Roach: Not Sure If Pacquiao is Mad at Me - I Haven't Been Paid

[Ruthless-RKO]

trainer Freddie Roach has revealed that his star pupil for the last decade, eight division world champion Manny Pacquiao, barely spoke to him in the aftermath of the recent twelve round decision loss to Jeff Horn.

After the contest was over at the Suncorp Stadium in Brisbane, Roach claims that Pacquiao wouldn't even say two words to him or look him in the eyes. Roach also claims that he's yet to be paid for his work in the fight.

“I was trying to see where his head was at, and I could not even get him to say hi to me. I don’t know if he was upset with me or what,” Roach told Sports Illustrated.

“I really don’t know if he’s mad at me. But I can tell you this: I haven’t been paid yet. So who knows?”

In the weeks leading up to the fight, Roach had warned that if Pacquiao struggled against a fighter like Horn - it was likely time for the 38-year-old veteran to retire from the sport.

Roach wonders if Pacquiao was being silent because he was worried that his trainer would advise him to hang up the gloves.

“Maybe that’s what he thought I was there to tell him,” Roach says. “But I wouldn’t pick that moment. There were a lot of people. I wouldn’t embarrass anybody like that. He was definitely avoiding me.”

Roach explained that Pacquiao fought in a manner that he's never seen in over ten years of working with the Filipino star.

“Manny wasn’t himself. He didn’t look like the Manny Pacquiao I’ve known for a long time. It was almost over in the ninth. One more round like that and, man … he just couldn’t do it,” Roach says.

[KiwiRider]

I'm sure Freddie isn't going hungry. And he should tell Manny to hang up his gloves, he's had his retirement fights. Nothing to prove and too much to lose if he gets hurt or brain damaged. No one wants that.

[caldo2025]

Roach has been negatively talking behind Manny's back since before this fight. Saying how he'll tell Manny to hang em up and then how he can't be a senator and a boxer. Screw Roach. Now he's coming out saying how he hasn't been paid. Manny deserves better. I'd like to see Manny sign for the rematch with no one in the corner and we'll see how he does without Roach. He probably knocks him out in the 4th.

[Ricky_]

Pacquiao is a tosser.

[Enlightened-One]

Roach has been negatively talking behind Manny's back since before this fight. Saying how he'll tell Manny to hang em up and then how he can't be a senator and a boxer. Screw Roach. Now he's coming out saying how he hasn't been paid. Manny deserves better. I'd like to see Manny sign for the rematch with no one in the corner and we'll see how he does without Roach. He probably knocks him out in the 4th.

The concern I have relates to Manny’s full-time duties outside of the ring, such as acting, singing, his TV work, playing basketball, as well as being a senator.

If Freddie Roach believes that Pacquiao’s heart is no longer fully-dedicated to the sport, coupled with the fact that he’s going to be 39 years old soon, as well as not training as regularly as he used to… then how can the Filipino possibly maintain his performance levels inside the ring?

For sure, Manny possibly underestimated Jeff Horn and I suspect that he’ll be able to raise his game in the rematch and avenge his controversial defeat, but it’s abundantly clear that the Filipino is very far removed from his 2008/9 welterweight prime.

Therefore, Freddie Roach is well within his rights to bemoan about the fact that he hasn’t been paid and there is nothing wrong with stating the obvious, which relates to Manny being at the stage of his career where he should consider retirement.

The Filipino legend has been placed on a pedestal for many fight fans, where he can seemingly do no wrong for a lot of people, but refusing to pay his trainer for the work he’s performed is fúckíng appalling… and perhaps Pacquiao will be shamed by the numerous recent media reports into finally compensating Roach for all his efforts.

[JeanClaude Van Damme]

Pac is a puppet who refuses to stand on his own. Why would anyone let Arum treat them like that? I'm sure Roach is tired of this nonsense.

[Enlightened-One]

Pac is a puppet who refuses to stand on his own. Why would anyone let Arum treat them like that? I'm sure Roach is tired of this nonsense.

Do you know exactly what role Bob Arum is supposed to play in Manny's career, in terms of his legal responsibilities/duties as his promoter?

