Sorry for stealing this from the lad that usually does these
But I had a pertinent question for all you historians
Have you ever seen a more one sided thrashing in what was supposed to be a fighters most challenging and evenly matched opponent to date?
On This Day: Joe Calzaghe dominates Jeff Lacy
Re: On This Day: Joe Calzaghe dominates Jeff Lacy
On March 4 2006 Joe Calzaghe sealed his defining victory. Relive the magnificent night with Claude Abrams original ringside report
Joe Calzaghe
Action Images/Andrew Couldridge
THE credit and accolades coming Joe Calzaghe’s way are immensely deserved.
He did himself and his country proud. The 33-year-old Welshman had for years defended his ability and vowed to prove his worth when the right challenge came his way.
When it did – in the early hours of Sunday morning before a crowd of around 12,000 at the MEN Arena – Joe delivered a performance that surpassed the expectation of probably his most trusted believers.
Calzaghe’s victory over American Jeff Lacy was beyond emphatic. He nailed himself down as the best super-middle in the world and undoubtedly the finest since Roy Jones ruled the weight 10 years ago.
His record – 41 straight wins, 18 successful defences, unified champion and champion since 1997 – is impeccable.
The victory over Lacy was so scintillating and convincing he may have scared off potential rivals. I suppose it will weed out the very best – those who seek to establish themselves as the finest of their era will be drawn to Joe. But if there are no takers it will say something for the Welshman.
Lacy (11st 13lbs) wasn’t an ordinary American. The muscular Floridian came with awesome credentials: IBF and IBO champion, undefeated (in 21 fights), at his physical peak, a former Olympian and, according to his promoter Gary Shaw, the future for the sport in the United States.
But Calzaghe (12st) tore him apart, quite literally, and later even revealed he’d done so with a swollen left hand (from about the eighth).
Lacy bled from both eyes and his nose. He was pounded unmercifully for round after round. And when in the last Calzaghe could have coasted to victory, having dominated almost every second of every session, Joe instead opted to shoot for the finish. He knocked Lacy down.
Amazingly, given how many punches Lacy absorbed, it was the only time the American was floored legitimately. Several times he was pushed over.
But for a point deducted in the 11th – when Calzaghe, holding Lacy’s head in a lock with his right arm tried to cheekily throw a punch at the American behind his back using the left – Joe would have scored a shut-out victory.
I had the WBO champ winning by 119-107, as did judges Adelaide Byrd of Las Vegas and Roy Francis from England. Nelson Vazquez of Puerto Rico was more generous than his colleagues, though his 119-105 included a few wider rounds and that was understandable given Calzaghe’s dominance.
I salute Joe for an incredible display, but also Lacy for such immense courage and durability.
Like a man locked in a burning house and engulfed in flames but still trying to find a way out, Lacy refused to concede.
Jeff kept storming into Calzaghe, desperate to land a telling punch that might produce a knockout and one of the most remarkable reversals of fortune in the sport’s history.
But the more Lacy tried, the more Calzaghe bombarded him, and during the last three rounds I thought there was a sensible argument for withdrawing the visitor on compassionate grounds and sparing him further torture.
Lacy may pay heavily for his boldness. I would be surprised if he were ever the same again because this was a ferocious hiding, a beating more one-sided than any I can recall in a contest of this stature during my two decades reporting on boxing around the world. Calzaghe set off at such an intense pace that it seemed he had invested in an early finish and would surely be found wanting if Lacy were still standing six rounds later.
But throwing punches at a rate that even Filipino super-feather Manny Pacquiao would regard as hot, Calzaghe amazingly never once wavered and that is a sharp testament to his extraordinary fitness, confidence (Joe looked so relaxed) and will to win.
Lacy was taken by complete surprise. After three minutes his nose bled. He’d hit Calzaghe with a couple of powerhouse rights and Joe waded straight back, scoring with three and four punches at a time.
That was a trend that was never broken. Throw in a snapping and accurate jab from the Welshman, too, and Lacy, the favourite, was bamboozled. He tried crouching and coming in low, but Calzaghe hit him with fabulous left uppercuts.
The plan was quite straightforward: when Lacy advanced, Calzaghe would let his hands go in fast, flashy but stiff flurries and then spin off to the side.
It was a masterclass. Even when Lacy tried storming into Calzaghe, like at the beginning of the third, Joe was prepared to stand and trade. The Welshman, ducking and countering with greater handspeed, always emerged on top.
The crowd started chanting “Easy, easy” and, in truth, Calzaghe was making it seem ridiculously simple.
He got cocky and waved his left fist before throwing the right.
By the fourth there was no sign of Joe fading. Calzaghe was off his stool for this and the fifth a good 10 seconds before Lacy rose, sending out a dispiriting psychological message.
Lacy was cut on the corner of the right eye (six stitches) in the fourth, probably from an accidental butt.
Later in the round the left eye bled as well as Calzaghe, showing no mercy, turned up the volume and connected so many times that I thought Lacy was sure to go down.
Somehow, Lacy survived. But he let out a deep sigh and marched back to his stool, only to be met by more fusillades in the fifth.
Lacy showed magnificent heart to make it through the sixth. And his sportsmanship was exemplary – he never moaned much about Joe coming in dangerously with his head or shoulder.
