The $64,000 Question and Dr. Joyce Brothers

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APerno
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The $64,000 Question and Dr. Joyce Brothers

Post by APerno » 11 Aug 2016, 23:47

Before I offer what I about to offer (the final question) I want to address the notion that Dr. Brothers cheated her way to the ‘title.’ – She hadn’t; three years after her success, when the quiz show scandal broke big in the news, (circa ’58-’59), one of the accused producers, who had nothing to lose at that point, exonerated Dr. Brothers during testimony, stating that she was not assisted in any manner during her run for the 64K, (admitting others were)*

In fact, the producer added that any ‘cheating’ that may occurred involving Brothers, was in fact reversed. It seems Dr. Brothers was a ratings dud and mid-competition (the competition being spread over several weeks,) the producers decided that she needed to go, so they deliberately put together, in hope of tripping her up, a multi-part question dealing with only referees; but Brother’s was ready for them and answered all the questions easily.

Brother’s coach for the competition was Col. Edward Egan a former New York State boxing commissioner, but maybe more importantly was Dr. Brother’s relationship with Nat Fleischer. According to Fleischer, Brothers spent several weeks hunkered down in ‘The Ring Magazine’s’ New York offices studying over all the available resources, focusing on the Ring Record Book(s) as her main source.

In an interview, after the competition ended, Nat Fleischer hinted that Brother’s had some sort of eidetic memory, (not his word) stating that she could read a page of statistics and then repeat the page back almost verbatim; this she did with thousands of pages of information.

Here is the $64,000 (multi-part) Question Dr. Joyce Brother’s answered correctly.

1. What were the gloves of Roman gladiators in the Colosseum called?
2. Who was the first scientific boxer, heavyweight champion of England in 1791?
3. What was the name of the heavyweight champion of England who taught a famous poet the art of boxing?
4. Who wrote the famous essay ‘The Fight’ after having seen Bill Neat defeat Tom Hickman for the English heavyweight title in 1821, and what was Hickman’s nickname?
5. What was the full name of the Marquis of Queensberry, who set up the Queensberry rules?
6. In 1933, Primo Carnera defended the world heavyweight title abroad. Who was his opponent, and where did they meet?
7. How many times did Jack Dempsey floor Luis Firpo in their famous fight in New York? How long did the fight last, within 30 seconds?


I went 1 and 6, knowing only the Dempsey-Firpo question; being a Dempsey geek I’m glad they ended the competition with a Dempsey-Firpo question, it is fitting.

Without googling, can anyone answer these questions?

* The $64,000 Question seems to have been a clean show, it was only after the show reappeared under a different name, “The $64,000, Challenge” that the show got dirty; Patty Duke, a child actress who had competed on “The $64,000 Challenge” testified before Congress that she had been coached; and of course the show “21” was a complete fraud.

BroughtonRulesRefuge
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Re: The $64,000 Question and Dr. Joyce Brothers

Post by BroughtonRulesRefuge » 12 Aug 2016, 06:28

APerno wrote:
1. What were the gloves of Roman gladiators in the Colosseum called?
2. Who was the first scientific boxer, heavyweight champion of England in 1791?
3. What was the name of the heavyweight champion of England who taught a famous poet the art of boxing?
4. Who wrote the famous essay ‘The Fight’ after having seen Bill Neat defeat Tom Hickman for the English heavyweight title in 1821, and what was Hickman’s nickname?
5. What was the full name of the Marquis of Queensberry, who set up the Queensberry rules?
6. In 1933, Primo Carnera defended the world heavyweight title abroad. Who was his opponent, and where did they meet?
7. How many times did Jack Dempsey floor Luis Firpo in their famous fight in New York? How long did the fight last, within 30 seconds?


I went 1 and 6, knowing only the Dempsey-Firpo question; being a Dempsey geek I’m glad they ended the competition with a Dempsey-Firpo question, it is fitting.

Without googling, can anyone answer these questions?
- Arcane knowledge without context sort of a fool's savant world, but I'll rattle round the dim cobwebs of memory for maybe a few hits in ye olde ballparke.

