Boxrec ratings

[nivek535]

Has BoxRec ever considered applying the Elo Rating System to boxers?
If considered before, why hasn't it been done?
If not considered, why not?

I like the current rating system, but by introducing the Elo Rating System, we could extract even more information out of the statistics right?

[JCS]

ELO has serious limitations and quite frankly, isn't a great option for a combat sport with infrequent, sporadic schedules and (sometimes) strange matchmaking.

[ikorolev]

ELO has serious limitations and quite frankly, isn't a great option for a combat sport with infrequent, sporadic schedules and (sometimes) strange matchmaking.

I think low frequency equally hurts any rating system, the same way as bad matchmaking. ELO system seems to have more flexibility/accuracy, because it can be based on judges' scores instead of just KO/US/MD/SD options. Of course, judges scores are often faulty, but again that hurts both systems.

[JCS]

ELO has serious limitations and quite frankly, isn't a great option for a combat sport with infrequent, sporadic schedules and (sometimes) strange matchmaking.

I think low frequency equally hurts any rating system, the same way as bad matchmaking. ELO system seems to have more flexibility/accuracy, because it can be based on judges' scores instead of just KO/US/MD/SD options. Of course, judges scores are often faulty, but again that hurts both systems.

MMA ELO is a web site that uses ELO with MMA instead of Boxing. The results are pretty horrible.

[nivek535]

ELO has serious limitations and quite frankly, isn't a great option for a combat sport with infrequent, sporadic schedules and (sometimes) strange matchmaking.

I think low frequency equally hurts any rating system, the same way as bad matchmaking. ELO system seems to have more flexibility/accuracy, because it can be based on judges' scores instead of just KO/US/MD/SD options. Of course, judges scores are often faulty, but again that hurts both systems.

MMA ELO is a web site that uses ELO with MMA instead of Boxing. The results are pretty horrible.

interesting.
care to explain why ELO has serious limitations and the current boxrec ratings is better than it?
Sorry, not necessarily better, but why wouldnt an Elo rating BENEFIT as another point of reference?
care to explain why the results are horrible?

[JCS]

I think low frequency equally hurts any rating system, the same way as bad matchmaking. ELO system seems to have more flexibility/accuracy, because it can be based on judges' scores instead of just KO/US/MD/SD options. Of course, judges scores are often faulty, but again that hurts both systems.

MMA ELO is a web site that uses ELO with MMA instead of Boxing. The results are pretty horrible.

interesting.
care to explain why ELO has serious limitations and the current boxrec ratings is better than it?
Sorry, not necessarily better, but why wouldnt an Elo rating BENEFIT as another point of reference?
care to explain why the results are horrible?

I don't really feel like getting in a long drawn out debate. If you haven't noticed, there is a 100-page post at the top of this board all about the ratings.

ELO was invented for chess. This is a sport where there are still active grandmasters over 80 years old. BoxRec's system was invented for pro boxing. A sport where people get punched in the face.

ELO has (at least) one critical flaw. Fighters' ratings can become bloated just for winning, with no regard for the quality of the opposition. Anderson Silva is still #1 at MW.

Glicko2 would be a better choice than ELO.

[Tony1244]

Boxrec ratings, I think, are based on results, while other ratings, like a magazines, are based on results as well as perceived ability.

And we all know what the alphabets rating are based on: $$$$$$$$$

[tiny_acres]

Just put names in a hat and pull the out randomly.
That would be better than the alphabet bull crap

[ikorolev]

Why are we talking about alphabet ratings? ELO rating are computerized ratings which can be based on scores (judges' cards).

[JCS]

Why are we talking about alphabet ratings? ELO rating are computerized ratings which can be based on scores (judges' cards).

BoxRec ratings factor in scorecards.. what happens when it isn't a decision?

If you want to get hung up on a public rating system with a name, check out Glicko2.

