Softest First Defence - Post War Lineal Heavyweight Champions

[keithmoonhangover]

Everyone likes an easy first defence. It's like that tricky second album.

From Joe Louis - To Foreman's second reign. Who was the softest option?

I'lll start us off with Bowe's shameful choice of a completely shot Michael Dokes. Anyone care to raise my bet?

[Bodyshot3]

Breaking and bending your timeline rules slightly Keith (well it is Christmas) Big George got the rather nice benefit of defending against Axel Schulz straight-up after the huge Moorer win.

Axel was not all that bad or a complete Euro gimme but the fairly ho-hum Akinwande had beaten him twice in his own backyard (despite what the records say) it was a nice, comfortable one for George and especially Stateside.

The fact that the unfancied Schulz unexpectedly turned it into a proper argument and was an unlucky lad in some people's opinion, suggested that George had his time back at the top.

[Ambling Alp II]

Guess I would go with Joe Frazier. After beating Ali, his first defense of the lineal title was against Terry Daniels.

[SenorPipino]

Guess I would go with Joe Frazier. After beating Ali, his first defense of the lineal title was against Terry Daniels.

That was my first thought too. Daniels was the pits, but at least the fight was shown on syndicated free television. As was Frazier's 2nd defense, against lightly regarded Ron Stander.

Frazier may have also thought he had a soft touch in his first defense of the NY version of the heavyweight title he won against Mathis.

Frazier took on 6-loss Manuel Ramos.
He won by a 2nd round KO, but not before being seriously hurt by no-hoper Ramos in the 1st round.

Foreman's quick blow out of the King, Joe Roman, also falls in the category of first defense soft-touches.

[Kalan]

I'll go with Sonny Liston.... After winning the Lineal Championship his first Defense was another fight with the man he just crushed like a grape... Liston was happy... "I'm going to knock Patterson out in the 1st round again... Easy as pie"

Nobody doubted him... Since Cassius Clay was predicting all his fight endings in rhymes such as "I understand Doug Jones would like to mix -- but he MUST fall in six" .... Reporters asked Patterson... "Give us a prediction in a rhyme."

Patterson thought for a while and said, "I won't go down.... In the first round... How's that?"

[SenorPipino]

I'll go with Sonny Liston.... After winning the Lineal Championship his first Defense was another fight with the man he just crushed like a grape... Liston was happy... "I'm going to knock Patterson out in the 1st round again... Easy as pie"

Nobody doubted him... Since Cassius Clay was predicting all his fight endings in rhymes such as "I understand Doug Jones would like to mix -- but he MUST fall in six" .... Reporters asked Patterson... "Give us a prediction in a rhyme."

Patterson thought for a while and said, "I won't go down.... In the first round... How's that?"

The power of negative thinking strikes again.

But in fairness, Patterson was a two time heavyweight champion who twice blasted out Johansson after being left for dead and twitching in their first matchup.

He deserved a second opportunity even if the outcome seemed preordained. Supposedly the contracts also stated that if Liston won, he had to grant Patterson a rematch.

Although he had a fearsome reputation, Liston was only a very slight favorite over the chinny Patterson in the first fight. Many believed that Patterson's greater speed would frustrate Sonny.

Liston was a solid 4-1 choice to wallop Patterson again in the return bout.

[Ambling Alp II]

Guess I would go with Joe Frazier. After beating Ali, his first defense of the lineal title was against Terry Daniels.

That was my first thought too. Daniels was the pits, but at least the fight was shown on syndicated free television. As was Frazier's 2nd defense, against lightly regarded Ron Stander.

Frazier may have also thought he had a soft touch in his first defense of the NY version of the heavyweight title he won against Mathis.

Frazier took on 6-loss Manuel Ramos.
He won by a 2nd round KO, but not before being seriously hurt by no-hoper Ramos in the 1st round.

Foreman's quick blow out of the King, Joe Roman, also falls in the category of first defense soft-touches.

Roman would be pretty close. I actually looked it up on the data base to see if Roman and Daniels ever fought. They did and Roman won that showdown. so I guess I am sticking with Daniels as the worst.

[SenorPipino]

If you look at Daniels' record, you'll see that he lost a staggering 25 of his final 32 fights, that lasted until 1981. He lost 12 of his final 13.

He had been KOd by the mediocre giant Jack O'Halloran just 5 months before the Frazier fight.

The much derided title fight was put together as a means to help the city of New Orleans promote the Super Bowl, which was being played there the next day.

Daniels actually put up a pretty gutsy scrap but was simply overpowered by Frazier.

Sadly, Terry Daniels appears to be another of boxing's victims.

He's 71 and suffers from tremors and memory loss and lives in an assisted living facility.

[keithmoonhangover]

I'll go with Sonny Liston.... After winning the Lineal Championship his first Defense was another fight with the man he just crushed like a grape... Liston was happy... "I'm going to knock Patterson out in the 1st round again... Easy as pie"

Nobody doubted him... Since Cassius Clay was predicting all his fight endings in rhymes such as "I understand Doug Jones would like to mix -- but he MUST fall in six" .... Reporters asked Patterson... "Give us a prediction in a rhyme."

Patterson thought for a while and said, "I won't go down.... In the first round... How's that?"

Back in the real world, there was a rematch clause, which Patterson exercised.