If not, then you should probably refrain from expressing an opinion on the matter.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Pac is a puppet who refuses to stand on his own. Why would anyone let Arum treat them like that? I'm sure Roach is tired of this nonsense.

Arum has lent Manny money many times going into fights. He's treated him very well. If Pac had to borrow again and doesn't pay Freddie that has nothing to do with Arum.

[Badhusker]

Pac is a puppet who refuses to stand on his own. Why would anyone let Arum treat them like that? I'm sure Roach is tired of this nonsense.

Do you know exactly what role Bob Arum is supposed to play in Manny's career, in terms of his legal responsibilities/duties as his promoter?

If not, then you should probably refrain from expressing an opinion on the matter.

STFU man. You are one to be talking. You apparently have inside information on how Roach gets paid? You must if you are advocating publicly shaming Manny into paying him. Does Pac write a check? Cash? You know nothing about his legal responsibilities/duties to his trainer either. Don't act like a fornicating know it all. Everyone has a right to an opinion.

[JeanClaude Van Damme]

Pac is a puppet who refuses to stand on his own. Why would anyone let Arum treat them like that? I'm sure Roach is tired of this nonsense.

Do you know exactly what role Bob Arum is supposed to play in Manny's career, in terms of his legal responsibilities/duties as his promoter?

If not, then you should probably refrain from expressing an opinion on the matter.

Hey pays off judges to torpedo Manny's career so he can exert further control over it.

[JeanClaude Van Damme]

Pac is a puppet who refuses to stand on his own. Why would anyone let Arum treat them like that? I'm sure Roach is tired of this nonsense.

Arum has lent Manny money many times going into fights. He's treated him very well. If Pac had to borrow again and doesn't pay Freddie that has nothing to do with Arum.

Gee whiz, pops, I got a discount coupon at the company store!

[Enlightened-One]

Pac is a puppet who refuses to stand on his own. Why would anyone let Arum treat them like that? I'm sure Roach is tired of this nonsense.

Do you know exactly what role Bob Arum is supposed to play in Manny's career, in terms of his legal responsibilities/duties as his promoter?

If not, then you should probably refrain from expressing an opinion on the matter.

STFU man. You are one to be talking. You apparently have inside information on how Roach gets paid? You must if you are advocating publicly shaming Manny into paying him. Does Pac write a check? Cash? You know nothing about his legal responsibilities/duties to his trainer either. Don't act like a effing know it all. Everyone has a right to an opinion.

If you knew the actual role a promoter plays in a boxers career, you would support me, rather than criticising me.

There are absolutely no circumstances where it’s acceptable to express unfair derogatory opinions without possessing any understanding whatsoever of the subject matter being criticised.

And to be honest, I didn’t say anything unreasonably harsh or condescending, especially considering this "JeanClaude Van Damme" fellow actually posted to a thread whereby I provided multiple explanations of the role of a promoter (in the context of Bob Arum and Manny Pacquiao's relationship).

[JeanClaude Van Damme]

Do you know exactly what role Bob Arum is supposed to play in Manny's career, in terms of his legal responsibilities/duties as his promoter?

If not, then you should probably refrain from expressing an opinion on the matter.

STFU man. You are one to be talking. You apparently have inside information on how Roach gets paid? You must if you are advocating publicly shaming Manny into paying him. Does Pac write a check? Cash? You know nothing about his legal responsibilities/duties to his trainer either. Don't act like a effing know it all. Everyone has a right to an opinion.

If you knew the actual role a promoter plays in a boxers career, you would support me, rather than criticising me.

There are absolutely no circumstances where it’s acceptable to express unfair derogatory opinions without possessing any understanding whatsoever of the subject matter being criticised.

And to be honest, I didn’t say anything unreasonably harsh or condescending.

[Kalan]

Roach has been negatively talking behind Manny's back since before this fight. Saying how he'll tell Manny to hang em up and then how he can't be a senator and a boxer. Screw Roach. Now he's coming out saying how he hasn't been paid. Manny deserves better. I'd like to see Manny sign for the rematch with no one in the corner and we'll see how he does without Roach. He probably knocks him out in the 4th.