An ELO system would last exactly one day in the boxing world. Once everyone still saw Wladimir as #1, they'd toss it to the curb. Not saying that'd be any different with Glicko2, but it has a volatility factor you could use to help w/ the issue of sporadic scheduling.

[Tony1244]

Why are we talking about alphabet ratings? ELO rating are computerized ratings which can be based on scores (judges' cards).

To educate very new fans, and to continuously remind old fans that the alphabet ratings are 100% Unadulterated Complete BS.

[nivek535]

is my question vague or is everybody just off topic >_>?

[JCS]

is my question vague or is everybody just off topic >_>?

Maybe you're not comprehending my replies?

[Like a Boss]

MMA ELO is a web site that uses ELO with MMA instead of Boxing. The results are pretty horrible.

interesting.
care to explain why ELO has serious limitations and the current boxrec ratings is better than it?
Sorry, not necessarily better, but why wouldnt an Elo rating BENEFIT as another point of reference?
care to explain why the results are horrible?

ELO has (at least) one critical flaw. Fighters' ratings can become bloated just for winning, with no regard for the quality of the opposition. Anderson Silva is still #1 at MW.

If correct, that means an unbeaten club fighter could potentially be rated #1 in the world.

Mind you there are fighters who, in the current climate, are rated top 10 by organisations despite them never having beaten anyone in the top 50, and in the case of some CVs, the top 100.

[Boxing Prospect]

In a semi connected note...Went through the welterweight rankings earlier and spotted Tsiko Mulovhedzi (10-7-3, 6) ranked at #11...certainly raised an eye brow

[JCS]

In a semi connected note...Went through the welterweight rankings earlier and spotted Tsiko Mulovhedzi (10-7-3, 6) ranked at #11...certainly raised an eye brow

Yes, that's the old... regional pooling problem (South Africa in this case). Not that ELO would handle that much better.

[nivek535]

is my question vague or is everybody just off topic >_>?

Maybe you're not comprehending my replies?

how does elo do this?
"ELO has (at least) one critical flaw. Fighters' ratings can become bloated just for winning, with no regard for the quality of the opposition. Anderson Silva is still #1 at MW."
the elo of a boxer will barely change if he defeats a boxer with significantly much lower elo..

[Lennox]

Try these: www.premierboxingorganisation.com

It is a points system but based on connecting fighters that have been matched, so it is primarly based on the man that beat the man.

Problems such as inactivity, not facing good opposition within a time frame, getting old, moving weight classes are all factored in and these are the main problems of any system.

These ratings are the work of 25 years of lineage. The initial database was created by taking every fighter rated by an organisation (main 4) and magazines and then researching their records. Anyone who beat anyone in that first database was added. About 10% of the current top 100 in any weight class have never beaten anyone in the top 100, so they have got there by beating someone in the top 200 and just gaining points for relatively mild fights. It is rare to make the top 70 without fighting decent opposition. Ali Raymi got as high as 46 beating 26 nobodies he could never have done it at the higher weight class though.

[JCS]

is my question vague or is everybody just off topic >_>?

Maybe you're not comprehending my replies?

how does elo do this?
"ELO has (at least) one critical flaw. Fighters' ratings can become bloated just for winning, with no regard for the quality of the opposition. Anderson Silva is still #1 at MW."
the elo of a boxer will barely change if he defeats a boxer with significantly much lower elo..

You should probably read up a bit more on this.. but you answered your own question.

If a fighter gets high enough by continually winning, then when he loses.. like you said, his rating barely changes.

[computerrank]

is my question vague or is everybody just off topic >_>?

Maybe you're not comprehending my replies?

how does elo do this?
"ELO has (at least) one critical flaw. Fighters' ratings can become bloated just for winning, with no regard for the quality of the opposition. Anderson Silva is still #1 at MW."
the elo of a boxer will barely change if he defeats a boxer with significantly much lower elo..

