Judges

[CaptainSpacerod]

Boxing's subjective, people still argue to this day about Hagler Leonard and part of what makes boxing so fascinating is that there are many ways to win a fight. Last night i had GGG by 2 but with some rounds close I can conceive of a situation where the fight was scored a draw or a narrow Canelo win. What is inconceivable is the Byrd scorecard and apparently she has form for scoring badly.

With this in mind why is there not a published table of judges' scorecards so that everyone - the boxers, the fans, the sanctioning bodies etc - can see whether a particular judge has scored a fight differently to everyone else ? Why isn't there a body of respected journalists who are ringside at every fight who score the fight and publish their scores so that we get a bigger sample size from which we can see whether a particular judge deviates from the norm often enough to arouse suspicion particularly if these deviations occur when scoring fights involving boxers under the same promotional banner.

I have a vague recollection that a group of journalists set up a real boxing rankings type website a few years ago which aimed to provide accurate rankings unsullied by politics. Why not do the same for scorecards.

[tobyh5]

Boxing's subjective, people still argue to this day about Hagler Leonard and part of what makes boxing so fascinating is that there are many ways to win a fight. Last night i had GGG by 2 but with some rounds close I can conceive of a situation where the fight was scored a draw or a narrow Canelo win. What is inconceivable is the Byrd scorecard and apparently she has form for scoring badly.

With this in mind why is there not a published table of judges' scorecards so that everyone - the boxers, the fans, the sanctioning bodies etc - can see whether a particular judge has scored a fight differently to everyone else ? Why isn't there a body of respected journalists who are ringside at every fight who score the fight and publish their scores so that we get a bigger sample size from which we can see whether a particular judge deviates from the norm often enough to arouse suspicion particularly if these deviations occur when scoring fights involving boxers under the same promotional banner.

I have a vague recollection that a group of journalists set up a real boxing rankings type website a few years ago which aimed to provide accurate rankings unsullied by politics. Why not do the same for scorecards.

Still ripe for corruption, debatably more so.

Ever heard of newspaper decisions? Some states in the US had them in the 1910's and 20's as the corruption was so bad. If a fight went the distance it was a no decision and the press then settled on a consensus newspaper decision. Would be a nightmare, all manner of bias, favouritisms, not wanting to upset a manager or promoter who gives you access to his fighters, old friendships can sway that without even delving into questioning competence of people on press row or basic corruption

[davie]

Refs and judges must be subject to some kind off assessment and scrutiny.

Bird should be relegated after this

Hopefully this is like Canelo vs Floyd for C J Ross and it's her last card



ps is it a coincidence that some of the worst card I ever seen were from female judges?

[CaptainSpacerod]

Still ripe for corruption, debatably more so.

Ever heard of newspaper decisions? Some states in the US had them in the 1910's and 20's as the corruption was so bad. If a fight went the distance it was a no decision and the press then settled on a consensus newspaper decision. Would be a nightmare, all manner of bias, favouritisms, not wanting to upset a manager or promoter who gives you access to his fighters, old friendships can sway that without even delving into questioning competence of people on press row or basic corruption

I take your point but the greater the amount of people involved in publicly scoring cards albeit unofficially the smaller the effect corruption would have.

And anyway I can see why financially a promoter would have much to gain from bribing a judge thereby actually altering the result of a fight whereas bribing someone who although scoring the fight publicly had no effect on the result would bring little or no financial benefit

[davie]

Still ripe for corruption, debatably more so.

Ever heard of newspaper decisions? Some states in the US had them in the 1910's and 20's as the corruption was so bad. If a fight went the distance it was a no decision and the press then settled on a consensus newspaper decision. Would be a nightmare, all manner of bias, favouritisms, not wanting to upset a manager or promoter who gives you access to his fighters, old friendships can sway that without even delving into questioning competence of people on press row or basic corruption

I take your point but the greater the amount of people involved in publicly scoring cards albeit unofficially the smaller the effect corruption would have.

And anyway I can see why financially a promoter would have much to gain from bribing a judge thereby actually altering the result of a fight whereas bribing someone who although scoring the fight publicly had no effect on the result would bring little or no financial benefit

I know where you are coming from, something needs to be done.
But the public are unqualified and any result would be heavily influenced by bias and popularity

More needs to be done to hold judges to account when shit like this happens. I know football officials face scrutiny from their peers and the football association.
I don't know how much this happens in boxing but there must be some kind of system in place for these people to go up and down the ranks of officialdom.
There must be some kind of corruption in said system, that these kind of buffoons are allowed to fornicate up at the very highest level of the sport time after time

[CaptainSpacerod]

Refs and judges must be subject to some kind off assessment and scrutiny.

