S.O.G

fightfan95 · Post by **fightfan95** » 14 Mar 2016, 09:29

Is Andre Ward overrated? I think is one of the most interesting topics in boxing at the moment, is it controversial to say he is overrated? When he was active in the Super Middleweight division it seemed no-one could get close to him. I will always remember the Froch bout the one-sided beating of Abraham. While picking up impressive victories against Kessler, Bika and Dawson. Then came the 2 year lay off, when he returned he faced Paul Smith - not a bad opponent to face after nearly 2 years out. Then moving up to Light Heavyweight and facing Barrera - I can't see him losing this either.

So, at 32 and still undefeated you would have thought even discussing this would be unthinkable. I think when he was active in the Super Middleweight division he thought he was untouchable - many shared this opinion, even people making him Pound 4 Pound #1 ahead of Mayweather, Jr. This is where I raise the question - In my opinion I don't believe he was ever #1 Pound 4 Pound and nowhere near it. A rematch with Froch after Groves 2 would've been very interesting.

Personally I believe Sergey Kovalev beats Ward at Light Heavyweight any day of the week, and maybe a younger Adonis Stevenson could have caused him problems. So he defiantly isn't untouchable at Light Heavyweight and even dropping back down to Super Middleweight he wouldn't be untouchable either. So still mentioning him in Pound 4 Pound top 5 to this day, is that overrating Ward?

ikorolev · Post by **ikorolev** » 14 Mar 2016, 10:06

Yes, he was. His #2 p4p position was based on 3 wins against Abraham, Kessler and Froch who were solid but pretty limited fighters. Due to lack of power and softer chin, Ward has to use a lot of dirty tactics. He should have been disqualified against Kessler due to intentional head butts and excessive clinching. He has never faced a truly skillful boxer.

Tanzio · Post by **Tanzio** » 14 Mar 2016, 10:28

ikorolev wrote:Yes, he was. His #2 p4p position was based on 3 wins against Abraham, Kessler and Froch who were solid but pretty limited fighters. Due to lack of power and softer chin, Ward has to use a lot of dirty tactics. He should have been disqualified against Kessler due to intentional head butts and excessive clinching. He has never faced a truly skillful boxer.

. . . at that boxer's optimum weight.

Batley18 · Post by **Batley18** » 14 Mar 2016, 12:02

He definitely isn't overrated, but his career has stalled to the point where he is barely relevant anymore. The guy needs to be very active over the next 12-18 months.

SaadOffTheDeck · Post by **SaadOffTheDeck** » 14 Mar 2016, 12:33

Not overrated, he's made himself largely irrelevant. He must be the absolute worst fighter to negotiate with in history. Think about it, the Super 6 was a done deal from the outset, set fees and brackets. Dawson is the only meaningful fight he's had outside of it. Though I like the Barrera fight.

PredatorHayds · Post by **PredatorHayds** » 14 Mar 2016, 12:55

Not overrated at all. His main problem is inactivity otherwise his career has been very good.
If he beats Kovalev his stock rises again. If anything his super six wins are underrated ad in hindsight the quality in the tournament was very high.

SFW · Post by **SFW** » 14 Mar 2016, 13:34

I notice Abraham, Kessler, and Froch are better than anyone Golovkin has professionally fought (his fault or not) and about all of Kovalev's opponents as well. And Ward has less fights than both. with years worth of inactivity. Do not be surprised when Andre Ward comes back and reminds the Nancy Drews and Angela Lansburys out there why he was rated so highly.

crusader · Post by **crusader** » 14 Mar 2016, 13:38

SFW wrote:I notice Abraham, Kessler, and Froch are better than anyone Golovkin has professionally fought (his fault or not) and about all of Kovalev's opponents as well. And Ward has less fights than both. with years worth of inactivity. Do not be surprised when Andre Ward comes back and reminds the Nancy Drews and Angela Lansburys out there why he was rated so highly.

Does he get a bonus for that?

He's been a pro 5 years longer than Kovalev and 2 years longer than GGG; when someone fights as much as Ward does they better make it count.

