Destroy Your Idols.

[keithmoonhangover]

We all tend to stand up for our idols in an argument, so I thought I would change it up.
Evander Holyfield. Questionable transition to heavyweight. Barely any competition at Cruiser. Got Tyson at the right time. Only beat a motivated Bowe in the rematch. Won the title from a demoted and out of shape one hit wonder. Defended against two old men and was a glorified journeyman.

[gilgamesh]

Feels so unnatural to do this, but just for the hell of it I will.

Arturo Gatti - Made things harder on himself than they needed to be by engaging in brawls unnecessarily at times. Foolishly came into the ring with Floyd Mayweather thinking he could "outbox" him. Got blitzed in one sided fashion by Oscar De La Hoya. Is probably the best opponent that Angel Manfredy beat, and considering Manfredy's career otherwise, this reflects poorly on him.

[Nile4000]

Ray Leonard: Fought Duran in a rematch, knowing that he wasn't motivated, and being intimidated by him. Even though he was impressive against Bruce Finch, got caught, and potentially could have ruined his career. Fought Kevin Howard, who was easily handled by Marlon Starling, and was embarrassed in winning a fight he didn't have to take. Fought Marvin Hagler knowing he was faded.
Helped ruin Donald Curry's career. Also helped ruin boxing with this one fight every two years stuff.

[Kalan]

I’ve heard so many critiques of Joshua, I know them all by heart..

AJ lucked into a World Title Fight after going 15-0 because Eddie Hearn has the money to throw at potential opponents and he dazzled Charles Martin with dollars.. He lucked into a Lineal Heavyweight Title Fight after going 18-0 because Tyson Fury went haywire and relinquished the title without a fight.. Joshua was given a dream fight with a 41-year-old Klitschko for the Lineal Title.

He’s ducking slick boxing and murderous punching southpaw, Luis Ortiz.. He hasn’t fought Wilder, Povetkin, Fury, Parker, Haye, Pulev, Browne, Takam or Ruiz, but he fought the unlikely Eric Molina.. He’s muscle bound like George Foreman, Frank Bruno, and Bryant Jennings.. A slick southpaw boxer like Luis Ortiz would exhaust his big body and blow him away in the late rounds.

[Tony1244]

Ali got dropped by Cooper who would be a cruiser.
Ali got beaten up in the 9th round by Oscar Bonavena.

Foreman almost stopped by a guy who within the year couldn't beat Ossie Ocassio in 2 tries.

Joe Louis somewhat buckled by Billy Conn who was no KO artist, and almost lost a decision.

[Bodyshot3]

@keithmoonhangover...great concept mate, thumbs-up for the originality.

I might go for Nigel Benn, my favourite fighter by a mile.

Let the red mist descend and then completely take over against Eubank in their first fight; just charged-in regardless and got constantly clipped, did not pace himself and lacked the coolness to switch tactics and the professionalism to listen to his corner.

Got pot-shotted, stopped and lost his title because he simply could not keep a lid on things when he should have been controlled and smart by making Eubank (as the challenger and never the hardest presser) come to him and try and take the belt.

Same old failing as the Watson fight..did he learn nothing....a complete lack of patience, pacing, disregard for defence and streetfighting against good boxers who knew how to defend themselves against wild swinging punches and hit back with solid, telling shots.

[SteveO]

Joshua was given a dream fight with a 41-year-old Klitschko for the Lineal Title.

Sorry to disappoint you Kalan but Tyson Fury is still the lineal champion.
Although he is currently inactive, he will remain lineal champion until he is beaten or retires.
He says he wants to fight again, so we will see what happens. Of course if he doesn't get his licence back that's another story.

[Kalan]

You don't get to go without fighting or defending the Heavyweight Championship for 2 years and keep claiming you're going to fight in a few months... WHO are your fighting??? WHEN are you fighting??? WHERE are you fighting??? ... Those things are not getting answered.

The Lineal Heavyweight Title effectively changed hands when Fury made public statements: "I'm done with Boxing... I hate Boxing... I'll never fight again..."

He also kept saying that he was coming back over the last year and it's July 2017... Different day? - Different Tyson Fury... The Lineal Title changed hands.

