Weight issue in BN

steve richards · Post by **steve richards** » 09 Jul 2004, 07:40

There is a good article in this weeks boxing news(you can tell im flat out at work

) regarding the issue of boxers weights, one quote in there says " recently i saw one boxer in the lighter divisions who had fought at a championship weight three weeks before jump on thescales for a test weigh. he was 26lb heavier than he had been only 21 days before", it looks like the board are going to bring in tighter weigh ins etc, or then again we could have our welter weights fighting at light heavy

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 09 Jul 2004, 07:48

steve richards wrote:There is a good article in this weeks boxing news(you can tell im flat out at work ) regarding the issue of boxers weights, one quote in there says " recently i saw one boxer in the lighter divisions who had fought at a championship weight three weeks before jump on thescales for a test weigh. he was 26lb heavier than he had been only 21 days before", it looks like the board are going to bring in tighter weigh ins etc, or then again we could have our welter weights fighting at light heavy

Michael Gomez weighed 9st 3¾lbs for the Juuko defence on May 22. On June 11, he cheekily jumped on the scales at the Hatton-Vilches weigh-in and weighed 11st 2lbs.

dondada · Post by **dondada** » 09 Jul 2004, 07:54

I don't want to come across all conspiracy theorist, but I suspect that scales for weigh-ins aren't the most scientifically precise instruments in the world.

Almost certainly deliberate in many cases.

I have attended a show in the last year where the scales were five pounds out. Don't ask me how I know...

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 09 Jul 2004, 07:55

Incidentally, Justin Juuko, who claimed on Sky-TV he lost 22lbs in a fortnight to make 9st 4lbs for the Gomez fight (but was only 3lbs over the limit at a check weigh-in three days before the fight), was fined £2,000 of his £22,000 purse for bringing the sport into disrepute by the Board.
Juuko apologised for his comments saying that he made them as a result of confusion, shock and disappointment at his performance.

DavidPayne · Post by **DavidPayne** » 09 Jul 2004, 07:58

bennie wrote:
steve richards wrote:There is a good article in this weeks boxing news(you can tell im flat out at work ) regarding the issue of boxers weights, one quote in there says " recently i saw one boxer in the lighter divisions who had fought at a championship weight three weeks before jump on thescales for a test weigh. he was 26lb heavier than he had been only 21 days before", it looks like the board are going to bring in tighter weigh ins etc, or then again we could have our welter weights fighting at light heavy
Michael Gomez weighed 9st 3¾lbs for the Juuko defence on May 22. On June 11, he cheekily jumped on the scales at the Hatton-Vilches weigh-in and weighed 11st 2lbs.

Michael clearly enjoyed the victory.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 09 Jul 2004, 07:58

Christ what a load of bollocks. If this is the case, will someone tell me how on earth Hatton and Harrison are ever going to be allowed to fight in their respective weight classes again? I only mention them because they are probably the most successful little men in the country, I am sure there are plenty more like them.

Both of them kill themselves to make weight, and Hatton certainly baloons between fights, and both of them come in the ring way over the fighting limit.

DavidPayne · Post by **DavidPayne** » 09 Jul 2004, 08:01

Maybe thats the whole point James.

Stopping fighters cheating their bodies and the system. Is it so long since we saw Gatti v Gamache (sp)?

And to be fair, Harrison v McCullough could easily have gone the same way.

That was a big Bantamweight versus a near Light-Welterweight. Thats not a criticism of anyone. However, fighters have told me that it isn't unknown for them to drain themselves to meet the check weight and then simply rehydrate again before draining again for the official weigh in.

So how do you truly monitor it?

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 09 Jul 2004, 08:05

The Board are very strict on weight matters, but I feel they should move the weigh-in to the day of the fight again, so as to prevent fighters blowing up between the weigh-in and the fight.

journeyman · Post by **journeyman** » 09 Jul 2004, 08:11

the only way to do it is to have regular weight checks throughout camps. and that can only be funded for the big matches. plus, you've got no way of monitoring anyone training overseas, or last minute replacements. the bbbc actually do a very good job on boxers' weights compared to most other governing bodies. the limitations of the sport will always make this difficult. the responsibility inevitabley comes back to the trainers.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 09 Jul 2004, 08:17

Wasn't the rationale for moving it from the day of the fight, to prevent fighters entering the ring terrifcally weight drained? The idea was to give them 24 hours to rehydrate if they were struggling to make weight.