Boxrec elo ratings would look like this

Code: Select all

M Welterweight         1343   46   34 Keith Thurman
M Welterweight         1336   90   34 Timothy Bradley Jr
M Welterweight         1327   44   27 Shawn Porter
M Welterweight         1323   78   31 Amir Khan
M Welterweight         1310  341   39 Manny Pacquiao
M Welterweight         1308   67   28 Danny Garcia
M Welterweight         1280   42   28 Vyacheslav Senchenko
M Welterweight         1274   37   31 Kell Brook
M Welterweight         1271   37   23 Paul Malignaggi
M Welterweight         1269    9   20 Dmitry Mikhaylenko
M Welterweight         1264   15   20 Frankie Gavin

M Super Middleweight   1313  152   29 Andre Dirrell
M Super Middleweight   1294   21   35 James DeGale
M Super Middleweight   1273   20   22 Gilberto Ramirez
M Super Middleweight   1263   14   27 Blake Caparello
M Super Middleweight   1258  130   32 Lucian Bute
M Super Middleweight   1257   27   21 George Groves
M Super Middleweight   1246    9   22 Anthony Dirrell
M Super Middleweight   1240    8   19 Rogelio Medina
M Super Middleweight   1240    7   25 Badou Jack
M Super Middleweight   1240    4   28 Callum Smith

M Super Flyweight      1281   43   16 Carlos Cuadras
M Super Flyweight      1276   44   16 Naoya Inoue
M Super Flyweight      1266   30   12 McJoe Arroyo
M Super Flyweight      1227   39   10 Oleydong Sithsamerchai
M Super Flyweight      1209   93   14 Omar Andres Narvaez
M Super Flyweight      1201   26   16 Zolani Tete
M Super Flyweight      1200   22   19 Kohei Kono
M Super Flyweight      1197    7    7 Norberto Jimenez
M Super Flyweight      1194   59    9 Sonny Boy Jaro
M Super Flyweight      1194    5    6 Jonathan Arias

M Super Featherweight  1307   15   10 Jason Sosa
M Super Featherweight  1300  141   21 Takashi Uchiyama
M Super Featherweight  1268   97   28 Nicholas Walters
M Super Featherweight  1264   17   16 Oscar Valdez
M Super Featherweight  1264   12   22 Francisco Vargas
M Super Featherweight  1263    6   13 Juli Giner
M Super Featherweight  1241    9   13 Jezreel Corrales
M Super Featherweight  1239    7   19 Javier Fortuna
M Super Featherweight  1229  192   18 Orlando Salido
M Super Featherweight  1228    5   18 Jomthong Chuwatana

M Super Bantamweight   1271   12   13 Albert Pagara
M Super Bantamweight   1255   36   10 Alejandro Hernandez
M Super Bantamweight   1252   14   16 Julio Ceja
M Super Bantamweight   1241   18   22 Guillermo Rigondeaux
M Super Bantamweight   1241   14   17 Carl Frampton
M Super Bantamweight   1240   15   17 Scott Quigg
M Super Bantamweight   1232   11   16 Shingo Wake
M Super Bantamweight   1227  217   22 Nonito Donaire
M Super Bantamweight   1226   26   10 Tshifhiwa Munyai
M Super Bantamweight   1198    7   16 Ryo Matsumoto

M Minimumweight        1248   63    7 Carlos Buitrago
M Minimumweight        1235   11    9 Kosei Tanaka
M Minimumweight        1211   18   10 Wanheng Menayothin
M Minimumweight        1182    6    9 Knockout CP Freshmart
M Minimumweight        1178    3    4 Siphamanda Baleni
M Minimumweight        1175   30   12 Hekkie Budler
M Minimumweight        1174    5    8 Simphiwe Khonco
M Minimumweight        1170   15    7 Jesus Silvestre
M Minimumweight        1160    2    7 Panya Pradabsri
M Minimumweight        1153    6    8 Chao Zhong Xiong