[paddy chavez]

holyfield fighting george foreman followed by bert copper and larry holmes very weak for such a good fighter,of course if foreman had been 15 years younger it's different but he wasn't

[banjo]

Michael Grant

[Ambling Alp II]

holyfield fighting george foreman followed by bert copper and larry holmes very weak for such a good fighter,of course if foreman had been 15 years younger it's different but he wasn't

That is a little deceiving. Holyfield was going to fight Tyson, then Damiani. Cooper was the 2nd replacement. Foreman was of course not the fighter he once was but was still a contender. Holmes was coming off a big win over Ray Mercer.

[Tony1244]

Ali vs Chuck Wepner

[paddy chavez]

holyfield fighting george foreman followed by bert copper and larry holmes very weak for such a good fighter,of course if foreman had been 15 years younger it's different but he wasn't

That is a little deceiving. Holyfield was going to fight Tyson, then Damiani. Cooper was the 2nd replacement. Foreman was of course not the fighter he once was but was still a contender. Holmes was coming off a big win over Ray Mercer.

Cooper was a replacement but foreman and Holmes were maximum money for the least risk fights , there's no doubting holyfields heart but those were picking the easiest fights he could get paid for

[Boxing Writer]

Michael Grant

Yes, Grant was really bad, but Lewis won lineal title by beating Shannon Briggs. I know Briggs should have lost to 49 y.o. Foreman, but it is what it is.

[banjo]

Michael Grant

Yes, Grant was really bad, but Lewis won lineal title by beating Shannon Briggs. I know Briggs should have lost to 49 y.o. Foreman, but it is what it is.

Oh yes I completely forgot about that.

[bennie]

Damon Reed was an Okie from Muskogee Herbie Hide ditched inside a round.

[Controversial]

Not the softest but Bowe defending against Dokes was pretty poor, especially as he followed it up by fighting Jesse Ferguson

[SenorPipino]

Damon Reed was an Okie from Muskogee Herbie Hide ditched inside a round.

But nobody will ever confuse Hide with a lineal champion, so he gets a pass.

[Ambling Alp II]

I think we also have to take into consideration the fighter's reputation at the time of the fight.
Take Lewis defending against Grant for example. Grant was actually considered the best heavyweight outside of Holyfield and Lewis. This was supposed to be a showdown and was on pay-per-view only. Grant was big and had a pretty record and everything.

[Boxing Writer]

I think we also have to take into consideration the fighter's reputation at the time of the fight.
Take Lewis defending against Grant for example. Grant was actually considered the best heavyweight outside of Holyfield and Lewis. This was supposed to be a showdown and was on pay-per-view only. Grant was big and had a pretty record and everything.

Grant looked awful against Golota. He got battered around the ring and almost lost that fight in the first round.

[Ambling Alp II]

He didn't look awful after the first round. He survived it and went on to win. He certainly had weaknesses, but nobody was calling him a joke going into the Lewis fight.

[Boxing Writer]

Michael Grant - Jose Luis Gonzalez Report

The Big Stink

By Mike DeLisa

On Halloween, Bally's in Las Vegas held its annual "Big Smoke," a two-day junket for cigar smokers. I was there with my cigar company and was surprised to see the billboard for the Grant-Gonzales fight, especially since it audaciously proclaimed it to be a title fight. Clearly one for the suckers. I had been ringside for Witherspoon's blowout of Gonzales and it was clear from that fight that Gonzales not only did not have the skills to compete with even middle echelon fighters, but also did not give a shit!

At another Vegas junket after that I ran into Jorge in a bar at Bally's at 3 in the morning (this is not a criticism since that is roughly noon in Vegas time!). He was alone. I introduced myself and asked him what he was doing. He told me he would be fighting Ross Purrity. He had on that half-smirk of his but he insisted he was taking things seriously, as evidenced by the fact that he was not drinking. (He wasn't). Purrity stopped him.

Oh well. Now he was fighting Michael Grant for a title. Grant at least has potential.

Tonight, I actually cut a meeting short to get home and watch this fight. After a couple of arm swings by Grant and two knockdowns, "sycophant" Joe Cortez waved it off. Thank heavens because my wife had taped E.R. for me and I wanted to watch it.

Oh yeah, Grant does have potential! He has the potential to be another Jorge Luis Gonzales -- only with more hair.

Source: http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/grantgo.htm

Mike DeLisa predicted it right way before Golota fight

[SenorPipino]

Lewis was only a 2 1/2 to 1 favorite over the unbeaten Grant.

It wasn't considered a soft defense at the time.

Grant was almost out in the early stages of the Golota bout, but he demonstrated gutsiness, hung in there and slowly took Golota's heart away.

Grant showed he could not only hang with a contender but had some toughness and resiliency.

Lewis did foul Grant by pulling his head down into an uppercut.

[Flump]

Not the softest but Bowe defending against Dokes was pretty poor, especially as he followed it up by fighting Jesse Ferguson

To be fair it was supposed to be Mercer instead of Ferguson, but Jesse ruined the script by beating the inconsistent Mercer in an upset.

And while he was shot and overweight, Dokes had been on a decent run against C level opposition since getting concussed by Ruddock. My vote in this as far as real champions go would have to be Jose Roman. I felt sorry for him.