BoxRec

lets be clear about it.

ortiz wasnt impressiv in his last 2 fights. there is a reason behind it. he changed promoter, moved from sunny florida to rainy cold england. he gets shi%&y money to fight c-f level opponents. he simply had a lot of stuff going on, couldnt train properly and his opponents werent a big goal to achieve, than there is age.

give him 4 month of proper training, give him a big money fight against a big name and we'll see the ortiz version destroyed jennings, thompson. this version parker, josh and wilder would have a problem against. cause wilder is behind training, parker totaly failed to impress and josh never faced somebody on the level of ortiz.

Jip wrote:lets be clear about it.

ortiz wasnt impressiv in his last 2 fights. there is a reason behind it. he changed promoter, moved from sunny florida to rainy cold england. he gets shi%&y money to fight c-f level opponents. he simply had a lot of stuff going on, couldnt train properly and his opponents werent a big goal to achieve, than there is age.

give him 4 month of proper training, give him a big money fight against a big name and we'll see the ortiz version destroyed jennings, thompson. this version parker, josh and wilder would have a problem against. cause wilder is behind training, parker totaly failed to impress and josh never faced somebody on the level of ortiz.

Jip, I hope you are right.

Good post. I agree with this!

Jip wrote:lets be clear about it.

give him 4 month of proper training, give him a big money fight against a big name and we'll see the ortiz version destroyed jennings, thompson. this version parker, josh and wilder would have a problem against. cause wilder is behind training, parker totaly failed to impress and josh never faced somebody on the level of ortiz.

Why would anyone grant Ortiz an opportunity to engage in a big money fight against a big name on the back of his disappointing performances against Scott and Allen?

Ortiz has to realise that he has to look impressive against the "little" names in order to generate enough economic demand to see him share the ring against the "big" names.

so the boxrec no1 heavy weight in the world
is not really up to a really big fight. something
is profoundly wrong about this division.

Enlightened-One wrote:

Jip wrote:lets be clear about it.

give him 4 month of proper training, give him a big money fight against a big name and we'll see the ortiz version destroyed jennings, thompson. this version parker, josh and wilder would have a problem against. cause wilder is behind training, parker totaly failed to impress and josh never faced somebody on the level of ortiz.

Why would anyone grant Ortiz an opportunity to engage in a big money fight against a big name on the back of his disappointing performances against Scott and Allen?

Ortiz has to realise that he has to look impressive against the "little" names in order to generate enough economic demand to see him share the ring against the "big" names.

If everything was based on your last performance, Wlad would never get a title shot like he is getting against Joshua.

Badhusker wrote:

Enlightened-One wrote:

Jip wrote:lets be clear about it.

give him 4 month of proper training, give him a big money fight against a big name and we'll see the ortiz version destroyed jennings, thompson. this version parker, josh and wilder would have a problem against. cause wilder is behind training, parker totaly failed to impress and josh never faced somebody on the level of ortiz.

Why would anyone grant Ortiz an opportunity to engage in a big money fight against a big name on the back of his disappointing performances against Scott and Allen?

Ortiz has to realise that he has to look impressive against the "little" names in order to generate enough economic demand to see him share the ring against the "big" names.

If everything was based on your last performance, Wlad would never get a title shot like he is getting against Joshua.

Agreed, but Ortiz has been on a poor run of form for multiple fights and has only just joined a UK promoter where the casual British fan base are unfamiliar with his talents. If they're responsible for funding any "big" fights involving Ortiz, they surely need to have to be motivated somehow to pay for it.

My argument is more about economics rather than who is or isn't deserving of big fights.

Enlightened-One wrote:

Badhusker wrote:

Enlightened-One wrote: Why would anyone grant Ortiz an opportunity to engage in a big money fight against a big name on the back of his disappointing performances against Scott and Allen?

Ortiz has to realise that he has to look impressive against the "little" names in order to generate enough economic demand to see him share the ring against the "big" names.

If everything was based on your last performance, Wlad would never get a title shot like he is getting against Joshua.

Agreed, but Ortiz has been on a poor run of form for multiple fights and has only just joined a UK promoter where the casual British fan base are unfamiliar with his talents. If they're responsible for funding any "big" fights involving Ortiz, they surely need to have to be motivated somehow to pay for it.

My argument is more about economics rather than who is or isn't deserving of big fights.

got your point. but everything is better also economics than molina, martin or breazale

Jip wrote:

Enlightened-One wrote:

Badhusker wrote: If everything was based on your last performance, Wlad would never get a title shot like he is getting against Joshua.

Agreed, but Ortiz has been on a poor run of form for multiple fights and has only just joined a UK promoter where the casual British fan base are unfamiliar with his talents. If they're responsible for funding any "big" fights involving Ortiz, they surely need to have to be motivated somehow to pay for it.

