I'd like to have been a fly on the wall ...

[candyslim]

I’d really love to know what was said to Bermane Stiverne.

I don’t mean what was said to get him to take step-aside money which makes perfect sense – get paid now, still get your title shot later.

What I mean is to agree to fight Dominic Breazeale ??? Stiverne has fought once in getting on for three years. He fought Derric Rossy who it’s fair to say is not, and never was, a force in the division. Stiverne had to climb off the floor to get the decision, and rumour has it that it wasn’t that convincing a win – all in all not ideal preparation for a Breazeale fight.

While I’m inclined to think Stiverne’s is not the sharpest mind in North America, it cannot have escaped his notice that after the Breazeale fight it is by no means certain that he will retain his mandatory status. Breazeale is no pushover for anyone, never mind Stiverne.

Did the WBC pressure him to fight DB or be stripped of his mandatory for missing that drug test, I wonder. I’m not surprised by his about-face over taking the money but agreeing a Breazeale fight – that must have involved some powerful arm-twisting I reckon.

Anyone care to speculate?

[KiwiRider]

It's great news. Breazeale is going to put him to bed and out of the mix.
He shouldn't even hold the #1 contender so it's fair for him to earn it. Which he won't

[candyslim]

Agreed but why? It's like a turkey signing up for Christmas.

[RScarf1]

I would assume that the WBC said to Stiverne that we don't want to remove you from title contention, but because you missed a drug test, you are going to have to win a title eliminator in order to maintain your WBC ranking. Therefore, Stiverne would have to beat Breazeale.

[marvelous marv]

Fighters just want to fight, it may be hard to understand that mentality from the sidelines. I think Stiverne will beat Breazeale anyways and get two big paydays for one nights work.

[candyslim]

Some fighters do Marv but I think if Stiverne were one of them he'd have found a few more opportunities to do so than he has. I favour Breazeale in this fight but one thing I'm sure we can agree on is that Stiverne v Breazeale is a way more attractive proposition than Stiverne v Wilder.

@RScarf1 I think that has to be the answer, Stiverne would be nuts to risk his mandatory against Breazeale if he wasn't obliged to.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

If he was forced into a fight they wouldn't have to pay him off. It's a caveat, nice payday plus the payoff.

[candyslim]

So are you saying he wasn't forced, he chose to fight Breazeale or do you mean by caveat that he was told. "Look, we could strip you but if you play along and fight Breazeale in defense of your mandatory, then not only do you not get stripped, you also get the step-aside payment"?

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I mean he wants to fight breazeale and he will get a nice check for it. If it happens at all. Don't you see how nonsensical it is for a fighter to get paid step aside money and forced to reinforce his mandatory? Even in the crazy world of boxing that would be a new level of idiocy.

[candyslim]

I thought the whole thing about Stiverne is he's obsessed with fighting Wilder. He won't make a mint against Wilder but it's sure to be a lot less against Breazeale. You can't even bring the step-aside payment into the picture because he'd get that whether he fights Breazeale or say Kyataro Fujimoto or Manuel Charr or some other guy high ranked high by at least one of the governing bodies despite his lack of ability - or even if he fights no one at all.

As it is if he loses against Breazeale which is highly likely IMO he can kiss goodbye to his title-shot. He must know that.

I do agree though that scenario would be nonsensical but I wouldn't discount it as a possibility for that reason.

[RScarf1]

Stiverne is not entitled to step aside money. He jeopardized his mandatory challenger status by missing the drug test. As far as I'm concerned, the WBC is doing him a favor by letting him fight in a title eliminator.

[BitPlayer]

Where's this idea that Breazeale is some kind of beast come from?

[ValMar]

Where's this idea that Breazeale is some kind of beast come from?

This !!

[tiny_acres]

Where's this idea that Breazeale is some kind of beast come from?

This !!

Thank you I've been trying to figure it out too.
Jed ok but far from upper echelon.

[gilgamesh]

I'd Breazeale in the fight over Stiverne ever so slightly. Neither one of them can fight worth a damn, but Breazeale has a lot of heart, and that might be enough to beat Stiverne who has never struck me as a particularly courageous or gutsy fighter.

Stiverne seems to be one of those guys that comes into the ring hoping like hell that his right hand will knock you out, and doesn't have a game plan beyond that.

[Tanzio]

I have been trying to figure out why, with the infinite options to choose from, someone would want to be a fly on the wall for this conversation.

Stiverne v Brazeale makes sense.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I thought the whole thing about Stiverne is he's obsessed with fighting Wilder. He won't make a mint against Wilder but it's sure to be a lot less against Breazeale. You can't even bring the step-aside payment into the picture because he'd get that whether he fights Breazeale or say Kyataro Fujimoto or Manuel Charr or some other guy high ranked high by at least one of the governing bodies despite his lack of ability - or even if he fights no one at all.

As it is if he loses against Breazeale which is highly likely IMO he can kiss goodbye to his title-shot. He must know that.

I do agree though that scenario would be nonsensical but I wouldn't discount it as a possibility for that reason.

He'll make more fighting breazeale than he would wilder when you factor in the incentives. You don't have to discount it but there is no way in hell that's what's happening.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

You also seem so convinced that stiverne has no ambition. Don king fighters make pbc fighters look active. Then again, I know how stubborn you get with inane conspiracies and I don't want to upset you. So carry on with your fascination of sitting in a room watching guys crunch numbers.