Every so often Lacy would land a meaty right, but Calzaghe sprayed the American with blows from all angles and the seventh ended with a tremendous exchange by a neutral corner. Lacy, unable to cope with Joe’s speed, was sent reeling into the ropes at one stage, but continued to search for the haymaker.
Coming out for the eighth, Calzaghe still appeared incredibly fresh. He jolted Lacy with four straight shots, waited for Lacy to advance and then nailed him with a left uppercut. It was superb.
Calzaghe continued to dominate, finishing the eighth and ninth with a blitz of right-lefts. Lacy bled from the mouth. His face was a mess.
Astonishingly, Calzaghe showed no respite, scoring with another fabulous left uppercut in the 10th and later in the round drilling Lacy with nine or 10 shots in rapid succession. Lacy kept trying, but Calzaghe wrong-footed him and sent the
American falling into the ropes, as if adding ridicule to the roasting.
In the 11th, which Calzaghe also ruled, Joe had the point taken away, but it made no difference. Lacy needed a knockout and was sure to give it everything in the last.
Calzaghe met him head on, though, and a series of uppercuts left Lacy on shaky legs but refusing to fall over and attempting to hold.
Once he saw the American flounder, Calzaghe, so accurate as well, pounced and a flurry of blows finally sent Lacy untidily to the deck, rising at four for referee Raul Caiz’s eight-count.
Trying to escape being stopped, Lacy held some more as he came under another furious attack. He pinned Joe’s right glove to his sides using his left arm, but Calzaghe started swiping Lacy with the other.
Following a welcome respite for Lacy – to repair some loose tape on his glove – Calzaghe wanted to finish as he had started, blazing with both hands. Lacy’s legs still looked shaky and a series of uppercuts in the dying seconds nearly spared us the formality of hearing the scores.
This was as good as it gets. Calzaghe had proved his point. Lacy didn’t attend the post-fight press conference and took the morning flight out of Manchester back to Florida to lick his wounds.
But trainer Dan Birmingham and promoter Gary Shaw commended Calzaghe, as did every breathing soul in the arena.
“I thought I’d be here telling you how Lacy was the saviour of boxing,” said Shaw. “I’d have bet my house this wouldn’t have turned out this way. It’s a bitter pill to swallow. But Joe followed his gameplan and Jeff didn’t.”
But if Shaw wasn’t entirely forthcoming in his praise for Calzaghe, Birmingham didn’t hold back.
“Joe was a master at distance and timing. I’ve never seen a better performance from any fighter the world over.”
From the trainer of Ronald “Winky” Wright that’s some compliment indeed, but hardly an exaggeration.
Joe Calzaghe
Action Images/Andrew Couldridge
THE credit and accolades coming Joe Calzaghe’s way are immensely deserved.
He did himself and his country proud. The 33-year-old Welshman had for years defended his ability and vowed to prove his worth when the right challenge came his way.
When it did – in the early hours of Sunday morning before a crowd of around 12,000 at the MEN Arena – Joe delivered a performance that surpassed the expectation of probably his most trusted believers.
Calzaghe’s victory over American Jeff Lacy was beyond emphatic. He nailed himself down as the best super-middle in the world and undoubtedly the finest since Roy Jones ruled the weight 10 years ago.
His record – 41 straight wins, 18 successful defences, unified champion and champion since 1997 – is impeccable.
The victory over Lacy was so scintillating and convincing he may have scared off potential rivals. I suppose it will weed out the very best – those who seek to establish themselves as the finest of their era will be drawn to Joe. But if there are no takers it will say something for the Welshman.
Lacy (11st 13lbs) wasn’t an ordinary American. The muscular Floridian came with awesome credentials: IBF and IBO champion, undefeated (in 21 fights), at his physical peak, a former Olympian and, according to his promoter Gary Shaw, the future for the sport in the United States.
But Calzaghe (12st) tore him apart, quite literally, and later even revealed he’d done so with a swollen left hand (from about the eighth).
Lacy bled from both eyes and his nose. He was pounded unmercifully for round after round. And when in the last Calzaghe could have coasted to victory, having dominated almost every second of every session, Joe instead opted to shoot for the finish. He knocked Lacy down.
Amazingly, given how many punches Lacy absorbed, it was the only time the American was floored legitimately. Several times he was pushed over.
But for a point deducted in the 11th – when Calzaghe, holding Lacy’s head in a lock with his right arm tried to cheekily throw a punch at the American behind his back using the left – Joe would have scored a shut-out victory.
I had the WBO champ winning by 119-107, as did judges Adelaide Byrd of Las Vegas and Roy Francis from England. Nelson Vazquez of Puerto Rico was more generous than his colleagues, though his 119-105 included a few wider rounds and that was understandable given Calzaghe’s dominance.
I salute Joe for an incredible display, but also Lacy for such immense courage and durability.
Like a man locked in a burning house and engulfed in flames but still trying to find a way out, Lacy refused to concede.
Jeff kept storming into Calzaghe, desperate to land a telling punch that might produce a knockout and one of the most remarkable reversals of fortune in the sport’s history.
But the more Lacy tried, the more Calzaghe bombarded him, and during the last three rounds I thought there was a sensible argument for withdrawing the visitor on compassionate grounds and sparing him further torture.