In doing so, we now have fighters weighing in 2 or even 3 weight classes above their opponents, which is just a disaster waiting to happen. Surely the best way is a weigh in on the day, and several weigh ins prior to that.

To do so would require a lot of administration though, it would piss a lot of high profile fighters and their promoters and managers off, and it would require a massive shake up to implement.

I do think though, that no matter how hard it might be to implement, it is worth doing to safeguard the fighters.

knockout · Post by **knockout** » 09 Jul 2004, 08:27

definately same day weigh ins would be better. Fighters dehydrate themselves more now than they used to as they think they have time to put it back on.....

journeyman · Post by **journeyman** » 09 Jul 2004, 08:28

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Wasn't the rationale for moving it from the day of the fight, to prevent fighters entering the ring terrifcally weight drained? The idea was to give them 24 hours to rehydrate if they were struggling to make weight.

In doing so, we now have fighters weighing in 2 or even 3 weight classes above their opponents, which is just a disaster waiting to happen. Surely the best way is a weigh in on the day, and several weigh ins prior to that.

To do so would require a lot of administration though, it would piss a lot of high profile fighters and their promoters and managers off, and it would require a massive shake up to implement.

I do think though, that no matter how hard it might be to implement, it is worth doing to safeguard the fighters.

as i say, though, james, if a fighter trains overseas, you got no jurisdiction to monitor their training camps. you could refuse to license any bouts that don;t comply, but then you'll just see the bigger fights moving away from britain. and how do you fund it? more money cut from the fighters' purses? they unlikely to agree to that, believe me.

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 09 Jul 2004, 08:35

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Wasn't the rationale for moving it from the day of the fight, to prevent fighters entering the ring terrifcally weight drained? The idea was to give them 24 hours to rehydrate if they were struggling to make weight.

In doing so, we now have fighters weighing in 2 or even 3 weight classes above their opponents, which is just a disaster waiting to happen

That's right. Moving the weigh-in back created new, unforseen monsters. The board now do a good job in monitoring a fighter's weight reduction leading up to a fight (I think it was the guru who said they only allow a fighter to lose three or four pounds a week). They pulled out Gavin Rees because he would have to lose to much too quickly recently and Gavin Down because he lost eight pounds in four days leading up to the Junior Witter fight.
But the gap between the weigh-in and the fight is too long in my opinion and allows fighters like Scott Harrison, who kill themselves in training, a chance to pile on the weight before the fight. Would Harrison be boxing at feather if the weigh-in was on the day of the fight and he only had a few hours to pile on the pounds? I doubt it.
Okay, you might argue that Harrison works hard to get down to 9st and deserves the subsequent weight advantage over his opponent come fight time. But that leads to new dangers, of course. We all remember Barry McGuigan, also a 'big' featherweight, knocking out a blown-up bantamweight by the name of Young Ali in six rounds. Ali never recovered, of course.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 09 Jul 2004, 08:43

It's a very tricky one this isn't it? Indeed, what can you do about overseas fighters training camps, and as I said, the extra administration neccesary to get it right would be hard to provide.

I don't think any fighter 'deserves' to have a big weight advantage going in there, the weight classes were first devised to prevent little guys getting smashed to fornicate by big guys, and that principle should be adhered to.

neil r · Post by **neil r** » 09 Jul 2004, 08:44

Wou'd love to comment on this but the bastards didnt deliver my copy of BN today :x :x

I hate being off on Fridays and the BN not arriving

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 09 Jul 2004, 09:01

You poor wittwe wamb. As Elmer Fudd would have it.

"This weawwy is awwwfuwwy good wegg of wamb"

steve richards · Post by **steve richards** » 09 Jul 2004, 09:12

bennie wrote:The Board are very strict on weight matters, but I feel they should move the weigh-in to the day of the fight again, so as to prevent fighters blowing up between the weigh-in and the fight.