M Middleweight         1356  122   33 Gennady Golovkin
M Middleweight         1337   34   40 Daniel Jacobs
M Middleweight         1327  141   40 Saul Alvarez
M Middleweight         1294   27   30 David Lemieux
M Middleweight         1287   88   29 Daniel Geale
M Middleweight         1284   13   30 Willie Monroe Jr
M Middleweight         1278   63   28 Joshua Clottey
M Middleweight         1276    8   17 Dmitry Chudinov
M Middleweight         1258   11   25 Maciej Sulecki
M Middleweight         1256    7   16 Ievgen Khytrov

M Lightweight          1353   73   20 Rances Barthelemy
M Lightweight          1324   57   19 Jorge Linares
M Lightweight          1312   32   19 Dejan Zlaticanin
M Lightweight          1298   38   16 Algenis Mendez
M Lightweight          1279   38    6 Ivan Cano
M Lightweight          1265   28   19 Malcolm Klassen
M Lightweight          1262   50   19 Denis Shafikov
M Lightweight          1259   10   17 Terry Flanagan
M Lightweight          1250   12   13 Xolisani Ndongeni
M Lightweight          1247   25   22 Petr Petrov

M Light Welterweight   1359   89   25 Terence Crawford
M Light Welterweight   1334   22   18 Ruslan Provodnikov
M Light Welterweight   1307   14   28 Viktor Postol
M Light Welterweight   1264  110   24 Adrien Broner
M Light Welterweight   1240    6   20 Eduard Troyanovsky
M Light Welterweight   1230    8   12 Mike Dallas Jr
M Light Welterweight   1221    3   22 Adrian Granados
M Light Welterweight   1213    3   16 Walter Castillo
M Light Welterweight   1212    4   13 Min Wook Kim
M Light Welterweight   1210    6   18 Thomas Dulorme

M Light Middleweight   1428  169   36 Erislandy Lara
M Light Middleweight   1351  182   39 Miguel Cotto
M Light Middleweight   1300   65   31 Austin Trout
M Light Middleweight   1299   20   28 Ishe Smith
M Light Middleweight   1290   46   31 James Kirkland
M Light Middleweight   1282   18   28 Jermell Charlo
M Light Middleweight   1273    8   22 Willie Nelson
M Light Middleweight   1265   13   31 Demetrius Andrade
M Light Middleweight   1262  645   34 Shane Mosley
M Light Middleweight   1247    5   34 Jermall Charlo

M Light Heavyweight    1376   92   41 Sergey Kovalev
M Light Heavyweight    1342  139   40 Adonis Stevenson
M Light Heavyweight    1319   74   43 Andre Ward
M Light Heavyweight    1295   32   26 Nathan Cleverly
M Light Heavyweight    1271   20   33 Edwin Rodriguez
M Light Heavyweight    1267   41   24 Juergen Braehmer
M Light Heavyweight    1264   14   37 Artur Beterbiev
M Light Heavyweight    1259   27   25 Sullivan Barrera
M Light Heavyweight    1259   26   28 Eleider Alvarez
M Light Heavyweight    1253   26   26 Isaac Chilemba

M Light Flyweight      1262   49   12 Donnie Nietes
M Light Flyweight      1247   21    8 Randy Petalcorin
M Light Flyweight      1228   30   13 Akira Yaegashi
M Light Flyweight      1198    8    7 Koji Itagaki
M Light Flyweight      1190   12    7 Jonathan Taconing
M Light Flyweight      1189   34   12 Pedro Guevara
M Light Flyweight      1188    9   10 Rey Loreto
M Light Flyweight      1185    3    9 Mzuvukile Magwaca
M Light Flyweight      1166    5    6 Angel Acosta
M Light Flyweight      1161   13    9 Ryoichi Taguchi