Lacy may pay heavily for his boldness. I would be surprised if he were ever the same again because this was a ferocious hiding, a beating more one-sided than any I can recall in a contest of this stature during my two decades reporting on boxing around the world. Calzaghe set off at such an intense pace that it seemed he had invested in an early finish and would surely be found wanting if Lacy were still standing six rounds later.
But throwing punches at a rate that even Filipino super-feather Manny Pacquiao would regard as hot, Calzaghe amazingly never once wavered and that is a sharp testament to his extraordinary fitness, confidence (Joe looked so relaxed) and will to win.
Lacy was taken by complete surprise. After three minutes his nose bled. He’d hit Calzaghe with a couple of powerhouse rights and Joe waded straight back, scoring with three and four punches at a time.
That was a trend that was never broken. Throw in a snapping and accurate jab from the Welshman, too, and Lacy, the favourite, was bamboozled. He tried crouching and coming in low, but Calzaghe hit him with fabulous left uppercuts.
The plan was quite straightforward: when Lacy advanced, Calzaghe would let his hands go in fast, flashy but stiff flurries and then spin off to the side.
It was a masterclass. Even when Lacy tried storming into Calzaghe, like at the beginning of the third, Joe was prepared to stand and trade. The Welshman, ducking and countering with greater handspeed, always emerged on top.
The crowd started chanting “Easy, easy” and, in truth, Calzaghe was making it seem ridiculously simple.
He got cocky and waved his left fist before throwing the right.
By the fourth there was no sign of Joe fading. Calzaghe was off his stool for this and the fifth a good 10 seconds before Lacy rose, sending out a dispiriting psychological message.
Lacy was cut on the corner of the right eye (six stitches) in the fourth, probably from an accidental butt.
Later in the round the left eye bled as well as Calzaghe, showing no mercy, turned up the volume and connected so many times that I thought Lacy was sure to go down.
Somehow, Lacy survived. But he let out a deep sigh and marched back to his stool, only to be met by more fusillades in the fifth.
Lacy showed magnificent heart to make it through the sixth. And his sportsmanship was exemplary – he never moaned much about Joe coming in dangerously with his head or shoulder.
Every so often Lacy would land a meaty right, but Calzaghe sprayed the American with blows from all angles and the seventh ended with a tremendous exchange by a neutral corner. Lacy, unable to cope with Joe’s speed, was sent reeling into the ropes at one stage, but continued to search for the haymaker.
Coming out for the eighth, Calzaghe still appeared incredibly fresh. He jolted Lacy with four straight shots, waited for Lacy to advance and then nailed him with a left uppercut. It was superb.
Calzaghe continued to dominate, finishing the eighth and ninth with a blitz of right-lefts. Lacy bled from the mouth. His face was a mess.
Astonishingly, Calzaghe showed no respite, scoring with another fabulous left uppercut in the 10th and later in the round drilling Lacy with nine or 10 shots in rapid succession. Lacy kept trying, but Calzaghe wrong-footed him and sent the
American falling into the ropes, as if adding ridicule to the roasting.
In the 11th, which Calzaghe also ruled, Joe had the point taken away, but it made no difference. Lacy needed a knockout and was sure to give it everything in the last.
Calzaghe met him head on, though, and a series of uppercuts left Lacy on shaky legs but refusing to fall over and attempting to hold.
Once he saw the American flounder, Calzaghe, so accurate as well, pounced and a flurry of blows finally sent Lacy untidily to the deck, rising at four for referee Raul Caiz’s eight-count.
Trying to escape being stopped, Lacy held some more as he came under another furious attack. He pinned Joe’s right glove to his sides using his left arm, but Calzaghe started swiping Lacy with the other.
Following a welcome respite for Lacy – to repair some loose tape on his glove – Calzaghe wanted to finish as he had started, blazing with both hands. Lacy’s legs still looked shaky and a series of uppercuts in the dying seconds nearly spared us the formality of hearing the scores.
This was as good as it gets. Calzaghe had proved his point. Lacy didn’t attend the post-fight press conference and took the morning flight out of Manchester back to Florida to lick his wounds.
But trainer Dan Birmingham and promoter Gary Shaw commended Calzaghe, as did every breathing soul in the arena.
“I thought I’d be here telling you how Lacy was the saviour of boxing,” said Shaw. “I’d have bet my house this wouldn’t have turned out this way. It’s a bitter pill to swallow. But Joe followed his gameplan and Jeff didn’t.”
But if Shaw wasn’t entirely forthcoming in his praise for Calzaghe, Birmingham didn’t hold back.
“Joe was a master at distance and timing. I’ve never seen a better performance from any fighter the world over.”
From the trainer of Ronald “Winky” Wright that’s some compliment indeed, but hardly an exaggeration.
Re: On This Day: Joe Calzaghe dominates Jeff Lacy
There was a thread a while back on champions dominating their toughest looking opponents, some of the names that came up were.davie wrote:Sorry for stealing this from the lad that usually does these
But I had a pertinent question for all you historians
Have you ever seen a more one sided thrashing in what was supposed to be a fighters most challenging and evenly matched opponent to date?