I agree...Roach is an A-hole.. But it's obvious that Pacquiao has been avoiding tough fights for years.. Finally one of his soft cherry-picks beat him.

Pacquiao has been avoiding big punchers since the last Marquez fight in 2012, fighting: Rios, Algieri, Vargas, Bradley, Floyd, Horn... It's real funny to me that Floyd, Pacquiao, Khan, Bradley, and Maidana have been able to avoid Thruman, Brook, Porter, Spence, Crawford, Garcia, or anyone who's a dangerous puncher who can box a little bit for years and years.. Yet Lomachenko gets ripped when he calls out Mikey Garcia.. Or Luis Ortiz gets attacked by fans because he's wants to fight Wilder or Joshua for the last several years.

"You have to fight somebody!!!" ... "Fine, I'll fight anybody. Line them up." ... "You have to fight somebody!!!"

[Enlightened-One]

It's real funny to me that Floyd, Pacquiao, Khan, Bradley, and Maidana have been able to avoid Thruman, Brook, Porter, Spence, Crawford, Garcia, or anyone who's a dangerous puncher who can box a little bit for years and years..

You cannot possibly prove that Floyd Mayweather Jr. “ducked” the likes of Thurman, Brook, Spence Jr., Crawford or Danny Garcia for “years and years.”

Provide evidence that Money May actually “ducked” each of these men, because I think you’ll find it’s fúckíng impossible!

In fact, why don't you prove that Floyd, Pacquiao, Khan, Bradley, and Maidana "ducked" the men that you mention?

[jockpunk]

Roach has been negatively talking behind Manny's back since before this fight. Saying how he'll tell Manny to hang em up and then how he can't be a senator and a boxer. Screw Roach. Now he's coming out saying how he hasn't been paid. Manny deserves better. I'd like to see Manny sign for the rematch with no one in the corner and we'll see how he does without Roach. He probably knocks him out in the 4th.

I agree...Roach is an A-hole.. But it's obvious that Pacquiao has been avoiding tough fights for years.. Finally one of his soft cherry-picks beat him.

Pacquiao has been avoiding big punchers since the last Marquez fight in 2012, fighting: Rios, Algieri, Vargas, Bradley, Floyd, Horn... It's real funny to me that Floyd, Pacquiao, Khan, Bradley, and Maidana have been able to avoid Thruman, Brook, Porter, Spence, Crawford, Garcia, or anyone who's a dangerous puncher who can box a little bit for years and years.. Yet Lomachenko gets ripped when he calls out Mikey Garcia.. Or Luis Ortiz gets attacked by fans because he's wants to fight Wilder or Joshua for the last several years.

"You have to fight somebody!!!" ... "Fine, I'll fight anybody. Line them up." ... "You have to fight somebody!!!"

It takes a special kind of dumb to say a guy has been avoiding tough fights for years when one of his recent fights was against the best fighter of this era, not to mention another top 10 p4p guy in Bradley.

I also have never seen anyone rip lomachenko for wanting to fight mikey Garcia. I think that is a fight that virtually every person on this board would like to see.

[Bricks]

A little greedy and selfish of roach to be whining in public. Hes made a packet off many. To suggest he isn't going to get paid . Its all a bit desperate by roach

[Kalan]

Roach has been negatively talking behind Manny's back since before this fight. Saying how he'll tell Manny to hang em up and then how he can't be a senator and a boxer. Screw Roach. Now he's coming out saying how he hasn't been paid. Manny deserves better. I'd like to see Manny sign for the rematch with no one in the corner and we'll see how he does without Roach. He probably knocks him out in the 4th.

I agree...Roach is an A-hole.. But it's obvious that Pacquiao has been avoiding tough fights for years.. Finally one of his soft cherry-picks beat him.

Pacquiao has been avoiding big punchers since the last Marquez fight in 2012, fighting: Rios, Algieri, Vargas, Bradley, Floyd, Horn... It's real funny to me that Floyd, Pacquiao, Khan, Bradley, and Maidana have been able to avoid Thruman, Brook, Porter, Spence, Crawford, Garcia, or anyone who's a dangerous puncher who can box a little bit for years and years.. Yet Lomachenko gets ripped when he calls out Mikey Garcia.. Or Luis Ortiz gets attacked by fans because he's wants to fight Wilder or Joshua for the last several years.

