Terry Norris

[davie]

Interesting character.
I'd never seen him fight, so I started with the blow out of Mugabi and watched the 2nd round KO loss to Julian Jackson (which he was comfortably ahead in)
Looking at his record it makes for interesting reading, the 2 names mentioned above, Don Curry, SRL, Meldrick Taylor, Maurice Blocker, Simon Brown.
Some good names but the initial thought is did he get some of these guys at the right time?

And the disqualifications and fouling...... no shortage of controversy in there.

Thoughts from those that watched him at the time???

[elmersalsa]

To me, one of the most overrated champions in history. He beat washed up former 80s superstars and legends (Sugar Ray Leonard and Donald Curry) and blown up young cats like Meldrick Taylor. That is how he made his name in boxing.

But, once he faced a real fighter, someone of his own size and prime, and that could hit hard, he either loses to them or ducked them (Julian Jackson, Gerald McClellan or Felix "Tito" Trinidad).

[davie]

To me, one of the most overrated champions in history. He beat washed up former 80s superstars and legends (Sugar Ray Leonard and Donald Curry) and blown up young cats like Meldrick Taylor. That is how he made his name in boxing.

But, once he faced a real fighter, someone of his own size and prime, and that could hit hard, he either loses to them or ducked them (Julian Jackson, Gerald McClellan or Felix "Tito" Trinidad).

That was the impression I got reading the record.
Meldrick Taylors only title fight at SWW, against Norris. Yet it was sandwiched between 2 JCC fights at 140lbs
Maurice Blocker again stepped up from 147, then back down after the Norris fights, Simon Brown again a welter weight

Leonard was done as was Don Curry.

And his reign after the controversial Luis Santana trilogy wasn't exactly littered with star quality.

But I have to say, I watched a couple more after posting the thread and he definitely had talent and could bang a bit. His career is nothing if not an interesting tale...
His lack of control, leading to several disqualifications, being an obvious talking point

[Tomasino]

Interesting character.
I'd never seen him fight, so I started with the blow out of Mugabi and watched the 2nd round KO loss to Julian Jackson (which he was comfortably ahead in)
Looking at his record it makes for interesting reading, the 2 names mentioned above, Don Curry, SRL, Meldrick Taylor, Maurice Blocker, Simon Brown.
Some good names but the initial thought is did he get some of these guys at the right time?

And the disqualifications and fouling...... no shortage of controversy in there.

Thoughts from those that watched him at the time???

Physical talent wise he was great, however his chin and discipline let him down. He had an up and down career. I think he went off the rails when he retired, I might be wrong.

[elmersalsa]

"Terrible" Terry Norris was always in great shape. He never wanted to know nothing about the middleweights and super middleweights, though. He was always feasting in BIG MONEY FIGHTS with guys that were smaller than he. He wanted to fight the great Julio Cesar Chavez in a catchweight fight. Also, he wanted the great Pernell Whitaker. But, a talk to fight Felix "Tito" Trinidad in 1996 or a rematch with Julian "The Hawk" Jackson, Terrible Terry was nowhere to be found. He completely IGNORED THEM BIG TIME!

[littlepug]

absolutlely loved Norris and the way he fought, ok its easy to pick at the bones of his career but he was a real force of nature at light middle (think he only had one fight outside lt middle) and his all action style was very pleasing to the eye for my younger self

[Kalan]

Leonard was done as was Don Curry

Leonard wasn't "done" when he fought Norris. He was only 34 and was favored to win... It was only AFTER that fight that he was "washed up." I loved that fight because Leonard had been ducking the top Middleweights for years... Middleweight was an extremely tough division right after Leonard beat Hagler... and it got tougher when Toney showed up.. Leonard wanted nothing to do with the top Middleweghts..