Monzon UD Briscoe
Wilfredo Gomez KO Zarate
McCallum KO Julian Jackson
Re: On This Day: Joe Calzaghe dominates Jeff Lacy
Jeff Lacy had a good left-hook, a crowd-pleasing fighting style, a fine build and a huge heart. But he was far too easy to hit and seemed to be unable to learn the boxing skills needed to a solid professional fighter, all of which became very apparent when he was essentially a human punching bag in his bout with Joe Calzaghe. Why didn't Lacy's corner make an effort to get the bout stopped in the seventh or eighth round, if not earlier? After that bout, Lacy was essentially a "shot" fighter and took some other beatings while facing lesser opposition.
- Chuck Johnston
- Chuck Johnston
Re: On This Day: Joe Calzaghe dominates Jeff Lacy
How about Salvador Sanchez KO Wilfredo Gomez??? Sanchez Beat Gomez inside and outside in dominant fashion.J-C wrote:There was a thread a while back on champions dominating their toughest looking opponents, some of the names that came up were.davie wrote:Sorry for stealing this from the lad that usually does these
But I had a pertinent question for all you historians
Have you ever seen a more one sided thrashing in what was supposed to be a fighters most challenging and evenly matched opponent to date?
Monzon UD Briscoe
Wilfredo Gomez KO Zarate
McCallum KO Julian Jackson
I wasn't impressed with Calzaghe's domination of Lacy... basically because Lacy couldn't box worth a damn... If Jermain Taylor outboxes you by a ton, you've got real problems... Taylor had gone down to a few KO defeats and he was asked "Why Jeff Lacy???" ... Jermain said, "Basically it's about getting a win."
Re: On This Day: Joe Calzaghe dominates Jeff Lacy
The nature of that win though.Kalan wrote:How about Salvador Sanchez KO Wilfredo Gomez??? Sanchez Beat Gomez inside and outside in dominant fashion.J-C wrote:There was a thread a while back on champions dominating their toughest looking opponents, some of the names that came up were.davie wrote:Sorry for stealing this from the lad that usually does these
But I had a pertinent question for all you historians
Have you ever seen a more one sided thrashing in what was supposed to be a fighters most challenging and evenly matched opponent to date?
Monzon UD Briscoe
Wilfredo Gomez KO Zarate
McCallum KO Julian Jackson
I wasn't impressed with Calzaghe's domination of Lacy... basically because Lacy couldn't box worth a damn... If Jermain Taylor outboxes you by a ton, you've got real problems... Taylor had gone down to a few KO defeats and he was asked "Why Jeff Lacy???" ... Jermain said, "Basically it's about getting a win."
I know we all know after the fact that Lacy was more hype than substance but he had still reached a decent level before being utterly annihilated by Joe.
I haven't seen that level of one sidedness ever at the top level, it was a total masterclass. Christ many world champions today probably couldn't make me look that incompetent
Re: On This Day: Joe Calzaghe dominates Jeff Lacy
@Davie.
An interesting fight for sure...well worth reading JC's frank and very good "No Ordinary Joe" for some of the answers and best background.
Calzaghe was seriously pissed-off by the way his own career was evolving and the major hype around Lacy.....and he actually considered Lacy to be very beatable (from the outset) and was frustrated that injuries and poor opponents had turned him into something of a 'sideshow' champion.
The Calzaghe camp settled on a strategy early, let all the attention focus on Lacy and felt that they had faced better already when Joe had been in with Eubank.
It was one of those fights where the fighter had relatively few doubts and was relishing the night; but others thought it was an acid test.
An interesting fight for sure...well worth reading JC's frank and very good "No Ordinary Joe" for some of the answers and best background.
Calzaghe was seriously pissed-off by the way his own career was evolving and the major hype around Lacy.....and he actually considered Lacy to be very beatable (from the outset) and was frustrated that injuries and poor opponents had turned him into something of a 'sideshow' champion.
The Calzaghe camp settled on a strategy early, let all the attention focus on Lacy and felt that they had faced better already when Joe had been in with Eubank.
It was one of those fights where the fighter had relatively few doubts and was relishing the night; but others thought it was an acid test.
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handsofstone
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Re: On This Day: Joe Calzaghe dominates Jeff Lacy
Loved this fight, I never seen such a one sided beating in my life, fair enough Lacy never went on to become anything special but the win for Calzaghe eventually gave him the worldwide attention he deserved
Re: On This Day: Joe Calzaghe dominates Jeff Lacy
Worst fight I ever called in advance....ouch...still embarrassed.
To add insult to injury on this fight.....
Jeff Lacy had just had a full length 60 minutes interview....essentially claiming him as the "next big thing" in boxing.
I'll bet a whole lot of smart money was earned that night for those who had really paid attention to both fighters careers.
Yeah....not me.
As I recall Lacy was favored......?
To add insult to injury on this fight.....
Jeff Lacy had just had a full length 60 minutes interview....essentially claiming him as the "next big thing" in boxing.
I'll bet a whole lot of smart money was earned that night for those who had really paid attention to both fighters careers.
Yeah....not me.
As I recall Lacy was favored......?