Bird should be relegated after this

Hopefully this is like Canelo vs Floyd for C J Ross and it's her last card



ps is it a coincidence that some of the worst card I ever seen were from female judges?

How often do women judge fights ? I don't pay much attention to judges usually but like everyone else I'm aware of the infamous CJ Ross episode. If women routinely judge bouts and they pass without incident then fair enough but if Ross and Byrd have been promoted to big time judging on the basis of positive discrimination and fvcking equality then I'm even more outraged with last night's scoring than i was last night.

[davie]

Refs and judges must be subject to some kind off assessment and scrutiny.

Bird should be relegated after this

Hopefully this is like Canelo vs Floyd for C J Ross and it's her last card



ps is it a coincidence that some of the worst card I ever seen were from female judges?

How often do women judge fights ? I don't pay much attention to judges usually but like everyone else I'm aware of the infamous CJ Ross episode. If women routinely judge bouts and they pass without incident then fair enough but if Ross and Byrd have been promoted to big time judging on the basis of positive discrimination and fvcking equality then I'm even more outraged with last night's scoring than i was last night.

I don't actually know of any other female judges
I never knew C J Ross was female until after the Canelo vs Mayweather balls up.
Not exactly an obvious ladies name, CJ

Equally, I never knew Adelaide Birds gender, before today. But it just seems odd that 2 of the very highest profile fornicate ups have came from ladies judging

[Jackson328]

Refs and judges must be subject to some kind off assessment and scrutiny.

Bird should be relegated after this

Hopefully this is like Canelo vs Floyd for C J Ross and it's her last card



ps is it a coincidence that some of the worst card I ever seen were from female judges?

Lewis vs Holyfield 1 - Eugenia Williams scored it for Holyfield

Mayweather vs Alvarez - CJ Ross called it as a draw

GGG vs Alvarez - Adalaide Byrd 118-110 Canelo

Thats just 3 off the top of my head and I'm not rounding on females as boxing judges but are they easier to be 'got at' maybe? I'd favour a return to the old days where the associated press would vote at ringside with their individual reputations at stake, may be long winded and take more time but we'd have more chance of getting the right result! For the record however I had GGG by 7 rounds to 5 the first time I saw the fight but on second viewing I got 115-114 Canelo and I seem to be in the minority in that I thought GGG won the 1st round.

[BIGDOUG58]

I posted this in the current scene page.....

To combat bad, corrupt, Biased, unprofessional, or just incompetant Judges, all we need to do is eliminate the Odd Round Score from each Judge.
This will eliminate Biased Judges,

At Ringside the Scores Tallier ( Guy who adds up the Judges Scores) will have a separate score Card and that is the ONE that gets read out at Fights End.

8 ROUND BOUT

Example; * Judge 1 Judge 2 Judge 3 Correct Scorecard
A vs. B A vs B A vs B A vs B

10 9 10 9 9 10 10 9
10 10 10 9 9 10 10 10
8 10 8 10 8 10 8 10 Judge 3 has a bias for Boxer B but because his round
9 10 9 10 10 10 9 10 scores are not corresponding with the other 2 judges
10 9 10 9 9 10 10 9 his bias has been eliminated from affecting the result
10 8 10 8 10 9 10 8
10 9 10 9 9 10 10 9
10 9 10 9 10 10 10 9

Totals 77 74 77 73 74 79 77 74.

This has demonstrated the scores by Judge 3 who has scored for Boxer B has been voided, There would Only be the one set of scores read out after the bout 77 - 74.
The scores are the majority of the round, if 2 Judges vote for Boxer A and the 3rd judge votes for Boxer B , Majority Rules.

Goodbye Corrupt Judges.

Using this System the Pacquiao Horn bout would have given Horn the win 116 - 112
after the WBO had their 5 judge review Panel the score would of changed to 114 - 113 win for Horn

Its just an Idea but would love the feedback.

[BIGDOUG58]

Sorry Guys but this has not come up the way I Typed it.
Hope you can work through it,

[Anzi]

This is not the first time an in-experienced Judge like Byrd has been picked by the home promoter, nor the last, in fact an in-experienced female Judge, for such a high profile fight, with big money involved. CJ Ross was responsible for giving a draw in the Alverez/ Mayweather fight, when Mayweather schooled Alverez and also the bad decision in favour of Bradley against Pacquiao, I remember when Eugenia Williams who had filed for bankruptcy, before she Judged the Holyfield/ Lewis Heavyweight unification and scored it to Holyfield, despite Lewis dominating the fight, she had even given the 7th round to Holyfield, a round that he was hurt badly and almost knocked out, but on this occasion they made her testify in front of a grand jury and replayed the 7th round, she squirmed has she had to explain why she scored that round to Holyfield, even claiming her view was obstructed.