Leonard was one of the few boxers in fistic history who could pick and choose his opponents.. Mayweather, Foreman, and Pacquiao are some others... Their charisma could sell a fight.. They could ignore the best guys in their division and fight who they wanted to.. A SRL fight was going to sell regardless because of Leonard's big name and personality.. There were a lot of people trying to match Leonard with Nunn, McCallum, or Jackson -- who happened to be the 3 Middleweight Champions at the time Leonard fought Norris..

Leonard was a very clever man.. He surveyed the Middleweight landscape and decided 154 was for him... He went after Terry Norris who had previously been blasted out by Julian Jackson in dramatic fashion.. Leonard thought he could get hold of Terry's chin.. I thought Norris was going to beat the Hell out of Leonard and that he probably wasn't going to get much credit for it..

Norris had a very fragile chin and Leonard had a great chin.. But if Terry could keep you off his chin he was as fast and slick as anybody -- and he could hit real good.. I thought Leonard didn't have a chance in Hell because SRL did get hit.. Hearns lit him up.. But SRL could absorb punches a Hell of a lot better than Hearns or Norris could.. But if it's a pure boxing match both Norris or Hearns were going to be a problem for Ray -- if they box real smart and don't catch one.

Both Norris and Hearns could box and punch very well -- but they both had problems being defensively responsible. They didn't have the greatest discipline. No matter how bad Norris was out-boxing Leonard he never went for the KO. That was decided before the fight. They knew Leonard might the biggest name Norris would ever got hold of. They just wanted the win. They kept reminding Terry that he was winning really big and not to go apeshit

[littlepug]

Leonard was done as was Don Curry

Leonard wasn't "done" when he fought Norris. He was only 34 and was favored to win... It was only AFTER that fight that he was "washed up." I loved that fight because Leonard had been ducking the top Middleweights for years... Middleweight was an extremely tough division right after Leonard beat Hagler... and it got tougher when Toney showed up.. Leonard wanted nothing to do with the top Middleweghts..

Leonard was one of the few boxers in fistic history who could pick and choose his opponents.. Mayweather, Foreman, and Pacquiao are some others... Their charisma could sell a fight.. They could ignore the best guys in their division and fight who they wanted to.. A SRL fight was going to sell regardless because of Leonard's big name and personality.. There were a lot of people trying to match Leonard with Nunn, McCallum, or Jackson -- who happened to be the 3 Middleweight Champions at the time Leonard fought Norris..

Leonard was a very clever man.. He surveyed the Middleweight landscape and decided 154 was for him... He went after Terry Norris who had previously been blasted out by Julian Jackson in dramatic fashion.. Leonard thought he could get hold of Terry's chin.. I thought Norris was going to beat the Hell out of Leonard and that he probably wasn't going to get much credit for it..

Norris had a very fragile chin and Leonard had a great chin.. But if Terry could keep you off his chin he was as fast and slick as anybody -- and he could hit real good.. I thought Leonard didn't have a chance in Hell because SRL did get hit.. Hearns lit him up.. But SRL could absorb punches a Hell of a lot better than Hearns or Norris could.. But if it's a pure boxing match both Norris or Hearns were going to be a problem for Ray -- if they box real smart and don't catch one.

Both Norris and Hearns could box and punch very well -- but they both had problems being defensively responsible. They didn't have the greatest discipline. No matter how bad Norris was out-boxing Leonard he never went for the KO. That was decided before the fight. They knew Leonard might the biggest name Norris would ever got hold of. They just wanted the win. They kept reminding Terry that he was winning really big and not to go apeshit

very fragile chin ? you don't get through 20 odd world title fights if you got a very fragile chin, I don't even pay much attention to the Jackson ko as there was virtually nobody jackson couldn't ko

[Noxy]

He was a seriously exciting dude - quick, dangerous, vulnerable and loved a scrap. He was in that many good fights, it would be hard to remember them all. Used to cut patterns in his hair too

[orbtastic]

He beat 16 former, future and reigning world champions. I'm not entirely sure too many boxers could say that.

[Kalan]

Yes... But Jackson got his ass kicked a lot... Norris was capable of out-boxing him if he DIDN'T get hit with a big haymaker.