Re: On This Day: Joe Calzaghe dominates Jeff Lacy
I've seen many fights at the top level that were as one-sided...davie wrote:I haven't seen that level of one sidedness ever at the top level
Foreman vs Frazier 1... Liston vs Patterson X 2... Carter vs Griffith... Roy Jones vs Montel Griffin 2... Napoles vs Cokes X 2... Patterson vs Moore... McCallum vs Jackson... Jofre vs Saldivar... Tyson vs Spinks... Frazier vs Ellis... Sanchez vs Gomez... Walters vs Donaire... Russell vs Gonzalez... Lomachenko vs Martinez... Mayweather vs Gatti... And many others that come to mind to mind that were total wipe-outs --
I'm not going to give Calzaghe that much credit for dominating a guy who hadn't achieved a whole lot.. I would have been more impressed if he fought Carl Froch instead of B-Hop and Jones when they were so old... and if he fought Dawson when he was undefeated -- because I thought that was winnable.
Re: On This Day: Joe Calzaghe dominates Jeff Lacy
Lacy was far more proven than Froch at the time. And Froch only became champion after Calzaghe fought Hopkins and Jones. No one at the time would have given him more credit, Froch was just a British champion at the time. In hindsight knowing what we know now a Froch fight would have meant far more than Jones (I think the Hopkins fight was more important personally). But that's hindsight for you, no one could have known the career Froch would go on to have.Kalan wrote:I've seen many fights at the top level that were as one-sided...davie wrote:I haven't seen that level of one sidedness ever at the top level
Foreman vs Frazier 1... Liston vs Patterson X 2... Carter vs Griffith... Roy Jones vs Montel Griffin 2... Napoles vs Cokes X 2... Patterson vs Moore... McCallum vs Jackson... Jofre vs Saldivar... Tyson vs Spinks... Frazier vs Ellis... Sanchez vs Gomez... Walters vs Donaire... Russell vs Gonzalez... Lomachenko vs Martinez... Mayweather vs Gatti... And many others that come to mind to mind that were total wipe-outs --
I'm not going to give Calzaghe that much credit for dominating a guy who hadn't achieved a whole lot.. I would have been more impressed if he fought Carl Froch instead of B-Hop and Jones when they were so old... and if he fought Dawson when he was undefeated -- because I thought that was winnable.
Re: On This Day: Joe Calzaghe dominates Jeff Lacy
I'll give you some of those (Lomachenko being a very good example), but I should perhaps have been more specific about what I meant by one-sidedKalan wrote:I've seen many fights at the top level that were as one-sided...davie wrote:I haven't seen that level of one sidedness ever at the top level
Foreman vs Frazier 1... Liston vs Patterson X 2... Carter vs Griffith... Roy Jones vs Montel Griffin 2... Napoles vs Cokes X 2... Patterson vs Moore... McCallum vs Jackson... Jofre vs Saldivar... Tyson vs Spinks... Frazier vs Ellis... Sanchez vs Gomez... Walters vs Donaire... Russell vs Gonzalez... Lomachenko vs Martinez... Mayweather vs Gatti... And many others that come to mind to mind that were total wipe-outs --
I'm not going to give Calzaghe that much credit for dominating a guy who hadn't achieved a whole lot.. I would have been more impressed if he fought Carl Froch instead of B-Hop and Jones when they were so old... and if he fought Dawson when he was undefeated -- because I thought that was winnable.
Some of the fights you listed there were knock outs or complete blow outs. I'm talking 12 rounds of 1 sided dominance
As for the end of Joe's career, he'd achieved what he wanted to achieve. Long reigning champ, big win against Kessler had established him as the best, which he had been at SMW for quite some time. The Lacy fight was a stand out performance and showed how very good he could be at his best.
He wanted a couple big paydays at the end and he had earned that right to go over and get his big day in Vegas and MSG against a couple of legends to close out his career. It's worth pointing out what Hopkins went on to do after that defeat to Joe, that win deserved a lot more credit than it got. Yes Hopkins was old but Joe was no spring chicken at 36 and moving up a weight class to beat a legend away from home.
And as you point out, the Dawson fight was winnable. I would have favoured him heavily against Froch or Dawson around 2008. And had he fought those winnable fights would he have been givenm any great deal more credit than closing out the show against a couple of living legends?
Joe had earned his stripes, he had nothing to prove to no one
Re: On This Day: Joe Calzaghe dominates Jeff Lacy
Hopkins was the man at LHW at the time, don't forget that.
And Carl by his own words said he wouldn't go up LHW to face Calzaghe who had struggled at the 168 weight for a while. Carl wanted a catchweight fight, it was never likely with no belts on the line and Froch at the time being only a British champion.
And Carl by his own words said he wouldn't go up LHW to face Calzaghe who had struggled at the 168 weight for a while. Carl wanted a catchweight fight, it was never likely with no belts on the line and Froch at the time being only a British champion.
Re: On This Day: Joe Calzaghe dominates Jeff Lacy
Lacy was not proven in the least, ever... He never beat anyone good are you kidding?TheDarkDestroyer wrote:Lacy was far more proven than Froch at the time. And Froch only became champion after Calzaghe fought Hopkins and Jones. No one at the time would have given him more credit, Froch was just a British champion at the time. In hindsight knowing what we know now a Froch fight would have meant far more than Jones (I think the Hopkins fight was more important personally). But that's hindsight for you, no one could have known the career Froch would go on to have.Kalan wrote:I've seen many fights at the top level that were as one-sided...davie wrote:I haven't seen that level of one sidedness ever at the top level
Foreman vs Frazier 1... Liston vs Patterson X 2... Carter vs Griffith... Roy Jones vs Montel Griffin 2... Napoles vs Cokes X 2... Patterson vs Moore... McCallum vs Jackson... Jofre vs Saldivar... Tyson vs Spinks... Frazier vs Ellis... Sanchez vs Gomez... Walters vs Donaire... Russell vs Gonzalez... Lomachenko vs Martinez... Mayweather vs Gatti... And many others that come to mind to mind that were total wipe-outs --
I'm not going to give Calzaghe that much credit for dominating a guy who hadn't achieved a whole lot.. I would have been more impressed if he fought Carl Froch instead of B-Hop and Jones when they were so old... and if he fought Dawson when he was undefeated -- because I thought that was winnable.