[Covfefe]

You don't get to go without fighting or defending the Heavyweight Championship for 2 years and keep claiming you're going to fight in a few months... WHO are your fighting??? WHEN are you fighting??? WHERE are you fighting??? ... Those things are not getting answered.

The Lineal Heavyweight Title effectively changed hands when Fury made public statements: "I'm done with Boxing... I hate Boxing... I'll never fight again..."

He also kept saying that he was coming back over the last year and it's July 2017... Different day? - Different Tyson Fury... The Lineal Title changed hands.

Problem is I don't think even if Tyson lost the title out of the ring as you suggest I don't think Joshua and Klitschko are a clear enough 1 and 2 for it to become a lineal title fight. Whilst he's now beaten Klitschko prior to that fight he was as proven as Wilder.

[Kalan]

Well... If it were up to me it would have been Anthony Joshua vs Luis Ortiz.. But I don't run Boxing.. So Joshua is the real Lineal Champion -- even though IMO he should be fighting Luis Ortiz.. I'll have to defer to public sentiment on that one.. Joshua is the best though he hasn't face the best possible comp.

[Covfefe]

Well... If it were up to me it would have been Anthony Joshua vs Luis Ortiz.. But I don't run Boxing.. So Joshua is the real Lineal Champion -- even though IMO he should be fighting Luis Ortiz.. I'll have to defer to public sentiment on that one.. Joshua is the best though he hasn't face the best possible comp.

Tyson still holds it for me, or at least until Joshua fights Wilder and Ortiz, providing Tyson stays retired that is. It's way too soon to proclaim Joshua as lineal based on one fight against a former champion coming off a loss, especially with the title as split as it is. Parker is out of the conversation for me but Wilder had as a big a claim as Joshua prior to the Klitschko win which means to me he can't yet be lineal.

[Ossyrules]

Joshua isn't lineal champion yet

Fury still is

I'm a Joshua fan as well

[Scypion]

My favorite was Floyd Patterson, so I guess that all I would have to say is one person's name: Sonny Liston.

Liston was too big and strong for Floyd, but it is too bad that it takes away from all the good things he did in the ring.

I could also knock Patterson for not fighting the best opponents after winning the title, most notably amateur champion Pete Rademacher. Cus D'Amato was really to blame for this, as he was in a fight with the corrupt IBC (International Boxing Cub), and would not match Floyd with any fighters controlled by it. Patterson really should have fought Eddie Machen and/or Zora Folley.

[Kalan]

You don't get to go without fighting or defending the Heavyweight Championship for 2 years and keep claiming you're going to fight in a few months... WHO are your fighting??? WHEN are you fighting??? WHERE are you fighting??? ... Those things are not getting answered.

The Lineal Heavyweight Title effectively changed hands when Fury made public statements: "I'm done with Boxing... I hate Boxing... I'll never fight again..."

He also kept saying that he was coming back over the last year and it's July 2017... Different day? - Different Tyson Fury... The Lineal Title changed hands.

Problem is I don't think even if Tyson lost the title out of the ring as you suggest I don't think Joshua and Klitschko are a clear enough 1 and 2 for it to become a lineal title fight. Whilst he's now beaten Klitschko prior to that fight he was as proven as Wilder.

Well...with that kind of thinking there's NO Lineal Champion right now... The title is VACANT!!! Fury hasn't fought in so long... got so fat... and declared he was done with Boxing any number of times... and was moving to California... He changes his plans every 5 minutes... He's not a guy who can represent Boxing or the Heavyweight Division right now... He's mentally unstable... He didn't object when Joshua and Klitschko fought for his title and forfeited his right to be called Heavyweight Champion of the World... For me, Joshua has the most recognition by far.

Patterson didn't do anything more than beat 40-year-old Light Heavyweight Archie Moore for the vacant title... Moore wasn't the best possible opponent... Schmeling and Sharkey fought for the vacant title... Root and Hart fought for it... Certainly you don't always have the best 2 Heavyweights fighting for the vacant Heavyweight Championship -- but it behooves Boxing to recognize SOMEBODY as the Lineal Heavyweight Champion... At least the other Heavyweight Champions have to go after him because he has the most prestige of anyone in the division... Boxing needs a Heavyweight Champion.

