0" and 320 pounds would lose to Tyson Fury. If David Haye could wobble the big man and hardly hit him over twelve rounds---- I can see Fury not only touching the man often, but also dropping the man.
As for the Klitschko's...... I think considering everyone before the fight was saying Vladimir was in his prime (still) you may as well forget asking that question, because Fury has already done it.... so that leaves Vitali, who some believe is the better brother... Vitali has a more open defense and style, as though he never dropped the martial arts stance of his kickboxing days... He has a greater chin, and has a greater punch than Vladimir.... Is he the better tactician/boxer? No.... But he is more willing to mix it up... The only man he ever fought comparable in height and weight was Lennox Lewis... He does have a few opponents in common with Fury (Chisora, Johnson) and one can argue he was more effective against them than Fury.
So what is my verdict? I guess it all comes down to, when exactly was Vitali's prime? When he lost to Lewis? Or when he came back and was beating guys like Tomasz Adamek? If one asks Johnson and Chisora, they will tell you Fury was harder to reach and get to than Vitali. But they will also tell you that Vitali was the hardest puncher they ever faced bare none. Both Vitali and Fury are awkward, both are willing to engage... I guess it depends on whether Klitschko can land, and land often... It also depends on whether Vitali can deal with how awkward and fast Fury is... Personally, that is a fight I can't answer as to who would win... Its the only question mark in the entire list.
Considering how Klitschko, before this fight, was in several debates and arguments over his "all-time-great" status and ranking and there were many (including myself) who felt he was top ten-fifteen worthy and because of his own size would have presented problems to alot of men with greater resumes--- I find it ironic how people are debating whether Fury would have faired against the "lesser" champions of history, when he's already beaten (rather decisively and easily) one of the more dominate champions of any division of the passed twenty to thirty years.
Jess Willard, tough as he was, strong as he was, would have lasted til the final bell against Fury--- but he was an extremely limited fighter. By his own admission during the NCR-315 computer tournaments he would jab and throw uppercuts and little else in fights. Considering how much of a switch hitter Fury is, and as fast and hard to hit as Fury is--- I have no problem in believing Fury would win a 12 round decision, and by all rounds.
Primo Carnera, often described by many on this forum as a manufactured fighter who competed in fixed fights, was better than people realize. Sure he wasn't a top ten, fifteen or even top twenty heavyweight of all time---- but any man who could last eleven rounds with Max Baer, and win decisions over the likes of Tommy Loughran and Paulino Uzcudon was not manufactured. Carnera was well conditioned, and tough. Problem with him, though, was he has no fluidity in his punches and was the originator of the clinch/push style that Klitschko would later perfect. Because he is virtually an identical twin to Klitschko in this regard, I have no issue or problem either, in imagining Fury decisioning Carnera just like he did Klitschko---- if not by a wider margin because Carnera was slower and less the tactician that Vladimir is.
Ernie Terrell, is one of the great enigmas of boxing as nobody knows where to really rank him. He fought hard decisions over Chuvalo and Wepner. And yet he did appear to be a skillful man. However, despite his height, and reach he was a bean pole. Standing 6'6" he weighed between 195 and 205 pounds. When he fought Muhammad Ali he was only 212 pounds. Compare the size of some men Fury has fought, like Cunningham (6'3" 220 pounds) being among the smallest---- I do not think Terrell would have the size, endurance, or punch resistence. Cleveland Williams stopped Terrell in seven rounds, and Ernie was running most of the time. Not to equate Fury with a powerful puncher like Williams, but never the less. I can see Fury either easily outboxing the man, or stopping him inside of five-six rounds cus the size is too much.
As for Nicolai Valuev..... If Evander Holyfield could dance rings around the man, and get robbed horribly against him.... If Valuev fought incredibly close and controversial fights against John Ruiz... I think its a "foregone conclusion" (as Fury's father would say) that Valuev at 7'0" and 320 pounds would lose to Tyson Fury. If David Haye could wobble the big man and hardly hit him over twelve rounds---- I can see Fury not only touching the man often, but also dropping the man.
As for the Klitschko's...... I think considering everyone before the fight was saying Vladimir was in his prime (still) you may as well forget asking that question, because Fury has already done it.... so that leaves Vitali, who some believe is the better brother... Vitali has a more open defense and style, as though he never dropped the martial arts stance of his kickboxing days... He has a greater chin, and has a greater punch than Vladimir.... Is he the better tactician/boxer? No.... But he is more willing to mix it up... The only man he ever fought comparable in height and weight was Lennox Lewis... He does have a few opponents in common with Fury (Chisora, Johnson) and one can argue he was more effective against them than Fury.
So what is my verdict? I guess it all comes down to, when exactly was Vitali's prime? When he lost to Lewis? Or when he came back and was beating guys like Tomasz Adamek? If one asks Johnson and Chisora, they will tell you Fury was harder to reach and get to than Vitali. But they will also tell you that Vitali was the hardest puncher they ever faced bare none. Both Vitali and Fury are awkward, both are willing to engage... I guess it depends on whether Klitschko can land, and land often... It also depends on whether Vitali can deal with how awkward and fast Fury is... Personally, that is a fight I can't answer as to who would win... Its the only question mark in the entire list.