1 Caestus/sp
2 James Figg
3 Broughton my namesake
4 Lourde Byron / thick man
5 Queen Berry
6 7x /4:30

Bonus ?
Who was the first American fighter of note to cross the pond to whoop up on local English oafs?

APerno
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Posts: 1644
Joined: 20 Jul 2016, 03:38

Re: The $64,000 Question and Dr. Joyce Brothers

Post by APerno » 12 Aug 2016, 08:50

BroughtonRulesRefuge wrote:
APerno wrote:
1. What were the gloves of Roman gladiators in the Colosseum called?
2. Who was the first scientific boxer, heavyweight champion of England in 1791?
3. What was the name of the heavyweight champion of England who taught a famous poet the art of boxing?
4. Who wrote the famous essay ‘The Fight’ after having seen Bill Neat defeat Tom Hickman for the English heavyweight title in 1821, and what was Hickman’s nickname?
5. What was the full name of the Marquis of Queensberry, who set up the Queensberry rules?
6. In 1933, Primo Carnera defended the world heavyweight title abroad. Who was his opponent, and where did they meet?
7. How many times did Jack Dempsey floor Luis Firpo in their famous fight in New York? How long did the fight last, within 30 seconds?


I went 1 and 6, knowing only the Dempsey-Firpo question; being a Dempsey geek I’m glad they ended the competition with a Dempsey-Firpo question, it is fitting.

Without googling, can anyone answer these questions?
- Arcane knowledge without context sort of a fool's savant world, but I'll rattle round the dim cobwebs of memory for maybe a few hits in ye olde ballparke.

1 Caestus/sp CORRECT [CESTUS]
2 James Figg INCORRECT
3 Broughton my namesake INCORRECT
4 Lourde Byron / thick man INCORRECT
5 Queen Berry INCORRECT
6 INCORRECT
7 7x /4:30 INCORRECT

Bonus ?
Who was the first American fighter of note to cross the pond to whoop up on local English oafs?

APerno
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Posts: 1644
Joined: 20 Jul 2016, 03:38

Re: The $64,000 Question and Dr. Joyce Brothers

Post by APerno » 12 Aug 2016, 09:08

APerno wrote:
BroughtonRulesRefuge wrote:
APerno wrote:
1. What were the gloves of Roman gladiators in the Colosseum called?
2. Who was the first scientific boxer, heavyweight champion of England in 1791?
3. What was the name of the heavyweight champion of England who taught a famous poet the art of boxing?
4. Who wrote the famous essay ‘The Fight’ after having seen Bill Neat defeat Tom Hickman for the English heavyweight title in 1821, and what was Hickman’s nickname?
5. What was the full name of the Marquis of Queensberry, who set up the Queensberry rules?
6. In 1933, Primo Carnera defended the world heavyweight title abroad. Who was his opponent, and where did they meet?
7. How many times did Jack Dempsey floor Luis Firpo in their famous fight in New York? How long did the fight last, within 30 seconds?


I went 1 and 6, knowing only the Dempsey-Firpo question; being a Dempsey geek I’m glad they ended the competition with a Dempsey-Firpo question, it is fitting.

Without googling, can anyone answer these questions?
- Arcane knowledge without context sort of a fool's savant world, but I'll rattle round the dim cobwebs of memory for maybe a few hits in ye olde ballparke.

1 Caestus/sp CORRECT [CESTUS]
2 James Figg INCORRECT
3 Broughton my namesake INCORRECT
4 Lourde Byron / thick man INCORRECT
5 Queen Berry INCORRECT
6 INCORRECT
7 7x /4:30 INCORRECT

Bonus ?
Who was the first American fighter of note to cross the pond to whoop up on local English oafs?

Sorry - the Lord Byron is correct - nick name is incorrect.

Kalan
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Re: The $64,000 Question and Dr. Joyce Brothers

Post by Kalan » 12 Aug 2016, 10:50

The only ones that I knew were the Cestus... Carnera fought Uzcudun in Italy... And Dempsey Floored Firpo 9 times and finished him 50 seconds into the 2nd rnd. I don't think anybody would know all those -- and I always assumed the $64,000 question gave their favorite contestants the answers.