"You have to fight somebody!!!" ... "Fine, I'll fight anybody. Line them up." ... "You have to fight somebody!!!"

It takes a special kind of dumb to say a guy has been avoiding tough fights for years when one of his recent fights was against the best fighter of this era, not to mention another top 10 p4p guy in Bradley.

I also have never seen anyone rip lomachenko for wanting to fight mikey Garcia. I think that is a fight that virtually every person on this board would like to see.

So Pacquiao makes over a 100 million dollars for fighting a 38-year-old Floyd Mayweather and he's NOT going to take the fight win or lose??? You're a rank simpleton.. Is Floyd a big puncher??? HELL NO!!! ... Name ONE dangerous puncher Pacquiao has fought since 2012.. The names of fighters like Spence, Thurman, Crawford, Porter, even Garcia never cross his lips -- while Rios, Bradley, Algieri, Horn, Vargas etc. are the weak hitters he goes after.

And Lomachenko gets plenty of criticism for not fighting anyone when nobody will fight him... Gary Russell and Luis Ortiz as well.

[Mexi-Box]

So Pacquiao makes over a 100 million dollars for fighting a 38-year-old Floyd Mayweather and he's NOT going to take the fight win or lose??? You're a rank simpleton.. Is Floyd a big puncher??? HELL NO!!! ... Name ONE dangerous puncher Pacquiao has fought since 2012.. The names of fighters like Spence, Thurman, Crawford, Porter, even Garcia never cross his lips -- while Rios, Bradley, Algieri, Horn, Vargas etc. are the weak hitters he goes after.

And Lomachenko gets plenty of criticism for not fighting anyone when nobody will fight him... Gary Russell and Luis Ortiz as well.[/quote]
Runtime, Porter, and Garcia (147) are not big punchers. I wouldn't call Crawford a big puncher either, but he hasn't moved up yet.

[caldo2025]

Roach has been negatively talking behind Manny's back since before this fight. Saying how he'll tell Manny to hang em up and then how he can't be a senator and a boxer. Screw Roach. Now he's coming out saying how he hasn't been paid. Manny deserves better. I'd like to see Manny sign for the rematch with no one in the corner and we'll see how he does without Roach. He probably knocks him out in the 4th.

The concern I have relates to Manny’s full-time duties outside of the ring, such as acting, singing, his TV work, playing basketball, as well as being a senator.

If Freddie Roach believes that Pacquiao’s heart is no longer fully-dedicated to the sport, coupled with the fact that he’s going to be 39 years old soon, as well as not training as regularly as he used to… then how can the Filipino possibly maintain his performance levels inside the ring?

For sure, Manny possibly underestimated Jeff Horn and I suspect that he’ll be able to raise his game in the rematch and avenge his controversial defeat, but it’s abundantly clear that the Filipino is very far removed from his 2008/9 welterweight prime.

Therefore, Freddie Roach is well within his rights to bemoan about the fact that he hasn’t been paid and there is nothing wrong with stating the obvious, which relates to Manny being at the stage of his career where he should consider retirement.

The Filipino legend has been placed on a pedestal for many fight fans, where he can seemingly do no wrong for a lot of people, but refusing to pay his trainer for the work he’s performed is fúckíng appalling… and perhaps Pacquiao will be shamed by the numerous recent media reports into finally compensating Roach for all his efforts.

I think that the only thing that Teddy Atlas got correct during his pathetic performance was the fact that Pacman now has too much to lose in these kinds of fights now. He's right. The old Pacman would have loved to be in a fight like that with Horn. But at almost 40 years old, who really wants that? My thinking is that Manny just wanted to knock someone out in front of the biggest crowd possible and he guessed wrong with this one. He was pissed about it and knew that Roach would be yapping about retirement. Roach should have shut his mouth and gone and supported his fighter in the loss. Instead, he gave tasty soundbites against his fighter and called his pay into question. Joke.