It's called being defensively responsible -- which Norris and Hearns didn't always fight the smartest fights they could have.

[montrealsuper]

Terry Norris was a great fighter - if he was carefully protected by King Al Haymon style he would be considered an ATG - But Norris was not overly protected nor did he want protection - He was a true champion who fought the best and took on the tricky styles and underrated lesser names - At his best Terry Norris was a beast and if prime Chavez tried to fight Norris he would have been destroyed - If prime Whitaker would have fought Norris he would have been destroyed also - Terry Norris = Great fighter who did not get protection -

[Kalan]

Leonard was done as was Don Curry

Leonard wasn't "done" when he fought Norris. He was only 34 and was favored to win... It was only AFTER that fight that he was "washed up." I loved that fight because Leonard had been ducking the top Middleweights for years... Middleweight was an extremely tough division right after Leonard beat Hagler... and it got tougher when Toney showed up.. Leonard wanted nothing to do with the top Middleweghts..

Leonard was one of the few boxers in fistic history who could pick and choose his opponents.. Mayweather, Foreman, and Pacquiao are some others... Their charisma could sell a fight.. They could ignore the best guys in their division and fight who they wanted to.. A SRL fight was going to sell regardless because of Leonard's big name and personality.. There were a lot of people trying to match Leonard with Nunn, McCallum, or Jackson -- who happened to be the 3 Middleweight Champions at the time Leonard fought Norris..

Leonard was a very clever man.. He surveyed the Middleweight landscape and decided 154 was for him... He went after Terry Norris who had previously been blasted out by Julian Jackson in dramatic fashion.. Leonard thought he could get hold of Terry's chin.. I thought Norris was going to beat the Hell out of Leonard and that he probably wasn't going to get much credit for it..

Norris had a very fragile chin and Leonard had a great chin.. But if Terry could keep you off his chin he was as fast and slick as anybody -- and he could hit real good.. I thought Leonard didn't have a chance in Hell because SRL did get hit.. Hearns lit him up.. But SRL could absorb punches a Hell of a lot better than Hearns or Norris could.. But if it's a pure boxing match both Norris or Hearns were going to be a problem for Ray -- if they box real smart and don't catch one.

Both Norris and Hearns could box and punch very well -- but they both had problems being defensively responsible. They didn't have the greatest discipline. No matter how bad Norris was out-boxing Leonard he never went for the KO. That was decided before the fight. They knew Leonard might the biggest name Norris would ever got hold of. They just wanted the win. They kept reminding Terry that he was winning really big and not to go apeshit

very fragile chin ? you don't get through 20 odd world title fights if you got a very fragile chin, I don't even pay much attention to the Jackson ko as there was virtually nobody jackson couldn't ko

Yes... But Jackson got his ass kicked a lot... Norris was capable of out-boxing him if he DIDN'T get hit with a big haymaker.

It's called being defensively responsible -- which Norris and Hearns didn't always fight the smartest fights they could have.

[Bricks]

Interesting character.
I'd never seen him fight, so I started with the blow out of Mugabi and watched the 2nd round KO loss to Julian Jackson (which he was comfortably ahead in)
Looking at his record it makes for interesting reading, the 2 names mentioned above, Don Curry, SRL, Meldrick Taylor, Maurice Blocker, Simon Brown.
Some good names but the initial thought is did he get some of these guys at the right time?

And the disqualifications and fouling...... no shortage of controversy in there.

Thoughts from those that watched him at the time???

He beat a totally shot Mugabi no matter John had a title and had won a few in a row.

Curry ditto was totally shot but unlike Mugabi who was just a puncher, Donald was one of the most extravagantly gifted fighters ever, so even a totally shot curry outboxed and outpunched Norris in parts of the fight before he basically quit.

SRL was weight drained, doing alcohol and drugs, going through a divorce, inactive and had an ankle injury.....but was still good enough to beat most middleweights. Terry beat him good. His best win.