My parents argued about this; my dad always insisting the contestants were usually given the answers ahead of time when they got them right. Hal March was an actor, and it was all staged for drama and attracting viewers. You either know an answer or you don't. You don't put your hand to your mouth or forehead closing your eyes to concentrate ... and suddenly come up with the answer, just beating the buzzer.

BroughtonRulesRefuge
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Re: The $64,000 Question and Dr. Joyce Brothers

Post by BroughtonRulesRefuge » 12 Aug 2016, 11:33

--- Strongly disagree with your 1st question though I focused more on the first ever scientific English champ part than the 1791 date.

That is unequivocally James Figg who ran the first recorded academy to teach boxing, wrestling, cudgel, quarter staffs, and sword fighting, often reported undefeated in all disciplines save one boxing loss twice avenged. Mentored Jack Broughton who furthered the scientific aspect of boxing and updated the informal outlaw nature of the sport with codified Broughton's rules of prizefighting that were a first ever. In this case Ms. Doc Bro got the question wrong by a mile although we have to note the question is poorly worded because of the wrong answer as we might expect from a tv show.

Due to the unfriendly nature of my iphone, I failed to note the Primo question, though I was gonna guess Young Stribling though they never fought for a title, it was overseas, about as close as whatever the 1791 answer was that would be wrong by the date. Over and out...
:wave:

APerno
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Re: The $64,000 Question and Dr. Joyce Brothers

Post by APerno » 12 Aug 2016, 14:42

BroughtonRulesRefuge wrote:--- Strongly disagree with your 1st question though I focused more on the first ever scientific English champ part than the 1791 date.

That is unequivocally James Figg who ran the first recorded academy to teach boxing, wrestling, cudgel, quarter staffs, and sword fighting, often reported undefeated in all disciplines save one boxing loss twice avenged. Mentored Jack Broughton who furthered the scientific aspect of boxing and updated the informal outlaw nature of the sport with codified Broughton's rules of prizefighting that were a first ever. In this case Ms. Doc Bro got the question wrong by a mile although we have to note the question is poorly worded because of the wrong answer as we might expect from a tv show.

Due to the unfriendly nature of my iphone, I failed to note the Primo question, though I was gonna guess Young Stribling though they never fought for a title, it was overseas, about as close as whatever the 1791 answer was that would be wrong by the date. Over and out...
:wave:

What she answered (for whatever that is worth) is Daniel Mendoza

Kalan
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Re: The $64,000 Question and Dr. Joyce Brothers

Post by Kalan » 12 Aug 2016, 18:18

The time line nearly fits for Mendoza, but not quite... He became English Champion in 1792 and was a very scientific boxer and coach of the art.

jaclem3
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Re: The $64,000 Question and Dr. Joyce Brothers

Post by jaclem3 » 14 Aug 2016, 19:45

..re:primo...............i think it was uzcudon (sp) in spain.....

APerno
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Re: The $64,000 Question and Dr. Joyce Brothers

Post by APerno » 15 Aug 2016, 03:19

jaclem3 wrote:..re:primo...............i think it was uzcudon (sp) in spain.....
Close, it was Uzcudon in Rome

Caractacus
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Re: The $64,000 Question and Dr. Joyce Brothers

Post by Caractacus » 15 Aug 2016, 15:32

It should be noted that the producers suggested topics for the contesents to play
in advance of the show.They gave boxing to Dr. joyce Brothers to read up on before hand and she read voluminously on the subject.
Because no way could anyone answer those questions from the top of their head.

Kalan
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Re: The $64,000 Question and Dr. Joyce Brothers

Post by Kalan » 16 Aug 2016, 23:22

If they gave her the answers... which I believe they did... Then she wouldn't have to study so voluminously... Who gives a rat's ass if Tom Cribb, James Figg, Jem Mace, Frank Salvin, Daniel Mendoza, and whatever character fought back then fought who or said what??? Whenever you read a story about a fight back in England you get the sense the author is making a great deal of it up.. No wonder they had poor ratings for her appearances.. Nat Fleischer shared the booth with her and he didn't help her a bit. Even he wasn't interested in that dismal trivia.