[Enlightened-One]

He was pissed about it and knew that Roach would be yapping about retirement. Roach should have shut his mouth and gone and supported his fighter in the loss. Instead, he gave tasty soundbites against his fighter and called his pay into question. Joke.

I can’t dispute most of your opinion, but I really do feel that a fighter is obliged to pay his trainer for the work that he’s performed.

I have no idea of your personal financial situation, but if my employer reneged on his duties to compensate me for the work that I’ve performed, then I’d be fúckéd óff, especially if I’ve competently performed my duties!

I’d only shut my fúckíng mouth until I’ve spoken to my employer and been paid for my work! So Freddie Roach has only acted like any normal human being would do in his situation, especially considering Manny won’t even pick-up the phone to explain why he isn’t being paid.

In this regard, the Filipino boxing legend is acting like a total utter complete fúckíng twát!

And when a veteran fighter approaching forty years of age (he’ll be 39 soon) loses to a guy he would have almost certainly dominated a few years prior, then considering retirement is not such a surprising thing to do, which is the reason why I don’t think that there’s anything wrong with Roach’s comments, because he’s merely stating the obvious.

[Ruthless-RKO]

Pacman has replied to this accusation by Roach

[caldo2025]

He was pissed about it and knew that Roach would be yapping about retirement. Roach should have shut his mouth and gone and supported his fighter in the loss. Instead, he gave tasty soundbites against his fighter and called his pay into question. Joke.

I can’t dispute most of your opinion, but I really do feel that a fighter is obliged to pay his trainer for the work that he’s performed.

I have no idea of your personal financial situation, but if my employer reneged on his duties to compensate me for the work that I’ve performed, then I’d be fúckéd óff, especially if I’ve competently performed my duties!

I’d only shut my fúckíng mouth until I’ve spoken to my employer and been paid for my work! So Freddie Roach has only acted like any normal human being would do in his situation, especially considering Manny won’t even pick-up the phone to explain why he isn’t being paid.

In this regard, the Filipino boxing legend is acting like a total utter complete fúckíng twát!

And when a veteran fighter approaching forty years of age (he’ll be 39 soon) loses to a guy he would have almost certainly dominated a few years prior, then considering retirement is not such a surprising thing to do, which is the reason why I don’t think that there’s anything wrong with Roach’s comments, because he’s merely stating the obvious.

Check out the post where Manny is quoted as saying that Arum is the one that pays Roach's salary for the fight. This makes Roach's comment even more ridiculous than I already thought that it was.

To go one step further with your analogy...what if after your performance at your job resulted in yet another horrible decision in which most people felt that you won but the judges stole it from you. Would you be happy and go lucky to go give these "ah shucks" interviews. Manny just got a head full of stitches in a nasty rumble in which no one, not even his coach or promoter, had his back afterwards.

If i were Manny, i'd sign up for the rematch and not put a person in the corner with me. I'd go out there and knock Horn out in his backyard and then call it quits. Screw everyone is the view i would have. I'm sure Manny is not happy about the way all of these people are talking about him in the past tense and behind his back. Boxing is one cruel place to retire from. I bet he thought that after a career like his, Manny would have more respect and fanfare during his last few fights. He's realizing that not even he is immune to the cruel way the entourage of boxing views the elder statesmen of the sport. What have you done for me lately is the nature of boxing.

[Enlightened-One]

Check out the post where Manny is quoted as saying that Arum is the one that pays Roach's salary for the fight. This makes Roach's comment even more ridiculous than I already thought that it was.

Under normal circumstances, there isn’t a business or contractual relationship between a promoter and a fighter’s trainer.

The promoter usually pays the boxers agreed upon purses regardless of winning or losing.

When the boxer receives his purse money, he must then give his manager, trainer, cutmen and other people their share.

There is no reason (unless there was prior agreement) for a wealthy man like Pacquiao to not compensate Freddie Roach immediately for the work that he’s performed.

It is abundantly clear that Freddie Roach was expecting to receive his money from Manny Pacquaio, regardless as to whether the Filipino has been paid or not, since his contractual relationship is with his fighter, not Bob Arum.

I personally doubt that Bob Arum is legally responsible for compensating Freddie Roach for all of his efforts. Manny is almost certainly contractually liable for this duty.

