I. Marciano VS Frazier. Who wins? Marciano should have the punch to finish Frazier, but would Rocky's chin hold up long enough to end it against Joe's onslaught? Esp. considering that Rocky rarely stopped anyone early(OR PUT THEM DOWN FOR THAT MATTER) and Joe's chin would make that feat even harder. Also, Joe has probably finished more good fighters earlier than Rocky. Who wins?
II. Frazier VS a field of boxers other than Ali. Who wins? Even lb. for lb. Not boxer-puncher. Known only as a boxer. Is their another boxer that would beat Smokin' Joe? Ex. Holmes, Sugar Ray Robinson, etc. Would Frazier win or would someone else(the field) pull it off?
I. Marciano VS Frazier. II. Frazier VS Any boxer using that style other Ali?
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aajayunlimited
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Re: I. Marciano VS Frazier. II. Frazier VS Any boxer using that style other Ali?
1. I'll leave that one to others, there's been plenty Rocky vs xxxxx debates recently
2. You could have worded this one better but what I think you asked is an interesting question. Could Joe Frazier be outboxed by a pure boxer?
Firstly it was not pure boxing ability that beat Frazier. Ali had to dig in and match him physically, he had to use his speed and most importantly incredible toughness and endurance to stick with Frazier, both in victory and defeat.
There are, of course, technically far more skilled boxers in the history of the sport but would those fighters be able to with stand the Frazier onslaught without Ali's ability to absorb punishment?
I'm not sure. I certainly don't think there's a heavyweight who fits the bill. The only guys I would pick to win against Frazier would be guys with considerable physical advantages (height, weight, reach, power etc) or someone who could meet him and stand up to him. Larry Holmes is possibly the only one I can think of but even then I don't think he holds him off with the jab, he'd have to go to the trenches to get the win.
P4P comparison?
I've always thought that kind of style and gameplan was the key to breaking down Mayweather. A few tried to beat him up but I don't anyone could bring the hurt the way smokin Joe could. I think if you could match these 2 up p4p, Joe breaks him up inside.
Willie Pep? Saddler showed he could be knocked out of his stride
I'm struggling to think of a 'pure boxer' who could hold Joe off without having the physical attributes to match him in a war
2. You could have worded this one better but what I think you asked is an interesting question. Could Joe Frazier be outboxed by a pure boxer?
Firstly it was not pure boxing ability that beat Frazier. Ali had to dig in and match him physically, he had to use his speed and most importantly incredible toughness and endurance to stick with Frazier, both in victory and defeat.
There are, of course, technically far more skilled boxers in the history of the sport but would those fighters be able to with stand the Frazier onslaught without Ali's ability to absorb punishment?
I'm not sure. I certainly don't think there's a heavyweight who fits the bill. The only guys I would pick to win against Frazier would be guys with considerable physical advantages (height, weight, reach, power etc) or someone who could meet him and stand up to him. Larry Holmes is possibly the only one I can think of but even then I don't think he holds him off with the jab, he'd have to go to the trenches to get the win.
P4P comparison?
I've always thought that kind of style and gameplan was the key to breaking down Mayweather. A few tried to beat him up but I don't anyone could bring the hurt the way smokin Joe could. I think if you could match these 2 up p4p, Joe breaks him up inside.
Willie Pep? Saddler showed he could be knocked out of his stride
I'm struggling to think of a 'pure boxer' who could hold Joe off without having the physical attributes to match him in a war
Re: I. Marciano VS Frazier. II. Frazier VS Any boxer using that style other Ali?
Tunney would have beaten Marciano super easy... Same way he beat Dempsey -- by putting a million gloves in his face.
Holmes would beat Marciano to death.. Just too big for him.. Even more so Lewis, the K Bros, Joshua, Ortiz, Foreman, Liston, Tyson, Johnson, and Jeffries.
Marciano was 49-0, but the product of his time -- an historically weak Heavyweight Division with no good big men.
It was also great management and matchmaking... Frazier was undefeated in as many title fights as Marciano before he met Foreman and was killed in 2 rounds... Rocky struggled to stop old Light Heavyweights Archie Moore and Don Cockell.. Most good big Heavyweights would run over those guys like road kill.
Holmes would beat Marciano to death.. Just too big for him.. Even more so Lewis, the K Bros, Joshua, Ortiz, Foreman, Liston, Tyson, Johnson, and Jeffries.
Marciano was 49-0, but the product of his time -- an historically weak Heavyweight Division with no good big men.
It was also great management and matchmaking... Frazier was undefeated in as many title fights as Marciano before he met Foreman and was killed in 2 rounds... Rocky struggled to stop old Light Heavyweights Archie Moore and Don Cockell.. Most good big Heavyweights would run over those guys like road kill.