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Ambling Alp II
- Super Middleweight
- Posts: 15181
- Joined: 04 Nov 2012, 18:31
Re: Tyson Fury vs "The Giant Champs of the Ring"
They sure do. Whenever he loses he wasn't in his prime. His best win is over Chris Byrd. People that don't know better are impressed with the number of title defenses.Tuan_Jim wrote:HOFs aren't as passive and petrified as Wladimir Klitschko. The small, non-punching Neven Pajkic put him on his back, the 36 year old Steve Cunningham decked him with one shot, Chisora and Firtha were both wobbling him in their pub brawl fights, and yet because the mentally frail WK once again unravelled Fury is now beating every man in heavyweight history?
People who rate Wladimir Klitschko really rate him highly, don't they? Then again, the man complaining that the protected Nikolay Valuev was underrated when he was soundly outboxed by Ruslan Chagaev and a 46 year old Evander Holyfield clearly demonstrate their suggestibility.
His brother lost to Byrd and somehow gets credit for losing in six rounds to an obese Lennox Lewis. His best win is over the legendary Corrie Sanders.
Fury doesn't show much so far.
Re: Tyson Fury vs "The Giant Champs of the Ring"
I personally think Tyson beats most of the monsters of yesteryear based on his fast hands and superior mobility as well as the fact that he has sufficient size and strength not to be mauled into submission. Some good refereeing needed in some of these fights though!
Could see him making a bit of a mess of Valuev to be honest - coming in and out with relative ease - and maybe doing some work to the body.
Just do not know enough about Carnera to be certain, but the guy must have been known as the Ambling Alp for a reason and I have always been under the impression that he was a lightly regarded heavyweight champ who was kind of manoeuvred to the title? Happy to be pulled-up on this.
A prime Vitali would have been very dangerous though; based on the fact that he was actually mobile enough to get at Tyson and threw plenty of solid, thudding punches for a big man. Vitali would have also chanced his arm against Tyson I think, he was rugged and had a top chin, and had that nasty streak that as well. If Vitali could make it a battle-of-wills then it gets very interesting indeed.
A fun fight would have been Cooney - who does not make the cut as he was not a world belt holder - but I'd love to have seen a St. Patrick's Day showdown at the MSG between these two Green Giants. Massive overhand from Cooney early doors and Tyson forced to survive some rounds whilst he tries to clear his head; does have the makings of a good one?
Could see him making a bit of a mess of Valuev to be honest - coming in and out with relative ease - and maybe doing some work to the body.
Just do not know enough about Carnera to be certain, but the guy must have been known as the Ambling Alp for a reason and I have always been under the impression that he was a lightly regarded heavyweight champ who was kind of manoeuvred to the title? Happy to be pulled-up on this.
A prime Vitali would have been very dangerous though; based on the fact that he was actually mobile enough to get at Tyson and threw plenty of solid, thudding punches for a big man. Vitali would have also chanced his arm against Tyson I think, he was rugged and had a top chin, and had that nasty streak that as well. If Vitali could make it a battle-of-wills then it gets very interesting indeed.
A fun fight would have been Cooney - who does not make the cut as he was not a world belt holder - but I'd love to have seen a St. Patrick's Day showdown at the MSG between these two Green Giants. Massive overhand from Cooney early doors and Tyson forced to survive some rounds whilst he tries to clear his head; does have the makings of a good one?
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HomicideHenry
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 18722
- Joined: 08 Sep 2005, 00:43
Re: Tyson Fury vs "The Giant Champs of the Ring"
Bodyshot3 wrote: A fun fight would have been Cooney - who does not make the cut as he was not a world belt holder - but I'd love to have seen a St. Patrick's Day showdown at the MSG between these two Green Giants. Massive overhand from Cooney early doors and Tyson forced to survive some rounds whilst he tries to clear his head; does have the makings of a good one?
When I first saw Fury, my first remark was "He's Gerry Cooney, with the skills."
As large as Cooney was, in comparison he's rather small to Tyson. I think Cooney was somewhere around 6'6"-6'7" and 225-235 pounds. Tyson, as we have seen, has made a man larger than Cooney (and more skilled) look relatively weak and ordinary. Cooney's best attributes was his dynamite left hook and his tremendous heart and willingness to trade. He fought harder in defeat. It would certainly be an exciting fight---- but if Cooney didn't land the bomb on Fury, I think he gets picked apart with Fury's jabs and combinations.
On a side note, when I saw the Klitschko-Fury fight I laughed out loud, because Tyson was clearly employing the herky-jerky style defense that Michael Spinks used. The same style that befuddled Larry Holmes, and also defeated Cooney. However, in all fairness to Cooney, he was a full blown alcoholic and drug addict when he fought Spinks and hadn't fought in a long time.