Everybody knew Froch was going to be big when he had 16 fights... He was a very big hitter and very tough... Not the greatest boxer but guys who led with their head like Bute and Groves - you always knew Froch was going to knock them kicking.. Calzaghe gave you his head to shoot at like Ken Norton.. I liked Froch in this matchup when he had 20 fights and Calzaghe was fighting bums like Peter Manfredo instead of Forch.. It was a massive domestic UK matchup like Forch-Groves.. It would have sold out Wembley Stadium in 20 minutes... Groves had 19 fights and was overrated. It didn't MATTER. You couldn't get a ticket.
Re: On This Day: Joe Calzaghe dominates Jeff Lacy
So a British super middleweight champion is more proven than an IBF supermiddle weight champion?Kalan wrote:Lacy was not proven in the least, ever... He never beat anyone good are you kidding?TheDarkDestroyer wrote:Lacy was far more proven than Froch at the time. And Froch only became champion after Calzaghe fought Hopkins and Jones. No one at the time would have given him more credit, Froch was just a British champion at the time. In hindsight knowing what we know now a Froch fight would have meant far more than Jones (I think the Hopkins fight was more important personally). But that's hindsight for you, no one could have known the career Froch would go on to have.Kalan wrote:
I've seen many fights at the top level that were as one-sided...
Foreman vs Frazier 1... Liston vs Patterson X 2... Carter vs Griffith... Roy Jones vs Montel Griffin 2... Napoles vs Cokes X 2... Patterson vs Moore... McCallum vs Jackson... Jofre vs Saldivar... Tyson vs Spinks... Frazier vs Ellis... Sanchez vs Gomez... Walters vs Donaire... Russell vs Gonzalez... Lomachenko vs Martinez... Mayweather vs Gatti... And many others that come to mind to mind that were total wipe-outs --
I'm not going to give Calzaghe that much credit for dominating a guy who hadn't achieved a whole lot.. I would have been more impressed if he fought Carl Froch instead of B-Hop and Jones when they were so old... and if he fought Dawson when he was undefeated -- because I thought that was winnable.
Everybody knew Froch was going to be big when he had 16 fights... He was a very big hitter and very tough... Not the greatest boxer but guys who led with their head like Bute and Groves - you always knew Froch was going to knock them kicking.. Calzaghe gave you his head to shoot at like Ken Norton.. I liked Froch in this matchup when he had 20 fights and Calzaghe was fighting bums like Peter Manfredo instead of Forch.. It was a massive domestic UK matchup like Forch-Groves.. It would have sold out Wembley Stadium in 20 minutes... Groves had 19 fights and was overrated. It didn't MATTER. You couldn't get a ticket.
Do me a favour.
And you can pretend you knew this and that about Froch but believe me a fight with Froch wouldn't have sold like Froch-Groves did. Froch simply didn't have groves' profile at the time. Why make things up?
Also, Froch has never been a 'big hitter'. His power has always been cumulative, he's never really shown true one punch knockout power at the top level.
Re: On This Day: Joe Calzaghe dominates Jeff Lacy
I remember talking about Froch to a lad I worked from from Nottingham. He thought he was the mutts nuts.Kalan wrote:Lacy was not proven in the least, ever... He never beat anyone good are you kidding?TheDarkDestroyer wrote:Lacy was far more proven than Froch at the time. And Froch only became champion after Calzaghe fought Hopkins and Jones. No one at the time would have given him more credit, Froch was just a British champion at the time. In hindsight knowing what we know now a Froch fight would have meant far more than Jones (I think the Hopkins fight was more important personally). But that's hindsight for you, no one could have known the career Froch would go on to have.Kalan wrote:
I've seen many fights at the top level that were as one-sided...
Foreman vs Frazier 1... Liston vs Patterson X 2... Carter vs Griffith... Roy Jones vs Montel Griffin 2... Napoles vs Cokes X 2... Patterson vs Moore... McCallum vs Jackson... Jofre vs Saldivar... Tyson vs Spinks... Frazier vs Ellis... Sanchez vs Gomez... Walters vs Donaire... Russell vs Gonzalez... Lomachenko vs Martinez... Mayweather vs Gatti... And many others that come to mind to mind that were total wipe-outs --
I'm not going to give Calzaghe that much credit for dominating a guy who hadn't achieved a whole lot.. I would have been more impressed if he fought Carl Froch instead of B-Hop and Jones when they were so old... and if he fought Dawson when he was undefeated -- because I thought that was winnable.