[candyslim]

Firstly I'm not suggesting that Breazeale is a beast although I must confess I hold him in high regard because he's got bags of heart which is a quality I find very endearing in a fighter. Although I'm prepared to accept I probably rate him higher than most on here, his last fight was a war in which he had to climb off the floor to win against a very well respected prospect in Izuagbe Ogonoh who was hoping to, and expected to, use him as a stepping stone. I thought it was a very exciting match-up which I thought could go either way. That's pretty much how the fight went it was a cracker but now of course it's Izu who ???

Of couse Bermane climbed off the floor to win his last fight too but then I don't think anyone was looking at Derric Rossy thinking 'get past Stiverne and you could be on your way to the big-time'.

I hear you Saad but don't forget that any step-aside money offered or paid to Stiverne would be agreed between Haymon, Stiverne, King, Dubin and the other guy whose name escapes me ... James something-or-othe ... Prince is it? The WBC have no involvement in that and Wilder/ Haymon (theoretically) have no input in how the WBC decide to handle the question of Stiverne's missed drug-test and his status as mandatory challenger, at least they shouln't have any input. Given Haymon's status and influence I would concede it does seem extremely unlikely that he would be completely unaware of how the WBC were planning to act/not act.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

The WBC has to allow it. So yeah, they're involved.

[candyslim]

Yes they have to sanction the payment of step-aside money - there wouldn't be any point paying Stiverne if the WBC weren't going to allow Wilder to fight anyone else, but the point I was trying to make is that it isn't the WBC doing any paying so they probably wouldn't see the payment by Haymon to step-aside and their imposing conditions on Stiverne in order for him to retain his mandatory status as conflicting and possibly not even connected.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

No

[candyslim]

Well it's just a thread title Tanz let's not confuse it with the culmination of my life's ambition. I do find it curious for the very reason that you don't: You say Breazeale v Stiverne makes sense. I say sure it does. Makes sense for the fans - instead of the prospect of a title re-match no one wants to see, we've potentially swapped it for a good title defence and an intriguing eliminator instead.

It makes sense for the WBC for much the same reasons, and it makes sense for Breazeale - who wouldn't want the opportunity to become the WBC mandatory? In case you think I'm disrespecting Stiverne, I would be questioning why Breazeale would be risking his mandatory in a genuine pick 'em fight if the boot were on the other foot. In these days of fighters reluctant to risk their status or their record by fighting similar quality opposition to themselves, this stands out as a refreshingly courageous, maybe not very smart move by Stiverne. He's got the step-aside payment in the bag and a guaranteed shot at Wilder, which he was adamant he wanted more than money, without needing to get all heroic. Or has he?

I can't escape the feeling there's more to this than meets the eye and that's what has got me intrigued.

[Tanzio]

Well it's just a thread title Tanz let's not confuse it with the culmination of my life's ambition. I do find it curious for the very reason that you don't: You say Breazeale v Stiverne makes sense. I say sure it does. Makes sense for the fans - instead of the prospect of a title re-match no one wants to see, we've potentially swapped it for a good title defence and an intriguing eliminator instead.

It makes sense for the WBC for much the same reasons, and it makes sense for Breazeale - who wouldn't want the opportunity to become the WBC mandatory? In case you think I'm disrespecting Stiverne, I would be questioning why Breazeale would be risking his mandatory in a genuine pick 'em fight if the boot were on the other foot. In these days of fighters reluctant to risk their status or their record by fighting similar quality opposition to themselves, this stands out as a refreshingly courageous, maybe not very smart move by Stiverne. He's got the step-aside payment in the bag and a guaranteed shot at Wilder, which he was adamant he wanted more than money, without needing to get all heroic. Or has he?

I can't escape the feeling there's more to this than meets the eye and that's what has got me intrigued.

Thanks for clarifying, sweetskinny. I am certain that you are correct that there is more to this than we are being made aware of. Unlike you, I am only interested in the fact that we are getting the correct fights (it appears). The how we got there is not especially important to me.

[candyslim]

You also seem so convinced that stiverne has no ambition. Don king fighters make pbc fighters look active. Then again, I know how stubborn you get with inane conspiracies and I don't want to upset you. So carry on with your fascination of sitting in a room watching guys crunch numbers.

I was convinced he had the ambition to 'put the record straight against Wilder'. I really struggle to equate a more general ambition with one fight in nearly three years, sorry I'm not buying. Am I stubborn? Yes I can be, but my mind is not closed to new information or alternative viewpoints as you know better than most. I have recently done a full 180, as a result of the step-aside money. I was absolutely convinced Wilder wanted no part of Ortiz and that the discussions were a smokescreen intended to make Wilder look like the injured party when the fight failed to come off. Of course there still hasn't been any announcement, but if step-aside money has been, or will be paid, then it begins to look like I was wrong about this.

See that? Stubborn conspiracy theorist in "looks like I was wrong shocker". For someone who doesn't want to upset me, I've only been back for a couple of weeks but you've wasted no time in delivering snarky replies to a few of my posts even if you haven't read them - they been bizarre, too long, one two others I forget and now I'm "fascinated by sitting in a room watching guys crunch numbers". I'm not sure I even understand that one unless that's a reference to my interest in ratings and statistics? C'mon Saad you're not telling me you've no interest in sports statistics ... that's ... that's ... un-American !

Mate you can keep it up as long as you like but I can't help wondering what gives. It reminds me of an old girlfriend but she had good reasons for the hostility that I'm bloody certain aren't shared by you. Did someone run over your dog or something because it wasn't me it was that other guy.