Oiky · Post by **Oiky** » 14 Mar 2016, 14:32

ward deserves alot of credit and is a great boxer but i do think he is a bit overrated yes

Tarkus · Post by **Tarkus** » 14 Mar 2016, 15:14

We had exactly this discussion a month ago: http://boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f ... +overrated

Freedom2013 · Post by **Freedom2013** » 14 Mar 2016, 15:18

"Everyone has a plan until they get clinched, clamped, held and headbutted" - Andre Ward

Tanzio · Post by **Tanzio** » 14 Mar 2016, 16:49

Freedom2013 wrote:"Everyone has a plan until they get clinched, clamped, held and headbutted" - Andre Ward

Yawn

Tanzio · Post by **Tanzio** » 14 Mar 2016, 17:16

SOGgy is both overrated and underrated. I honestly don't think that he should be rated at all at the moment so I guess that I fall on the side of overrated.

Barrera should be a decent barometer on where he should be considered. If he gets by that, even if he looks pedestrian in doing so, and the Krusher fight happens in a timely manner, we will know whether or not he is on the elite level, at least.

SOGgy is probably the most annoying boxer on Earth, but if he can beat Barrera and Krusher this year he will be in the top 2 or three on every objective list.

NateJR · Post by **NateJR** » 14 Mar 2016, 23:28

This is a guy who hasn't lost a fight in like 20 years, was gold medalist in the Olympics and beat the best guys in his previous devision. If anything, around these part with the retards that post on here, he's criminally underrated. If you think Wards overrated and don't see this guy's talent you're a fornicating idiot. Wards level of competition and what he proved he's capable of against bonafied world class fighters seems to be overlooked.. People act like he's not the same the fighter, but I would bet good money Ward would beat GGG, Kovalev and Stevenson with Kova being the only really test. Ward is a bad dude and he well deserved his #2 spot on the P4P rating when he dominated S6 and is still arguably the best guy out there since Floyd retired.

ikorolev · Post by **ikorolev** » 14 Mar 2016, 23:36

NateJR wrote:This is a guy who hasn't lost a fight in like 20 years, was gold medalist in the Olympics ...

Who did he fight in those 20 years beside the 3 limited Euros I mentioned and dehydrated Dawson ? ... and he did lose Olympic semi-final, but was gifted the win.

Wales · Post by **Wales** » 15 Mar 2016, 00:42

Underrated cos his style isnt exciting and fact he's only fought 5 times in last 6 years doesnt help.

His resume is far better than GGG. Didnt see Wards gift in the semi final of the olympics, but I did see GGG fail to capture gold the same year.

If Ward beats Kovalev and/or Stevenson and, say, Fonfara. Which is feasible. He'll have one hell of a resume, just shame he's been so inactive.

Wales · Post by **Wales** » 15 Mar 2016, 00:48

ikorolev wrote:
NateJR wrote:This is a guy who hasn't lost a fight in like 20 years, was gold medalist in the Olympics ...
Who did he fight in those 20 years beside the 3 limited Euros I mentioned and dehydrated Dawson ? ... and he did lose Olympic semi-final, but was gifted the win.

Harsh calling Froch "limited" - wins over Taylor, Pascal, Kessler, Direll, Abraham. Then schooled, really, by Ward.

Tanzio · Post by **Tanzio** » 15 Mar 2016, 03:03

NateJR wrote:This is a guy who hasn't lost a fight in like 20 years, was gold medalist in the Olympics and beat the best guys in his previous devision. If anything, around these part with the retards that post on here, he's criminally underrated. If you think Wards overrated and don't see this guy's talent you're a effing idiot. Wards level of competition and what he proved he's capable of against bonafied world class fighters seems to be overlooked.. People act like he's not the same the fighter, but I would bet good money Ward would beat GGG, Kovalev and Stevenson with Kova being the only really test. Ward is a bad dude and he well deserved his #2 spot on the P4P rating when he dominated S6 and is still arguably the best guy out there since Floyd retired.