Everybody knew Froch was going to be big when he had 16 fights... He was a very big hitter and very tough... Not the greatest boxer but guys who led with their head like Bute and Groves - you always knew Froch was going to knock them kicking.. Calzaghe gave you his head to shoot at like Ken Norton.. I liked Froch in this matchup when he had 20 fights and Calzaghe was fighting bums like Peter Manfredo instead of Forch.. It was a massive domestic UK matchup like Forch-Groves.. It would have sold out Wembley Stadium in 20 minutes... Groves had 19 fights and was overrated. It didn't MATTER. You couldn't get a ticket.
I watched him in an early British title fight around the 16 fight mark, before he started calling out Joe. He looked nothing special, he was crude, uncoordinated and made fundamental mistakes that he carried through out his career. He had that Nathan Cleverly trait of occasionally defending with his face, just because he could
I told my mate, he'd probably struggle when he reached world level.
Little did I know at the time that he was a hard bastard
Point being, I think a few had high hopes for Carl, but it was far from being a stick on that he'd reach where he did
At the point he was calling Joe's name, he'd beat guys like Mcghee, Dodson and a faded Robin Reid. Joe had cleared out the SMW division that he'd dominated for years and moved up to fight a couple big money fights in America
Re: On This Day: Joe Calzaghe dominates Jeff Lacy
Jeff's father, Hydra Lacy, was a pro fighter with nineteen known bouts from 1968 to 1975, weighing from 180 to 204 1/2 pounds during that time. Hydra is listed as a "journeyman," but it is in the loosest definition of the term at best. He won only five bouts, two by stoppage; lost twelve, eleven by stoppage; and had draws in the remaining two. Hydra faced the likes of James Scott, Ray Anderson, Vicente Rondon and Mark Tessman while getting knocked out in short order each time.
According to his biography on BoxRec, Hydra is the father of nine children and reportedly was in ill health during 2006.
Jeff's brother, Kenny, had three pro bouts as a heavyweight during 2012, winning two (one by a TKO) and losing one by a TKO.
- Chuck Johnston
According to his biography on BoxRec, Hydra is the father of nine children and reportedly was in ill health during 2006.
Jeff's brother, Kenny, had three pro bouts as a heavyweight during 2012, winning two (one by a TKO) and losing one by a TKO.
- Chuck Johnston
Re: On This Day: Joe Calzaghe dominates Jeff Lacy
Calzaghe cleaned out nothing and dominated nothing... Some of his challengers were pathetic, like 14 wins and nobody ever heard of them. He didn'twant to come to this side of the pond. He wasn't campaigning to be great, just undefeated.. Forget it with Will McIntyre, Branko Sobot, worn out Charles Brewer, Tocker Pudwill, Peter Manfredo and the rest.. And he couldn't fight Froch??? Mikkel Kessler was a big fight I know.. I didn't think he was any good and he hadn't fought anybody good.. but he represented a big fight at 168 and the only seemingly competitive fight for Calzaghe outside of Carl Froch..davie wrote:Point being, I think a few had high hopes for Carl, but it was far from being a stick on that he'd reach where he did
At the point he was calling Joe's name, he'd beat guys like Mcghee, Dodson and a faded Robin Reid. Joe had cleared out the SMW division that he'd dominated for years and moved up to fight a couple big money fights in America
Froch had been the British Empire and Commonwealth Super Middleweight Champion for a number of years and called out Calz from the time he had 15 fights. He was a very formidable Super Middleweight compared to most of the challengers JC fought, who's records were riddled with losses to nobodies. Forch knocked out Robin Reid in 5 and Reid fought a SD with Calzaghe. The Reid win for Froch came within a week of Calzaghe beating Kessler.. It was the perfect time to make the fight.. Kessler won ZERO rounds from Ward but won rounds off Calzaghe by catching him with huge uppercuts that shook the Hell out of him.
I was hopeful the fight would happen because I had Froch all the way -- for the same reason that Mitchell, Hopkins, Jones and Kessler caught Joe on the chin.. Calzaghe led with his head - like Ken Norton, saying "shoot at this buddy." ... Not the way to fight a big puncher or even a sharp boxer.
Re: On This Day: Joe Calzaghe dominates Jeff Lacy
Froch brought no money to the table in 2007/8 when Joe was looking for big paydays to round off his career. Froch was barely known even in the UK at the time. People who followed boxing knew him, and people in Nottingham, nobody else. He didn't start to become a public figure until after he fought Pascal, by which time Calzaghe had finished.
There was simply never a point where it made financial sense for Calzaghe to fight Froch. Of course Froch was calling him out, Calzaghe had the name and brought all the money.
There was simply never a point where it made financial sense for Calzaghe to fight Froch. Of course Froch was calling him out, Calzaghe had the name and brought all the money.
Re: On This Day: Joe Calzaghe dominates Jeff Lacy
Kalan,
You earlier claimed Lacy was unproven and now suggest Froch had proven himself by beating and older version of Robin Reid than the one Jeff Lacy fought and beat. I hate it when people try to change the past on here, I suspect more than likely you had no idea who carl froch was in 2007, especially after you suggesting he would have sold tickets like he did against Groves. Also worth pointing out that Kessler beat Froch.
You earlier claimed Lacy was unproven and now suggest Froch had proven himself by beating and older version of Robin Reid than the one Jeff Lacy fought and beat. I hate it when people try to change the past on here, I suspect more than likely you had no idea who carl froch was in 2007, especially after you suggesting he would have sold tickets like he did against Groves. Also worth pointing out that Kessler beat Froch.