I only read Pacquiao’s response to Roach’s claims after I submitted my previous response, but there are two facts that cannot be refuted, which are: Manny hasn’t spoken to his trainer and nor has he paid him either.

To go one step further with your analogy...what if after your performance at your job resulted in yet another horrible decision in which most people felt that you won but the judges stole it from you. Would you be happy and go lucky to go give these "ah shucks" interviews. Manny just got a head full of stitches in a nasty rumble in which no one, not even his coach or promoter, had his back afterwards.

There is no evidence to suggest that Freddie Roach is personally responsible for Pacquiao’s underwhelming performance against Jeff Horn. However, there is a lot of compelling evidence that strongly suggests that Manny’s commitment to boxing is waning.

So to answer your question, Freddie Roach expects his fighter to pay him and to also speak to him… and this is not an unreasonable request for a trainer to make.

Roach’s only contractual responsibility is to train his fighter.

There won’t be a gagging order between Manny and Freddie that compels the legendary trainer to refrain from articulating his honest opinion after the bout has taken place, which includes a contractual stipulation that allows the Filipino to withhold any payments to Roach if he breaches this condition.

[Badhusker]

Check out the post where Manny is quoted as saying that Arum is the one that pays Roach's salary for the fight. This makes Roach's comment even more ridiculous than I already thought that it was.

Under normal circumstances, there isn’t a business or contractual relationship between a promoter and a fighter’s trainer.

The promoter usually pays the boxers agreed upon purses regardless of winning or losing.

When the boxer receives his purse money, he must then give his manager, trainer, cutmen and other people their share.

There is no reason (unless there was prior agreement) for a wealthy man like Pacquiao to not compensate Freddie Roach immediately for the work that he’s performed.

It is abundantly clear that Freddie Roach was expecting to receive his money from Manny Pacquaio, regardless as to whether the Filipino has been paid or not, since his contractual relationship is with his fighter, not Bob Arum.

I personally doubt that Bob Arum is legally responsible for compensating Freddie Roach for all of his efforts. Manny is almost certainly contractually liable for this duty.

I only read Pacquiao’s response to Roach’s claims after I submitted my previous response, but there are two facts that cannot be refuted, which are: Manny hasn’t spoken to his trainer and nor has he paid him either.

To go one step further with your analogy...what if after your performance at your job resulted in yet another horrible decision in which most people felt that you won but the judges stole it from you. Would you be happy and go lucky to go give these "ah shucks" interviews. Manny just got a head full of stitches in a nasty rumble in which no one, not even his coach or promoter, had his back afterwards.

There is no evidence to suggest that Freddie Roach is personally responsible for Pacquiao’s underwhelming performance against Jeff Horn. However, there is a lot of compelling evidence that strongly suggests that Manny’s commitment to boxing is waning.

So to answer your question, Freddie Roach expects his fighter to pay him and to also speak to him… and this is not an unreasonable request for a trainer to make.

Roach’s only contractual responsibility is to train his fighter.

There won’t be a gagging order between Manny and Freddie that compels the legendary trainer to refrain from articulating his honest opinion after the bout has taken place, which includes a contractual stipulation that allows the Filipino to withhold any payments to Roach if he breaches this condition.

Posted on July 12, 2017
Koncz expresses shock over Roach’s claim

By Nick Giongco

Mike Koncz, the Canadian adviser of Manny Pacquiao, yesterday called the attention of Hall of Fame trainer Freddie Roach on the issue of the alleged non-payment of his professional fee following the Jeff Horn fight last week in Brisbane, Australia. “For the last five years, we have instructed our promoter to deduct said payment from our guaranteed purse and this is how our corner has been paid,” said Koncz yesterday after an article on Sports Illustrated reported that Roach has yet to collect his payment.

“If Freddie had some concern, he should have brought it up with Manny and not in the media,” said Koncz, noting that the fee of conditioning coach Justin Fortune and cutman Miguel Diaz also get theirs from the promoter.

Koncz said Pacquiao has a payment scheme that sees to it that Roach and the others receive theirs from the promoter.

“That’s how we pay them the last five years,” he said.