If they do weigh ins the day of the fight the big advantage would be lost by people like harrison/hatton etc, if they put in a 1 stone over your fighting weight rule, this would help the boxers and the board keep a tighter control over boxers and help them prolong there careers, it can't be healthy loosing upto 2.5 stone (in some cases) in eight weeks 3 or 4 times a year, i bet there arnt many boxers who when retired balloon 3 or 4 stone in there first year or so out of the ring.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 09 Jul 2004, 09:23

Ooooo I don't know, Lennox is looking mighty big these days, I can well see him balooning to gargantuan proportions if he doesn't watch it.

Freiheit · Post by **Freiheit** » 09 Jul 2004, 09:42

EBU just changed their weigh-in rules. Now the fighters have to weigh-in 3 times before an EBU fight. 15 days before the fight they can only weigh 7% more than the limit. 3 days before the fight they can weight 3% more than the limit. The final weigh-in in the day before weigh-in.
As an exampel: on july 24th Rudy Markussen and Danilo Haussler will fight for the vacent 168 belt. They have to weigh in at 179.75 today. On july 21st they cant weigh more than 173. on july 23rd they have to make the 168 limit.

knockout · Post by **knockout** » 09 Jul 2004, 09:53

all these check weigh ins assume that board officials wont turn a blind eye to big earners over the limit

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 09 Jul 2004, 09:55

This is obviously the most important factor. None of this means shit, unless the regulations are upheld at all times.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 09 Jul 2004, 09:57

I've heard it said by a lot of American writers, that DeLaHoya was allowed to cheat the scales on numerous occasions at the pre weigh-in. He was weighing in as a light welterweight whilst fighting at super featherweight from what I was told. He was weighed on the evening of a contest on the unofficial scales, and apparently outweighed one of his opponents by 15lbs! That's a huge amount of weight advantage at super featherweight.

DavidPayne · Post by **DavidPayne** » 09 Jul 2004, 10:10

Its stories like this that make you realise why ITV have bought NFL and ignored boxing.

And why my sports mad friends couldn't name five fighters if you asked them too. In fact, this is a good challenege.

Ask your sports-but-non-boxing friends to name three active heavyweights.

You'll get LEWIS-TYSON-HARRISON 95% guaranteed. And 95% couldn't name another one except a sprinkling of Herbie Hides and Evander Holyfields.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 09 Jul 2004, 10:19

Yep, it's a vicious circle Dave me old cocker, the less fighters people know, the more difficult it becomes to entice them to watch boxing, and the less people watch, the less fighters they know.

Boxing as a part of the social fabric of society, and part of mainstream sports media, may just be in terminal decline, I think we're seeing a kind of Alamo situation here, unless some fornicating reinforcements come to bolster boxing up, and soon, it's going to gradually dissapear from mainstream sports coverage, never to return.

Perhaps we just live in too civlised and sanitised a society (at least on the surface, truth is the world's as fucked up as it ever was), for Boxing to really have a place amidst the squeaky clean gleaming images that Soccer, American Football, Basketball and F1 can produce. The sight of real blood just isn't as welcome as it once was on the screen.

steve richards · Post by **steve richards** » 09 Jul 2004, 10:27

jamesmcdonnell wrote:I've heard it said by a lot of American writers, that DeLaHoya was allowed to cheat the scales on numerous occasions at the pre weigh-in. He was weighing in as a light welterweight whilst fighting at super featherweight from what I was told. He was weighed on the evening of a contest on the unofficial scales, and apparently outweighed one of his opponents by 15lbs! That's a huge amount of weight advantage at super featherweight.

This is a simular to the Hatton thread i posted weeks ago, if you here the gossip from gyms's fighters you will be shocked to see what people get away with, some fighters have a massive advantage, but is it fair? on one hand you have lets say a natural middle weight who walks around at 12st 6lb he trails hard for a few weeks gets himself tip top and goes into the ring, the other guy is walking around at 13 6lbst and a few pound, he sits in a sauna for 5 hrs a couple of days before the fight hits 160lb, blows back up, who has the advantage?, i would say the second guy because of the natural weight advantage, but the guy who's doing it properly would be around longer

Weight issue in BN

Weight issue in BN

Re: Weight issue in BN

Re: Weight issue in BN