Unlike Tyson, Holyfield, Lennox "I'm a Pugilist Specialist" Lewis, Fury, the dignified but shy and English challenged Klitschcko Bros, the blithering idiot and English challenged, tattooed motormouth Wilder, and the wise assed Fury, Joshua actually makes a fabulous representative of the sport with the way he dresses, talks, and represents himself.. If you have a person who everyone in the world knows is the Heavyweight Champion, and he's a great role model, it reflects very well on Boxing and can do wonders for the sport.. When you have somebody like Wilder, and all he does and brag on himself and bore the listener to death, people start channel surfing, "Enough of this freakin' idiot and Boxing in general."

[cfang]

this is hard to do but

manny pacquiao moved through the weights in a very suspicious manner, Now seems to have lost his power overnight. Marquez koed him and was robbed other times. Can't seem to handle counter punchers. Was pretty much outclassed by floyd. Can't seem to handle big straight right hands. Oscar was totally shot, Cotto had to cut weight.

[bollocks]

Jeff Fenech was a bully who eventually was found out when his pressure style didn't overwhelm his opponent. Defended his titles against opponent that were either past their prime and or had moved up in weight. KO'd by Calvin Grove of all people

[Nile4000]

Milton McCrory. Very good fighter who should've fought Donald Curry when the fight was originally proposed. Could have improved on his performance from Jones I. Never fought Marlon Starling. Should have retired after the loss to McCallum.

[SteveO]

So Joshua is the real Lineal Champion

Only in your mind Kalan - not in reality.
Plenty of past lineal heavyweight champons have gone longer than 2 years before defending the title.
Tyson Fury has not officialy announced his retirement.
I would love Joshua to become the lineal champion and maybe he will one day - but not yet.

[Kalan]

WRONG!!! ... In the minds of many Joshua IS the Lineal Heavyweight Champion because both Joshua and Fury beat Klitschko, but Fury said he's done with Boxing any number of times... That leaves Joshua who is interested in the History of Boxing and leaving a legacy after his career is over.

Fury is interested in the Pizzas that are going to be delivered in 10 minutes... That's about as far into the future this guy plans.

[SteveO]

In the minds of many Joshua IS the Lineal Heavyweight Champion.

Even IF the 'many' believed that to be true, they would indeed be wrong in their assumption.
It would be interesting to have a poll on here asking the question.
Like it or not, Tyson Fury is still the lineal heavyweight champion.
Just to be clear, I would prefer Joshua to be the lineal champion and I think that he will be someday.

Edit: There is a poll now - we'll see how it goes.

[SteveO]

Surely the point is that who the lineal champ is becomes an irrelevance when that fighter isn't interested in fighting, or has had his licence revoked.

Apparently Fury IS hoping to fight again as soon as possible.
He cannot fight at the moment because his licence is suspended (not revoked).
Fury is awaiting the outcome of the VADA investigation which has been delayed many times already.

[Kalan]

When VADA gets involved it's nothing but crap. They're corrupt as sin.

[cocka09]

Well... If it were up to me it would have been Anthony Joshua vs Luis Ortiz.. But I don't run Boxing.. So Joshua is the real Lineal Champion -- even though IMO he should be fighting Luis Ortiz.. I'll have to defer to public sentiment on that one.. Joshua is the best though he hasn't face the best possible comp.

Exactly, you don't run boxing!! Fury is the lineal champion that is a fact!

[PsychoGamerTwo]

Thread was running really good until that dumb discussion about Fury & the lineal title... anyway, Fury still holds the "lineal title" until he says, he's retired? He's still young, so what happens if he's "inactive" for 10yrs? Is he still holding it?

[SteveO]

The Lineal Heavyweight Title effectively changed hands when Fury made public statements: "I'm done with Boxing... I hate Boxing... I'll never fight again..."

Yes, he jokingly said that but corrected his statement a few hours later.
Here is the link: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/boxing/37542160