Meldrick taylor was in decline.

Brown he shared with

Blocker was a good win.

I feel once Terry had beat the shot big names he ruled a very weak division in the mid 90s and didn't take the competitive superfights with those fantastic welter champs of 95/96/97 namely Quartey/Trinidad/ODLH/Chavez

[davie]

I thought Norris was going to beat the Hell out of Leonard

Actually a well thought out and argued post, but I couldn't help pick up on this Kalan, sorry.

But have you ever wrongly predicted a fight?

Could you give me some tips for next weeks bouts?

[Kalan]

I thought Norris was going to beat the Hell out of Leonard

Actually a well thought out and argued post, but I couldn't help pick up on this Kalan, sorry.

But have you ever wrongly predicted a fight?

Could you give me some tips for next weeks bouts?

I've wrongly picked a lot of fights... A fight isn't destined to go one way or another... You do your analysis and figure out what the real odds should be... If you figure boxer A has a 90% chance of winning and the odds give him a 60% chance it's a good bet to make... I figured Norris had an overwhelming chance to beat Leonard.. That didn't mean he was going to win.. That was just the most likely of several possible outcomes.

[wvboxer]

I remember watching Norris coming up on ESPN. Great speed but seemed kind of reckless. I followed his brother Orlin more. I had a good feeling he was going to beat Leonard. Ray had avoided anybody with any speed. I wasn't surprised by the fight although it was pretty sad never actually watched all of it though.

The Santana fights were just stupid. Norris was gifted but not much of a technical boxer.

[GPTM1403]

To me, one of the most overrated champions in history. He beat washed up former 80s superstars and legends (Sugar Ray Leonard and Donald Curry) and blown up young cats like Meldrick Taylor. That is how he made his name in boxing.

But, once he faced a real fighter, someone of his own size and prime, and that could hit hard, he either loses to them or ducked them (Julian Jackson, Gerald McClellan or Felix "Tito" Trinidad).

That was the impression I got reading the record.
Meldrick Taylors only title fight at SWW, against Norris. Yet it was sandwiched between 2 JCC fights at 140lbs
Maurice Blocker again stepped up from 147, then back down after the Norris fights, Simon Brown again a welter weight

Leonard was done as was Don Curry.

And his reign after the controversial Luis Santana trilogy wasn't exactly littered with star quality.

But I have to say, I watched a couple more after posting the thread and he definitely had talent and could bang a bit. His career is nothing if not an interesting tale...
His lack of control, leading to several disqualifications, being an obvious talking point

sums it up perfectly for me

[Syntax Error]

He is definitely an interesting character.

The way his career ended & his current predicament also makes for interesting reading.

He is suffering from neurological damage caused by one punch at the end of his career.

[BoxBuzz]

How is a boxer "comfortably ahead" in round two?

Not that I disagree with the idea that he was outperforming JJ, just that one round does not give much of an edge.


Possible exception....Pac vs Marquez 1.

[Seamus]

I was watching the fight where Norris got stopped by Simon Brown, and one of the commentators said that Norris was benchpressing 310. Wouldn't surprise me, because contrary what the old "experts" believed, weights do not make you slow.

[Ambling Alp II]

Didn't seem to help him that fight though.

[Seamus]

His punching power and handspeed were never a problem. His chin was.

[Bricks]

Yes... But Jackson got his ass kicked a lot... Norris was capable of out-boxing him if he DIDN'T get hit with a big haymaker.

It's called being defensively responsible -- which Norris and Hearns didn't always fight the smartest fights they could have.

Jackson was like 45-1 at one point .....he sure got his arse kicked a lot.....I only recall GMan and my man Mikey M doing that before Jackson was 37-38 and Quincey did him

[elmersalsa]

I can't imagine getting knocked out by Julian Jackson. Terry Norris didn't want no more of that. It was a vicious blow that Norris dropped like a tree. It was a delayed drop to the canvas.

That Jackson can really hit. I think he's the most devastating puncher in my lifetime.