M Heavyweight          1349  185   40 Alexander Povetkin
M Heavyweight          1333  447   39 Wladimir Klitschko
M Heavyweight          1320   35   37 Deontay Wilder
M Heavyweight          1293   30   34 Luis Ortiz
M Heavyweight          1293   16   34 Erkan Teper
M Heavyweight          1292   77   36 Kubrat Pulev
M Heavyweight          1271   43   43 Tyson Fury
M Heavyweight          1257   99   35 Guillermo Jones
M Heavyweight          1245  121   31 Shannon Briggs
M Heavyweight          1244   23   33 Carlos Takam

M Flyweight            1269  108   14 Juan Francisco Estrada
M Flyweight            1248   69   22 Roman Gonzalez
M Flyweight            1214   23   13 Kazuto Ioka
M Flyweight            1210    3    2 Carlos Ariel Farias
M Flyweight            1207   67   12 Edgar Sosa
M Flyweight            1206  101   11 Brian Viloria
M Flyweight            1205    9    7 Vincent Legrand
M Flyweight            1193   10   14 Amnat Ruenroeng
M Flyweight            1189   13    6 Martin Tecuapetla
M Flyweight            1185   18   10 Juan Hernandez

M Featherweight        1298   78   19 Robinson Castellanos
M Featherweight        1286  132   19 Abner Mares
M Featherweight        1270   18   11 Lusanda Komanisi
M Featherweight        1258   13   13 Vasyl Lomachenko
M Featherweight        1251   21   14 Thabo Sonjica
M Featherweight        1245   49   24 Simpiwe Vetyeka
M Featherweight        1240   21   19 Jesus Marcelo Andres Cuellar
M Featherweight        1236  106   21 Leo Santa Cruz
M Featherweight        1231    8   13 Eric Hunter
M Featherweight        1226   11   17 Lee Selby

M Cruiserweight        1310   25   33 Denis Lebedev
M Cruiserweight        1297   21   28 Ola Afolabi
M Cruiserweight        1289    6   37 Ilunga Makabu
M Cruiserweight        1281    4   28 Krzysztof Glowacki
M Cruiserweight        1280   12   37 Grigory Drozd
M Cruiserweight        1279    7   18 Mateusz Masternak
M Cruiserweight        1276    3   28 Olanrewaju Durodola
M Cruiserweight        1272    3   25 Mairis Briedis
M Cruiserweight        1268    8   19 Francisco Palacios
M Cruiserweight        1262    6   22 Dmytro Kucher

M Bantamweight         1286  215   12 Anselmo Moreno
M Bantamweight         1235   23   14 Lee Haskins
M Bantamweight         1224   35   15 Jamie McDonnell
M Bantamweight         1222   20    9 Yohei Tobe
M Bantamweight         1218   12    9 Kentaro Masuda
M Bantamweight         1211   14   10 Marlon Tapales
M Bantamweight         1210   34   13 Rey Megrino
M Bantamweight         1206   52   19 Juan Carlos Payano
M Bantamweight         1206    9    7 Alexis Santiago
M Bantamweight         1203    5    8 Dixon Flores

[JCS]

What K-Factor are you using?

[computerrank]

What K-Factor are you using?

80

[TheWigwam]

On Chess.com I have a rating of 1683 and I haven't beaten anyone above 1222, my record is/was something like 123-0-1. The ELO/Glicko system wouldn't suit boxing because you could run up a high score by beating low opposition as I did

[computerrank]

On Chess.com I have a rating of 1683 and I haven't beaten anyone above 1222, my record is/was something like 123-0-1. The ELO/Glicko system wouldn't suit boxing because you could run up a high score by beating low opposition as I did

[ikorolev]

On Chess.com I have a rating of 1683 and I haven't beaten anyone above 1222, my record is/was something like 123-0-1. The ELO/Glicko system wouldn't suit boxing because you could run up a high score by beating low opposition as I did

My chess.com rating is fluctuating between 1850 and 1900+, and when I beat somebody with low rating, I get NO points.