When Did Manny Pacquiao's Prime End?

[Ruthless-RKO]

Could be up for a really good debate.. Jokes welcome.. But I think we could see a lot of different answers..

[gilgamesh]

Well...I'd say the very best Pacquiao we ever saw was from about 2008 thru 2010 or 2011 sometime. He looked a little less fierce by the time Tim Bradley 1 rolled around, though I still thought he got screwed royally in that fight and won very clearly.

[gilgamesh]

That being said. Even though he was knocked out in the fight, I thought Manny performed better in the 4th Marquez fight (up until the KO that is) than he had in the 3rd fight with Marquez.

[SenorPipino]

I thought slippage began (both mentally and physically) during the Margarito fight in 2010.

He was hurt on several occasions although he covered it up well.

Then he hurt Margarito badly in the final 20 seconds of the 10th round.

The battered, vision impaired Margarito was ripe to be taken out in the next round. All Pacquiao had to do was come out, throw an avalanche of punches and the referee would have stepped in.

Instead Pacquiao took his foot off the gas and coasted the final 2 rounds.

I don't feel that he ever put his foot back on the pedal for the remainder if his career.

From then on, he was no longer a buzzsaw. Just impressive in spurts.

In his next fight he just did what was necessary against an aging, outgunned Shane Mosely.

Then he looked ragged and the part of a loser in his third fight against JMM. It was the first time Pacquiao looked very beatable since fight #2 with Marquez.

And then the aura if invincibility ended when he dropped a split decision to Bradley.

I felt he was probably jobbed that night, but Pacquiao did himself no favors by fighting hard maybe just 45 seconds of most rounds.

The judges undoubtedly gave Bradley credit for at least trying to fight for close to 3 minutes, even if he was often ineffective.

Brian Kenny said he was at ringside and wondered what the uproar was about. He scored it 7-5 Bradley, pointing out that Bradley was the more consistent fighter that night.

Pacquiao fought extremely well in spurts, but Bradley put out greater effort for 36 minutes.

I've watched that fight again on several occasions and I see it as a much closer fight than I did the night it actually happened.

By now it was apparent that the Pacquioa prime was a thing of the past.

[IKSRTFO]

Bradley fight isn't an option?

[Ruthless-RKO]

Bradley fight isn't an option?

1st fight? I believe it took place between Marquez III and IV?

You could just pick Marquez III

[IKSRTFO]

Bradley fight isn't an option?

1st fight? I believe it took place between Marquez III and IV?

You could just pick Marquez III

I did pick Marquez III but I truly believe he started to decline during the Bradley fight as it's the first one he couldn't fight 3 rounds. Marquez is an anomaly because they've always had close battles.

[DrDuke]

After Morales he had still been looking sharp. The period after Cotto demonstrated the very first, tiny marks of the decline, as Pac had stopped scoring KOs. The 3rd Marquez fight is hard to call the beginning of the real decline, because that fight was as difficult and controversial as the previous Marquez fights. Marquez was a kinda kryptonite for Pac, it is well-known. Furthermore, after Marquez III Pac had a good fight against Bradley, where he had been clearly robbed. The 4th fight vs Marquez had demonstrated more explicit signs of decline. But it's anyway a special case, because it was already the 4th fight against the same dangerous opponent, Marquez obviously was adapting to Pacquiao more from a one fight to another. And in the Horn fight Pac had really looked like a fading boxer, even though I've given my score to Manny. So, I'd say, the end of Pacquiao's Prime was gradual.

[ewenhay]

I thought slippage began (both mentally and physically) during the Margarito fight in 2010.

He was hurt on several occasions although he covered it up well.

Then he hurt Margarito badly in the final 20 seconds of the 10th round.

The battered, vision impaired Margarito was ripe to be taken out in the next round. All Pacquiao had to do was come out, throw an avalanche of punches and the referee would have stepped in.

Instead Pacquiao took his foot off the gas and coasted the final 2 rounds.

I don't feel that he ever put his foot back on the pedal for the remainder if his career.

From then on, he was no longer a buzzsaw. Just impressive in spurts.

In his next fight he just did what was necessary against an aging, outgunned Shane Mosely.

Then he looked ragged and the part of a loser in his third fight against JMM. It was the first time Pacquiao looked very beatable since fight #2 with Marquez.

And then the aura if invincibility ended when he dropped a split decision to Bradley.

I felt he was probably jobbed that night, but Pacquiao did himself no favors by fighting hard maybe just 45 seconds of most rounds.

The judges undoubtedly gave Bradley credit for at least trying to fight for close to 3 minutes, even if he was often ineffective.

Brian Kenny said he was at ringside and wondered what the uproar was about. He scored it 7-5 Bradley, pointing out that Bradley was the more consistent fighter that night.

Pacquiao fought extremely well in spurts, but Bradley put out greater effort for 36 minutes.

I've watched that fight again on several occasions and I see it as a much closer fight than I did the night it actually happened.

By now it was apparent that the Pacquioa prime was a thing of the past.

Very well put. I think that pretty much nails it.

[Counter-puncher]

When he cut down on the Special Shakes

[Covfefe]

When he cut down on the Special Shakes

Or when Marquez started using them too?

Their frames for that fight, Marquez is more obvious, are ridiculous.

I’ll never forget seeing that KO. Thought Marquez won the third on points, outboxed him for me. Didn’t manage to stay up for the fourth, downloaded it from WBVA, short file and I assumed Pacquaio had stopped him. I jumped out of my chair when Marquez landed that shot, one of the best feelings I’ve ever had watching boxing.

Had a similar thing happen with Williams-Martinez 2, the first was a great fight, then a short file again I assumed Williams had stopped him and then blam. Knockout of the year.