They gave Charles Van Doren and all the other big winners the answers so why wouldn't they give Brothers the answers??? Investigative reporters started blowing the lid off the show and the jig was up.. Just about any intelligent person watching the show had to be suspicious as Hell.. The dramatic way Hal March would tell the contestants time was running out and they'd come up with the answer in the nick of time.. My dad had the scam nailed from the beginning.

The 10 other big 64,000 dollar winners all pled guilty to perjury. Whenever investigators questioned Brothers she broke into tears and wouldn't stop crying. She kept denying and wouldn't answer questions and did nothing but carry on.. She was going down fighting.. For me, she was a very clever crook who knew how to use emotion to bend people.. She was after all a psychologist.. In the end she got off and maybe she was innocent.. But watching the show I had the distinct impression she was faking it -- with her dramatic pauses and putting her hands to her mouth and thinking hard, and closing her eyes, like the other big winning contestants. They all looked so similar as the seconds ticked off the clock -- like they were all coached by the same dramatic actor.

Remember that show "To tell the truth?" ... They would bring in 2 fakers and the real person who the panel was trying to uncover... the fakers would lie like Hell and try to act authentic... The real person had to tell the truth, but would try to make you believe he was faking it all the way. It was a fun show.


APerno
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Re: The $64,000 Question and Dr. Joyce Brothers

Post by APerno » 17 Aug 2016, 23:08

Kalan wrote:If they gave her the answers... which I believe they did... Then she wouldn't have to study so voluminously... Who gives a rat's ass if Tom Cribb, James Figg, Jem Mace, Frank Salvin, Daniel Mendoza, and whatever character fought back then fought who or said what??? Whenever you read a story about a fight back in England you get the sense the author is making a great deal of it up.. No wonder they had poor ratings for her appearances.. Nat Fleischer shared the booth with her and he didn't help her a bit. Even he wasn't interested in that dismal trivia.

They gave Charles Van Doren and all the other big winners the answers so why wouldn't they give Brothers the answers??? Investigative reporters started blowing the lid off the show and the jig was up.. Just about any intelligent person watching the show had to be suspicious as Hell.. The dramatic way Hal March would tell the contestants time was running out and they'd come up with the answer in the nick of time.. My dad had the scam nailed from the beginning.

The 10 other big 64,000 dollar winners all pled guilty to perjury. Whenever investigators questioned Brothers she broke into tears and wouldn't stop crying. She kept denying and wouldn't answer questions and did nothing but carry on.. She was going down fighting.. For me, she was a very clever crook who knew how to use emotion to bend people.. She was after all a psychologist.. In the end she got off and maybe she was innocent.. But watching the show I had the distinct impression she was faking it -- with her dramatic pauses and putting her hands to her mouth and thinking hard, and closing her eyes, like the other big winning contestants. They all looked so similar as the seconds ticked off the clock -- like they were all coached by the same dramatic actor.

Remember that show "To tell the truth?" ... They would bring in 2 fakers and the real person who the panel was trying to uncover... the fakers would lie like Hell and try to act authentic... The real person had to tell the truth, but would try to make you believe he was faking it all the way. It was a fun show.
Three quick things

Did you say you got to watch the show? I would really enjoy watching it, do you have a link? -

I thought it was Col. Edward Egan (former New York State boxing commissioner) that was in the booth with her, not Nat Fleischer? I will have to go back and look at this, I may be incorrect. - And yes, the source I read also stated that he (whichever) was of no help -

Van Doren was on the show “21,” which was a different show, with a different set of producers, than the “$64,000 Question.” - I realize that does not make $64,000 clean, but “21’s” bad behavior shouldn’t automatically make $64,000 dirty either.

Kalan
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Re: The $64,000 Question and Dr. Joyce Brothers

Post by Kalan » 18 Aug 2016, 02:20

Just about everybody who was on 64,000 who won big was a cheat. They did a big investigation and questioned the big winners. The other 10 big winners broke down and admitted they were given the answers. Brothers never admitted it. Yes, I watched the show all the time as a kid. It was a favorite of my parents. I believe Van Doren was on both 21 and 64. It was so many years ago and I was so young that I may be mistaken.

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