John Mugabi vs. Roberto Duran

[RandomPoster]

I think the John Mugabi vs. Marvin Hagler match was an absolutely great match. If Mugabi had stayed at Jr. Middleweight, how could a peak Mugabi have done against the following individuals in their primes at that weight:

Roberto Duran
Thomas Hearns
Julian Jackson

[tiny_acres]

Duran was never close to peak at 154

[gilgamesh]

I think Duran could've taken Mugabi at 154 or Middleweight. It'd have been a real hard fight for him though as he was past his peak by that time, but I think he had a bit too much game for Mugabi, and I think he could've avoided enough of Mugabi's bombs to take it deep and break Mugabi down.

[RandomPoster]

Duran was never close to peak at 154

He was World Champion at the following weight classes.

Lightweight
Welterweight
Light middleweight
Middleweight
Super middleweight

That weight class does not look too far out of his range. At least on paper, it looks suspiciously close to the middle. If he could win a world championship at Lightweight (max 135), he's not too big for 154 and if he can win a world championship at Super Middleweight (max 168), he's not too small for 154.

[gilgamesh]

Duran was never close to peak at 154

He wouldn't have had to have been at his peak to beat Mugabi.

[Noxy]

Mugabi was a mercurial sort of dude. The one who fought Hagler would be a handful for anyone, but how often did he actually turn up. At least he won the WBC though, good on him for that

[littlepug]

Theres not many that had the misfortune to bump into both Hagler AND Mcclellan in their pro careers !

[gilgamesh]

Theres not many that had the misfortune to bump into both Hagler AND Mcclellan in their pro careers !

Hell Mugabi would be the only one wouldn't he?

[littlepug]

Theres not many that had the misfortune to bump into both Hagler AND Mcclellan in their pro careers !

Hell Mugabi would be the only one wouldn't he?

Probably ! its like time travel boxing !

[tiny_acres]

Duran was never close to peak at 154

He wouldn't have had to have been at his peak to beat Mugabi.

Yes he would. Mugabe was a beast

[tiny_acres]

Duran was never close to peak at 154

He was World Champion at the following weight classes.

Lightweight
Welterweight
Light middleweight
Middleweight
Super middleweight

That weight class does not look too far out of his range. At least on paper, it looks suspiciously close to the middle. If he could win a world championship at Lightweight (max 135), he's not too big for 154 and if he can win a world championship at Super Middleweight (max 168), he's not too small for 154.

He may have held belts above 147. But he was peak at 135.

[gilgamesh]

Duran was never close to peak at 154

He wouldn't have had to have been at his peak to beat Mugabi.

Yes he would. Mugabe was a beast

He was a hell of a puncher, but he never beat a fighter of Duran's caliber.

[tiny_acres]

He wouldn't have had to have been at his peak to beat Mugabi.

Yes he would. Mugabe was a beast

He was a hell of a puncher, but he never beat a fighter of Duran's caliber.

I would of still picked Mugabi at 154.
Duran was a top 10 tag. One of my favorite fighters ever.
But his career was spotty after 147.

[gilgamesh]

No question about that, I think a guy like Mugabi is the type he'd shine against though.

[Kalan]

Roberto Duran would box Mugabi's ass off... Much like Roberto did to Davey Moore and Iran Barkley -- who also swung big and laced finesse.

John Mugabi might have knocked Hearns out.. If you started trading punches with the Beast he could nail you.

Julian Jackson would have iced Mugabi.. It was that big right hand.. He would time Mugabi's swings like he did Terry Norris and Harol Graham

Terry Norris didn't have bad timing, actually... He punched between Mugabi's shots and timed him perfectly the whole fight.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Duran or hearns would rip him up. He'd have a shot with Jackson.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Yes he would. Mugabe was a beast

He was a hell of a puncher, but he never beat a fighter of Duran's caliber.

I would of still picked Mugabi at 154.
Duran was a top 10 tag. One of my favorite fighters ever.
But his career was spotty after 147.

Much less spotty with a crude slugger wading into him.

[Kalan]

Duran or hearns would rip him up. He'd have a shot with Jackson.

Jackson would tear Mugabi's head off like Norris did... He would wait on Mugabi to wind up a big one -- like he waited on Norris and Graham.

But he wouldn't have to wait as long... When Jackson threw there was Hell to pay... He was one dangerous MFer at his best.

[elmersalsa]

It looked to me that John "The Beast" Mugabi wasn't in the same class of Duran, Hearns and Jackson. He got a better chance against Duran. But, I don't think he beats the Duran of the Davey Moore's fight.