Very similar winged hooks too.

Edit.

Just watched them both again, they’re not that similar. Marquez is a proper over hand right, Martinez’s is a weird winged hook.

[Ruthless-RKO]

Like Mike Tyson any discussion about Pacman is polarizing. His fans will claim it was the fight BEFORE he lost to someone they hate, and others will state inconvenient realities.

You are right. You're going to get some fan boys who will always do that

[pablothunder]

I'm going with the thinking that Margarito was the pinnacle and the gradual decline slowly began (it may have begun earlier as I can see it in fights prior to that) but that was the peak of the mountain, the levelling out was underway and the prime was passed.

[jamamb]

i think his prime ended around 2010. i dont hate anyone who beat manny, although i know some ppl just love to inject these whole 'hating' and 'unfair' narratives from the go.

for me its just a matter of very clear drop in physical prowess. he clearly lost some oomph and energy, for whatever reason. less power, far less punches, etc. and still hasnt scored a stoppage since.

[jamamb]

btw i see multiple ppl voted for mannys prime ending at the horn fight

any of them care to explain why

[Ruthless-RKO]

btw i see multiple ppl voted for mannys prime ending at the horn fight

any of them care to explain why

Probably the Manny fan boys that believe he was still at the top of his game at the Horn fight.

[ElJefe]

When he cut down on the Special Shakes

Or when Marquez started using them too?

Their frames for that fight, Marquez is more obvious, are ridiculous.

I’ll never forget seeing that KO. Thought Marquez won the third on points, outboxed him for me. Didn’t manage to stay up for the fourth, downloaded it from WBVA, short file and I assumed Pacquaio had stopped him. I jumped out of my chair when Marquez landed that shot, one of the best feelings I’ve ever had watching boxing.

Had a similar thing happen with Williams-Martinez 2, the first was a great fight, then a short file again I assumed Williams had stopped him and then blam. Knockout of the year.

Very similar winged hooks too.

Edit.

Just watched them both again, they’re not that similar. Marquez is a proper over hand right, Martinez’s is a weird winged hook.

I've only just come across WBVA, how do you sign up?

[Covfefe]

When he cut down on the Special Shakes

Or when Marquez started using them too?

Their frames for that fight, Marquez is more obvious, are ridiculous.

I’ll never forget seeing that KO. Thought Marquez won the third on points, outboxed him for me. Didn’t manage to stay up for the fourth, downloaded it from WBVA, short file and I assumed Pacquaio had stopped him. I jumped out of my chair when Marquez landed that shot, one of the best feelings I’ve ever had watching boxing.

Had a similar thing happen with Williams-Martinez 2, the first was a great fight, then a short file again I assumed Williams had stopped him and then blam. Knockout of the year.

Very similar winged hooks too.

Edit.

Just watched them both again, they’re not that similar. Marquez is a proper over hand right, Martinez’s is a weird winged hook.

I've only just come across WBVA, how do you sign up?

You might need an invitation. Hang on let me go and look.

[HomicideHenry]

I'd say somewhere between Clottey and Margarito. He couldn't put those guys away, and they were relatively pointless fights at that time to make.

[Ruthless-RKO]

I'd say somewhere between Clottey and Margarito. He couldn't put those guys away, and they were relatively pointless fights at that time to make.

Margarito was after Clottey wasn't it?

[HomicideHenry]

I'd say somewhere between Clottey and Margarito. He couldn't put those guys away, and they were relatively pointless fights at that time to make.

Margarito was after Clottey wasn't it?

Believe so.

[SenorPipino]

Clottey and Margarito were big guys, especially compared to the smallish Pacquiao.

And they both had great chins.

Pacquiao being unable to take them out really had nothing to do with a decline in skills. Welters and super welters with tough beards simply weren't going to budge versus Pacquiao.

And hell. Pacquiao didn't take ANYBODY out for nearly 9 years until he feasted on Matthysse.

He had a tough time destroying 147 pounders. When he found himself banging on bigger bodies, knockouts became the exception, not the rule.

[Ruthless-RKO]

Clottey and Margarito were big guys, especially compared to the smallish Pacquiao.

And they both had great chins.

Pacquiao being unable to take them out really had nothing to do with a decline in skills. Welters and super welters with tough beards simply weren't going to budge versus Pacquiao.

And hell. Pacquiao didn't take ANYBODY out for nearly 9 years until he feasted on Matthysse.

He had a tough time destroying 147 pounders. When he found himself banging on bigger bodies, knockouts became the exception, not the rule.

The Margarito fight was for a vacant title against a former welterweight. Just an easy easy of becoming an Octuple champion.

[chrisjs1985]

It was probably around 2010/2011 perhaps not one specific fight. I think he had started to get bored with the sport/had many other responsibilities which had started to catch up. I felt he didn't have his edge in Marquez III and was taken to school and that served as something of a wake-up because he seemed to have that edge back to him in fight IV and looked very good pre-KO. He beat Bradley in fight I with something to spare too and was robbed but IMO looked somewhat disinterested in that one.

Physically the Marquez KO was the tip of the iceberg.

[Ruthless-RKO]

It was probably around 2010/2011 perhaps not one specific fight. I think he had started to get bored with the sport/had many other responsibilities which had started to catch up. I felt he didn't have his edge in Marquez III and was taken to school and that served as something of a wake-up because he seemed to have that edge back to him in fight IV and looked very good pre-KO. He beat Bradley in fight I with something to spare too and was robbed but IMO looked somewhat disinterested in that one.

Physically the Marquez KO was the tip of the iceberg.

Have to agree here. Maybe mentally aswell that controversial loss to Bradley got to him..

Like you said he was doing well up until the KO. Didn’t he drop JMM in the IV’th fight too.