Re: On This Day: Joe Calzaghe dominates Jeff Lacy
TheDarkDestroyer wrote:So a British super middleweight champion is more proven than an IBF supermiddle weight champion?Kalan wrote:Lacy was not proven in the least, ever... He never beat anyone good are you kidding?TheDarkDestroyer wrote:
Lacy was far more proven than Froch at the time. And Froch only became champion after Calzaghe fought Hopkins and Jones. No one at the time would have given him more credit, Froch was just a British champion at the time. In hindsight knowing what we know now a Froch fight would have meant far more than Jones (I think the Hopkins fight was more important personally). But that's hindsight for you, no one could have known the career Froch would go on to have.
Everybody knew Froch was going to be big when he had 16 fights... He was a very big hitter and very tough... Not the greatest boxer but guys who led with their head like Bute and Groves - you always knew Froch was going to knock them kicking.. Calzaghe gave you his head to shoot at like Ken Norton.. I liked Froch in this matchup when he had 20 fights and Calzaghe was fighting bums like Peter Manfredo instead of Forch.. It was a massive domestic UK matchup like Forch-Groves.. It would have sold out Wembley Stadium in 20 minutes... Groves had 19 fights and was overrated. It didn't MATTER. You couldn't get a ticket.
Do me a favour.
And you can pretend you knew this and that about Froch but believe me a fight with Froch wouldn't have sold like Froch-Groves did. Froch simply didn't have groves' profile at the time. Why make things up?
Also, Froch has never been a 'big hitter'. His power has always been cumulative, he's never really shown true one punch knockout power at the top level.
This is clearly true. Additionally though, though it pains me to say it as a Welshman, Joe at no time had the profile that Froch had at the end of his career. By the time he finished pretty much everyone in the UK knew who Carl Froch was and I am not sure this was ever true of Calzaghe. He had Wales behind him, but there aren't that many of us.
Re: On This Day: Joe Calzaghe dominates Jeff Lacy
Jeff Lacy did beat some decent fighters before and after fighting Joe Calzaghe, but it appeared that he took a lot of punishment even in some bouts that he won.
- Chuck Johnston
- Chuck Johnston
Re: On This Day: Joe Calzaghe dominates Jeff Lacy
I'm not suggesting anything. Calzaghe-Lacy was big because people are suckers for hype. Calzaghe struggled with Reid -- so it's a selling point for sure.TheDarkDestroyer wrote:Kalan,
You earlier claimed Lacy was unproven and now suggest Froch had proven himself by beating and older version of Robin Reid than the one Jeff Lacy fought and beat. I hate it when people try to change the past on here, I suspect more than likely you had no idea who carl froch was in 2007, especially after you suggesting he would have sold tickets like he did against Groves. Also worth pointing out that Kessler beat Froch.
But Froch was a much better fighter than Lacy... I knew exactly who Froch was before he had 10 fights... I knew he was going to be big. You could tell he had the sauce by watching him and Lacy didn't have it---no smarts. When Froch got another win as British Empire Champion he would call out Calz -- like Groves called out Froch. Ring magazine would have a headline "Froch wins by KO, calls out Calzaghe" so I think a lot of Americans were following him. He was on American TV knocking guys out. Certainly NOBODY heard of most of Calzaghe's pathetic challengers. Most of them did nothing at all. He was cherry picking it up big time when Froch was 20-0 and JC fought Peter Manfredo. That wasn't a fight. That was a mugging.
Froch fought the upstart tyro, Groves, when GG had only 19 fights. They were the biggest fights the UK ever saw... Froch-Calzaghe would have been bigger.
Re: On This Day: Joe Calzaghe dominates Jeff Lacy
Very true....Froch's early career was not always stellar and he did look dead basic at times, more than a few folk thought he might find a level below world title rank and mainly because he was a tad predictable.remember talking about Froch to a lad I worked from from Nottingham. He thought he was the mutts nuts.
I watched him in an early British title fight around the 16 fight mark, before he started calling out Joe. He looked nothing special, he was crude, uncoordinated and made fundamental mistakes that he carried through out his career. He had that Nathan Cleverly trait of occasionally defending with his face, just because he could
I told my mate, he'd probably struggle when he reached world level.
Little did I know at the time that he was a hard bastard
Point being, I think a few had high hopes for Carl, but it was far from being a stick on that he'd reach where he did
At the point he was calling Joe's name, he'd beat guys like Mcghee, Dodson and a faded Robin Reid. Joe had cleared out the SMW division that he'd dominated for years and moved up to fight a couple big money fights in America
Can remember the truly horrible fight with Matthew Barney and thinking that someone like Benn or even Calzaghe would have found a way to get Barney out of there. Barney stunk plenty of places out...it was almost his calling card...but I did think that and a couple of early performances did not go well for Carl.
But as you said....Froch was made from titanium, both a mentally and physically hard man and over the years McCracken improved his boxing no end. He boxed Abraham beautifully and was bang on when he fought Kessler again.
Froch's book is well worth a read by the way....he wanted the Calzaghe fight badly and did believe he'd win (Carl was not a doubter) but in amongst the annoyance there is a tacit understanding that Joe was at the point where the dollar fights were the right business option.
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Caractacus
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