[SenorPipino]

Duran was unpredictable by time he was fighting at 154 and higher.

Some sloppy defeats ( the ordinary Laing) and some utterly terrific performances (Moore and the much bigger, stronger, younger Barkley).

If Duran was motivated (and he better be when facing a puncher like Mugabi) I suspect Duran would turn in a dominating performance.

He had the chin and defensive skills to survive the Beast's Sunday punches and the much better talent.

A prepared Duran was still an ATG---remember him taking Hagler to the limit at 160?

Mugabi's punching power was supreme, but overall he wasn't anywhere near the class of Duran.

[elmersalsa]

Duran was unpredictable by time he was fighting at 154 and higher.

Some sloppy defeats ( the ordinary Laing) and some utterly terrific performances (Moore and the much bigger, stronger, younger Barkley).

If Duran was motivated (and he better be when facing a puncher like Mugabi) I suspect Duran would turn in a dominating performance.

He had the chin and defensive skills to survive the Beast's Sunday punches and the much better talent.

A prepared Duran was still an ATG---remember him taking Hagler to the limit at 160?

Mugabi's punching power was supreme, but overall he wasn't anywhere near the class of Duran.

I always wondered what if the great Roberto Duran fights the greats Thomas Hearns or Wilfred Benitez in the night of June 16, 1983 when he destroyed Davey Moore?


Would the outcome be the same?

The 154lbs class was TOO BIG for Duran, but on that night, Duran looked brilliant. I still favour Hearns over Duran at 154lbs and above, though. The weight would favour The Hitman.

[BoxBuzz]

Duran's story is more than his skillset, and his skill set alone is enough that anyone should be confident in placing their bets on Duran in this case.


Think about this.....(and Kalan....take off your party hat, and put your thinking cap on)....unless of course it gives you a rash.

Duran at his peak could beat ANYONE near his own size, including the men who handed him his most embarrassing defeats.

Even well after his prime, he nearly came back and beat one of the best middleweights of all time.

He was a force of nature partly due to skill set, which got him through almost every fight on it's own.

His transcendent magic was being able to take that skill set, and add a laser, bordering on hypnotic, focus, and a genius level ring generalship/intuition to the mix. He may have been a boxing savant. I'm kidding here...I more honestly believe you may find that he most likely had one of the highest IQ's of anyone who laced on the gloves......including the two dummy brothers who call themselves Doctors......in fact they are dunces in comparison.

The arguably best lightweight in history, BEAT the arguably best welterweight in history AND came close to beating arguably the best middleweight in history. When those opponents had no excuses.

Kalan and Saad seem to agree on one thing.....that Tommy Hearns would always beat Duran based on height and reach, and of course power.

I would sincerely have liked to have seen that tested in a second go round......as I'm not certain Kalan has accurately assessed those parameters.

I'm not sayin' I'd bet on Duran, the remaining two out of three of those fights had they happened, would be too close to call, and the first fight was an outlier, not a given.

As far as this thread is concerned, I would bet and collect on a Duran win.....IF there was a title on the line. I think Duran (by any point in time that this fight would have been made) may have needed an incentive. But if Mugabi held the title that Barkley held, Duran's walking out with the trinket.

[Kalan]

His transcendent magic was being able to take that skill set, and add a laser, bordering on hypnotic, focus, and a genius level ring generalship/intuition to the mix. He may have been a boxing savant. I'm kidding here...I more honestly believe you may find that he most likely had one of the highest IQ's of anyone who laced on the gloves......including the two dummy brothers who call themselves Doctors......in fact they are dunces in comparison.

BuzzBox you're pretty dopey and prone to hyperbole and kidding around to the point where you can't be serious.. Duran was no genius and lost numerous fights.. Vitali Klitschko was never floored and never behind on points after any fight -- and didn't take as much punishment as Duran who was behind on points frequently and lost many fights..

I rank Duran very highly historically. Higher than Hearns... But when you say "Kalan and Saad seem to agree on one thing.....that Tommy Hearns would always beat Duran based on height and reach, and of course power. I would sincerely have liked to have seen that tested in a second go round......as I'm not certain Kalan has accurately assessed those parameters. I'm not sayin' I'd bet on Duran, the remaining two out of three of those fights had they happened, would be too close to call, and the first fight was an outlier, not a given."

That particular matchup was as deadly for Duran as Liston was for Patterson... or Foreman was for Frazier and Norton... or Tyson was for Spinks... or Jose Napoles was for Curtis Cokes... There are rare match-ups where 1 fighter's weaknesses play into another fighter's strengths.