That's a brilliant way to join a debate, by labeling everyone who disagrees with you "retards" and "effing idiots." I'm often accused of making personal attacks by individuals I am arguing with on here. In close to 100% of the cases I am responding in kind to those who have attacked me and / or others personally for expressing our opinions.

IMO, SOGgy should not be rated at all based on his activity over the last few years. He has simply done almost nothing of note for too long. That is likely to change, shortly. But what if SOGgy stubs a toe or sprains a finger and the Barrera fight is called off?

I supported SOGgy wholeheartedly during the S6, but since then he has done little. Yes, I do think that his victory over Dawson was relatively impressive, although Chad was a fool to drain to that weight. That is all a long time ago.

I would love to be able to support SOGgy again. However, you don't get a lifetime pass for 3 or 4 significant victories nearly a half decade ago.

fightfan95 · Post by **fightfan95** » 15 Mar 2016, 04:02

Tanzio wrote:
NateJR wrote:This is a guy who hasn't lost a fight in like 20 years, was gold medalist in the Olympics and beat the best guys in his previous devision. If anything, around these part with the retards that post on here, he's criminally underrated. If you think Wards overrated and don't see this guy's talent you're a effing idiot. Wards level of competition and what he proved he's capable of against bonafied world class fighters seems to be overlooked.. People act like he's not the same the fighter, but I would bet good money Ward would beat GGG, Kovalev and Stevenson with Kova being the only really test. Ward is a bad dude and he well deserved his #2 spot on the P4P rating when he dominated S6 and is still arguably the best guy out there since Floyd retired.
That's a brilliant way to join a debate, by labeling everyone who disagrees with you "retards" and "effing idiots." I'm often accused of making personal attacks by individuals I am arguing with on here. In close to 100% of the cases I am responding in kind to those who have attacked me and / or others personally for expressing our opinions.

IMO, SOGgy should not be rated at all based on his activity over the last few years. He has simply done almost nothing of note for too long. That is likely to change, shortly. But what if SOGgy stubs a toe or sprains a finger and the Barrera fight is called off?

I supported SOGgy wholeheartedly during the S6, but since then he has done little. Yes, I do think that his victory over Dawson was relatively impressive, although Chad was a fool to drain to that weight. That is all a long time ago.

I would love to be able to support SOGgy again. However, you don't get a lifetime pass for 3 or 4 significant victories nearly a half decade ago.

Excellently put

Pureist · Post by **Pureist** » 15 Mar 2016, 07:19

He is a dirty fighter who only fights in his home town where he is protected and allowed to get away with his dirty tactics, he is as boring as bat shite and look forward to him being KOd

Oiky · Post by **Oiky** » 15 Mar 2016, 08:17

Pureist wrote:He is a dirty fighter who only fights in his home town where he is protected and allowed to get away with his dirty tactics, he is as boring as bat shite and look forward to him being KOd

sergey kovalev will ko ward

tigermoth87 · Post by **tigermoth87** » 15 Mar 2016, 09:30

Kovalev is going to steamroll him.

I honestly think Ward's glass jaw is getting shattered within 5 rounds. The first meaningful punch Kov lands will demolish him.

He's also the most boring boxer on the planet; although Rigo gives him strong competition.

SaadOffTheDeck · Post by **SaadOffTheDeck** » 15 Mar 2016, 11:43

If Kovalev demolishes Ward he's way better than I think he is and I was called an idiot around here for callling him the best Light Heavy in the world when most didn't know who he was.

Freedom2013 · Post by **Freedom2013** » 15 Mar 2016, 11:59

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:If Kovalev demolishes Ward he's way better than I think he is and I was called an idiot around here for callling him the best Light Heavy in the world when most didn't know who he was.

I've been following Kovalev for awhile.

I remember winning a bet on him over Campillo, but months before that I watched Kovalev vs. Simakov live on a stream.

SaadOffTheDeck · Post by **SaadOffTheDeck** » 15 Mar 2016, 12:08

I won a ton on that fight.

S.O.G

S.O.G overrated?

S.O.G

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