Why did the cross armed defense go out of style?

[TheLeprechaun]

I was watching Foreman vs Cooney earlier (absolutely starched him) and Foreman was employing this cross arm defense very well. He was hard to hit and countered off it a few times. He used that a lot in his career and had good success. Obviously it could be hard on the arms if you're taking punches to the forearms and he was game as a badger so maybe he is an exception but it looked like a pretty good style if you could get it down. Why do you think it went out of fashion? I know old school fighters like Archie Moore used to use it.

[Boxing Writer]

Ike Ibeabuchi was probably the last top class heavyweight that used cross armed defense.

[TheLeprechaun]

Ike Ibeabuchi was probably the last top class heavyweight that used cross armed defense.

Good call, I remember him using it. At British level I remember John Ryder using it early in his career.

[leftrightleft]

I think if a heavyweight used that now and moved his head they’d be a handful for anyone. I think the main reason no one uses that style anymore is because not many people used it in the first place (Tim Witherspoon, Dwight qawi, Joe Frazier) and I don’t think apart from possibly Qawi Witherspoon and few others no one really can teach the style it’s an old school style. Hopefully we see someone use it because when they use it right it’s great to watch.

[jamamb]

does that not put your arms out of position to punch? to punch you have to pull each arm back and then throw it forward again

[bigjack]

does that not put your arms out of position to punch? to punch you have to pull each arm back and then throw it forward again

It works if you a Joe Frazier or Smoking Bert Cooper type of hooking fighter.

[BitPlayer]

I think Chisora has used it a bit.

Was it ever really in style?

[boxingknockout]

It always seemed a rubbish defense, you can’t counter off it

[Oiky]

Cross arm defence works very well if you can use it properly

Specially if you are handy with your hooks

[jamamb]

ive fooled around with it and just find it a lot harder and awkward to get shots off quick enough and without telegraphing them. it makes straights/crosses especially far harder to throw and i still find hooks more difficult to throw than a conventional stance

[Gnome]

I remember an obese Chauncy Welliver employing it against Solis about ten years back. Didn't really work for him.

[leejonesjnr]

As has been said, it hasn’t gone out of style, it’s never really been in style, always a bit of an oddity.

[REEVE]

From what I remember Pete Buckley had the cross arm defence mastered

[Counter-puncher]

From what I remember Pete Buckley had the cross arm defence mastered

good call i should have remembered that

[semtexreilly]

Ken Norton had 3 very close fights with Ali using it getting one win but a lot of folk say he should have won at least two of three fights

[gilgamesh]

Ken Norton had 3 very close fights with Ali using it getting one win but a lot of folk say he should have won at least two of three fights

I've only ever seen the 1st Ali-Norton fight and the 3rd one.

The 1st one Norton DID win officially, and he broke Ali's jaw there.

The 3rd fight I thought he won every bit as clearly, but the judges robbed him blind. I had it 10 rounds to 5 for Norton in a 15 rounder.

[gilgamesh]

I'd say it's a style you don't see very much though because frankly it's not very effective. It works good for big powerful guys like Foreman, and Archie Moore used it a lot. I'd say it works good for fighters with powerful hooks as another poster touched on, but even for those guys it leaves them open for a lot of shots, and they're just gonna have to be tough as well as hard hitting because I'm sure Moore and Foreman got hit fairly regularly in their fights.

Norton used it too.

I can't think of too many guys that ever effectively used this style.

[Counter-puncher]

Ken Norton had 3 very close fights with Ali using it getting one win but a lot of folk say he should have won at least two of three fights

interestingly, when Norton fought Holmes, especially in the earlier rounds before Holmes' bicep went, Norton didn't block the jab the same way he managed to against Ali.

basically, Holmes was continuallyswitching the position of his left hand, laterally and vertically, so he was jabbing along a different plane and angle to the one Norton was trying to block out with his cross-armed guard (he was kindof pawing towards the anticipated plane with his right hand but the jab was coming underneath it or to one side or the other) it was an outstanding example of how to find angles to unlock a defence, one way he showed better technique and ring nous than Ali.

[keithmoonhangover]

I was watching Foreman vs Cooney earlier (absolutely starched him) and Foreman was employing this cross arm defense very well. He was hard to hit and countered off it a few times. He used that a lot in his career and had good success. Obviously it could be hard on the arms if you're taking punches to the forearms and he was game as a badger so maybe he is an exception but it looked like a pretty good style if you could get it down. Why do you think it went out of fashion? I know old school fighters like Archie Moore used to use it.

Archie trained Foreman when he started his comeback and that's why George used it.

[Grilling Machine]

The idea's to force your opponents to throw headshots by covering your body, making it the most economical style in terms of not having to move your body or absorb too many punches to it. The big downside is that you're almost certain to take more headshots (despite your increased focus on them), so it's largely only favoured by those with great chins and less-than-brilliant stamina.

If you can't take temple shots it's a bad, bad idea. And if you're fit enough to elude most bodyshots without it, you might as well protect your head with summat more common.

[deadpan]

I remember an obese Chauncy Welliver employing it against Solis about ten years back. Didn't really work for him.

Ha, yes. I was at that fight. Good recall! Vitali-Peter undercard.