Tommy Hearn's tall frame and long arms allowed him to throw punches at Duran at angles he'd never seen...and from a distance where it was almost impossible for Duran to launch counterpunches.. Barley had 8 inches of reach on Duran and was fairly slow.. Duran could finesse that disadvantage and kept Barkley busy defending himself and waiting for the next punch from the quicker and more skillful Duran.. Hearns had 12" of reach advantage was was faster than Duran.. I'll go so far as to say Hearns was faster than Leonard.. Hearns's defense was vulnerable and Roberto desperately tried to get counters off -- but he was hitting air.. Particularly Hearns's right hand was biting into Duran.. It was going to be over quickly... Hearns was also physically stronger than Duran at 154, a perfect weight for Hearns -- so Duran couldn't bully him.

I've never seen a tougher match-up at the world level -- except for Liston-Patterson which was hopeless.

[BoxBuzz]

Well I do like your delivery, you should work for the post office.

Seriously, I appreciate your strong opinion, and your belief in it......maybe you'll get some converts along the way.

I've grown to appreciate your assessments, even when I don't agree with them.

If physical advantages were everything, you've nailed it.

And Hearns was impossible to psyche......something that came in handy for Duran when facing Hagler....funny how Hagler had more respect for duran than Hearns.

As far as comparing Klitschkco to Duran?.......that's a comic line. A soda up one's nose moment if you happen to enjoy a Pepsi every so often.

Place Vitali's ring IQ into a Duran clone, and send that clone out to face the genuine hands of stone.......and the Real Slim Shady.....( Roberto Duran) clowns his look alike doppleganger 24 hours a day.....make that 48 hours on Sundays.

I don't expect you to get this concept....even once..............I do however expect you to get the flu now and again.

[Kalan]

More of your stupidity and kidding around. You know Duran was no ring genius or Kirkland Laing and Robbie Sims wouldn't have beaten him. Leonard wouldn't have made him quit with Duran only a point or 2 down in the scoring.. Duran had a stomach ache or something or he wouldn't have quit.. He said after the fight that he had cramps.. I don't know exactly what ailment he had because he never talked about it a whole lot.

Vitali quit because he knew he was wrecking his left shoulder. He told his corner. "The pain is the worst I've ever felt" ... The surgeon who repaired it had never seen a rotator cuff like it and he'd seen 1000's of rotator cuff tears. "It was in two pieces. I've never seen that." You can google it and find out about it instead of making assumptions. The shoulder was slightly injured in training, but he gave it a couple weeks rest and thought he could deal with it. When it started hurting he thought it would go away once he warmed up real good. It got worse instead.

I love how people who aren't in somebody's shoes know all the answers to all their physical conditions. You for instance for somebody you hate.

some Vitali Klitschko opponents and results

Corrie Sanders... 39-2... Wins Heavyweight Championship... 8 round stoppage
Herbie Hide... 31-1... Wins Heavyweight Championship... KO 2
Sam Peter... 30-1... Wins Heavyweight Championship... 8 round stoppage
Tomasz Adamak... 44-1... 2-Division World Champion and never stopped before. KO 10
Juan Carlos Gomez... 44-1... Former World Cruiserweight Champion. KO 9
Odlanier Solis...17-0 undefeated Olympic Gold Medal winner. 1st round KO
Manuel Charr... 21-0 undefeated top ranked contender. Stoppage on cut in 4 rounds
Kevin Johnson... 22-0-1 undefeated top ranked contender. Swept every round on 2 cards
Chris Arreola... 27-0 undefeated top ranked contender. 10 round stoppage
Kirk Johnson... 34-1-1... Only previous loss was a ticky-tac DQ… 2 round KO
Timo Hoffman... 22-0... Bigger and taller than Vitali... Swept every round in 2 cards
Ed Mahone... 21-0-2... Undefeated contender... KO 3
Shannon Briggs, 51-5-1... 2-time Heavyweight Champion. Swept every round of UD

Chris Byrd, 30-1... Winning easily on all scorecards when forced to retire due to a completely severed rotator cuff assembly. He entered the ring with a slight tear, thinking he could fight through it, but it soon got a lot worse and Vitali retired after the 9th when he was miles ahead.. BTW Duran also lost a fight due to a shoulder injury -- the Pat Lawlor Fight.. So Duran lost 2 fights to pain or injury.

Lennox Lewis, 40-2-1... VK was winning on all scorecards when it was stopped on cuts on his left eyelid caused by foul blows... If they went to the scorecards Vitali wins Unanimous TD 6