My argument is more about economics rather than who is or isn't deserving of big fights.

got your point. but everything is better also economics than molina, martin or breazale

Back to economics again, I’m afraid…

In the context of the names you’ve mentioned, British casual fight fans are actually paying to see Anthony Joshua fight, because the guys you’ve named are mainly unheralded fighters requiring small paydays that aren’t considered a legitimate threat to the UK fan favourite.

For example: if Anthony Joshua was to engage in a bout against Luis Ortiz, who is ranked above him by ESPN and The Ring, then he’s going to demand a career-best purse, because the likelihood of defeat is greater than he has ever faced.

However, if the recent memory of Luis Ortiz to British fight fans is one of tedium, then they aren’t going to that motivated to part with their hard-earned cash to pay the price of a PPV to see the Ciuban face AJ.

Charles Martin became a millionaire who never had to work again for his small payday to defend against Joshua!

Obviously Martin had something Joshua and Hearn wanted so he got rewarded for it. I'd like to think signing Ortiz and showcasing him over here is to build a potential Joshua mega fight. So far, Ortiz hasn't kept his side of the deal at all.
That or Ortiz has been signed to deal with any potential rival that Hearn doesn't want Joshua in with. That seems ridiculous to me though

man wrote:so the boxrec no1 heavy weight in the world
is not really up to a really big fight. something
is profoundly wrong about this division.

Yeah, Wlad, Fury, and Povetkin have been out for various reason and got dropped for inativity.

BitPlayer wrote:

man wrote:so the boxrec no1 heavy weight in the world
is not really up to a really big fight. something
is profoundly wrong about this division.

Yeah, Wlad, Fury, and Povetkin have been out for various reason and got dropped for inativity.

i know. still, when i look at the rankings
right now, they make me just ... sad.
something is profoundly wrong in this
division. i understand all the reasons
given, and still ... this is pathetic.

who were the last three opponents
of the current top three guys? it is not
even ridiculous anymore. alle these guys
are no champions, these are ... clowns.
and the biggest of them all has a nervous
breakdown ...

goodness.

Ortiz is not top 5, IMO.

I never had him top 3. We'll see what happens when he fights chisora, might be trouble.

I always seem to have this risk v reward debate with my friends though.

The problem with the heavyweights is the marketability as much as the talent.

The decent fighters like Ortiz need to pick up a title, or make themselves popular, otherwise there's no reason to fight them. Without being ticket sellers or having something the top guys want, why would you do it? I appreciate people seeking sporting challenges, but at the end of the day in a sport where one shot can ruin your life, it has to be worthwhile financially.

Scott and Allen are both fringe-known to fans in Britain, with reasonably recognisable names. It was important for Ortiz to look great in both fights and build a bit of momentum to get something bigger. I'm a bit disappointed he hasn't done that. Chisora and Whyte both did more for their chances with their performances just by being involved in an exciting fight.

Not anywhere near top 3

ClivePatrickLyons wrote:Not anywhere near top 3

Who would you have ahead of him?

He's looked very lacklustre in his last two, but it's hard for me to find enough names to put him far off the top 5.

Is Fury still active? If so, he's definitely ahead of Ortiz

Guys like Haye and Parker are very arguable though IMO.

ginty wrote:

crusader wrote:

ClivePatrickLyons wrote:Not anywhere near top 3

Who would you have ahead of him?

Fury ..wlad.. Wilder...Joshua... Haye...povetkin ...Parker

If you think he is then that's ok mate

I don't think he's top 3, but which active fighters should clearly be ranked ahead of him?

I think wlad, Joshua & wilder are clearly ahead of him. Several guys can pop in at #4, including Ortiz.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I think wlad, Joshua & wilder are clearly ahead of him. Several guys can pop in at #4, including Ortiz.

It depends on whether you're talking about best or most accomplished. I think Ortiz is pretty clearly a better boxer than Wilder, although Wilder's superior athleticism and size would give him a good chance of outboxing him from the outside.

jezzamundo wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I think wlad, Joshua & wilder are clearly ahead of him. Several guys can pop in at #4, including Ortiz.

It depends on whether you're talking about best or most accomplished. I think Ortiz is pretty clearly a better boxer than Wilder, although Wilder's superior athleticism and size would give him a good chance of outboxing him from the outside.

wlad is the only heavyweight with serious accomplishments, you pretty much have to rate heavyweights with your eyes.

man wrote:so the boxrec no1 heavy weight in the world
is not really up to a really big fight. something
is profoundly wrong about this division.

That's mostly raiting's problem...and the inactivity of most of the HW top guys...

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I think wlad, Joshua & wilder are clearly ahead of him. Several guys can pop in at #4, including Ortiz.

that's how i see it.