Alverez had everything in his favour for this fight, the larger purse, no restriction on weight gain, between weigh-in and fight, the fight was in Vegas, where he has fought 9 times before, Golokin had never fought in Vegas before, (Alverez being the cash cow) and the date was on Mexican independance day. I don't really think people expected Golokin to get a decision, even if he won the rounds, he would have had to drop Alverez or stop him, it was set up for Alverez to win, as long as he stayed on his feet, though on this occasion he got a lucky draw, mainly down to Byrd.

[davie]

This is not the first time an in-experienced Judge like Byrd has been picked by the home promoter, nor the last, in fact an in-experienced female Judge, for such a high profile fight, with big money involved. CJ Ross was responsible for giving a draw in the Alverez/ Mayweather fight, when Mayweather schooled Alverez and also the bad decision in favour of Bradley against Pacquiao, I remember when Eugenia Williams who had filed for bankruptcy, before she Judged the Holyfield/ Lewis Heavyweight unification and scored it to Holyfield, despite Lewis dominating the fight, she had even given the 7th round to Holyfield, a round that he was hurt badly and almost knocked out, but on this occasion they made her testify in front of a grand jury and replayed the 7th round, she squirmed has she had to explain why she scored that round to Holyfield, even claiming her view was obstructed.

Alverez had everything in his favour for this fight, the larger purse, no restriction on weight gain, between weigh-in and fight, the fight was in Vegas, where he has fought 9 times before, Golokin had never fought in Vegas before, (Alverez being the cash cow) and the date was on Mexican independance day. I don't really think people expected Golokin to get a decision, even if he won the rounds, he would have had to drop Alverez or stop him, it was set up for Alverez to win, as long as he stayed on his feet, though on this occasion he got a lucky draw, mainly down to Byrd.

Adelaide Bird is far from being an inexperienced judge

Neither was CJ Ross.

There are few more experienced judges at the highest level

[Anzi]

This is not the first time an in-experienced Judge like Byrd has been picked by the home promoter, nor the last, in fact an in-experienced female Judge, for such a high profile fight, with big money involved. CJ Ross was responsible for giving a draw in the Alverez/ Mayweather fight, when Mayweather schooled Alverez and also the bad decision in favour of Bradley against Pacquiao, I remember when Eugenia Williams who had filed for bankruptcy, before she Judged the Holyfield/ Lewis Heavyweight unification and scored it to Holyfield, despite Lewis dominating the fight, she had even given the 7th round to Holyfield, a round that he was hurt badly and almost knocked out, but on this occasion they made her testify in front of a grand jury and replayed the 7th round, she squirmed has she had to explain why she scored that round to Holyfield, even claiming her view was obstructed.

Alverez had everything in his favour for this fight, the larger purse, no restriction on weight gain, between weigh-in and fight, the fight was in Vegas, where he has fought 9 times before, Golokin had never fought in Vegas before, (Alverez being the cash cow) and the date was on Mexican independance day. I don't really think people expected Golokin to get a decision, even if he won the rounds, he would have had to drop Alverez or stop him, it was set up for Alverez to win, as long as he stayed on his feet, though on this occasion he got a lucky draw, mainly down to Byrd.

Adelaide Bird is far from being an inexperienced judge

Neither was CJ Ross.

There are few more experienced judges at the highest level

When these two judges are off, they are way off , Carl Morretti of top Rank tried to get Byrd removed off the Judging panel before the fight, because of the quality of her Judging, actually CJ Ross tweeted that she had the same score as Byrd and congratulated her. Anyone can hang around the circuit Judging, don't mean that you good at it.

[Tomasino]

Refs and judges must be subject to some kind off assessment and scrutiny.

Bird should be relegated after this

Hopefully this is like Canelo vs Floyd for C J Ross and it's her last card



ps is it a coincidence that some of the worst card I ever seen were from female judges?

There are cards as bad as hers turned in regular. It's just this was a huge fight. She's just a regular person trying to get by in life. Easily corrupted. The word judge somehow makes folk think of fairness

[CaptainSpacerod]

Adelaide Bird is far from being an inexperienced judge

Neither was CJ Ross.

There are few more experienced judges at the highest level

When these two judges are off, they are way off , Carl Morretti of top Rank tried to get Byrd removed off the Judging panel before the fight, because of the quality of her Judging, actually CJ Ross tweeted that she had the same score as Byrd and congratulated her. Anyone can hang around the circuit Judging, don't mean that you good at it.[/quote]

I saw that tweet and assumed it was a fake account.

If it's real she wants arresting too. And Bob Bennett.

[Stuarty]

I had GGG clear but there were a lot of close rounds so folk that had him by two etc I can get! Really good fight. Fair play to Canelo.