Saunders: If Canelo-GGG Winner Don't Face Me Next - It's a Duck!

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Enlightened-One
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Saunders: If Canelo-GGG Winner Don't Face Me Next - It's a Duck!

Post by Enlightened-One »

"Saunders: If Canelo-GGG Winner Don't Face Me Next - It's a Duck!"

"If the winner doesn't fight me in a unification, we know someone is ducking someone," Saunders told BBC Sport.

"I look [like the] favorite for the winner but who knows, anything can happen."

Saunders does believe that his victory against Lemieux may have scared off them off.

"To be honest, do I blame them for not fighting me after I'd beaten Lemieux? No," Saunders told BBC Radio 5 live's boxing podcast.

"They are in for a big-money rematch. Business-wise I don't hate them or despise them for it. After that, there is no excuse for any of us. If I don't fight the winner, I'm ducking; if he doesn't, the same."


Thoughts? :confused:
SenorPipino
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Re: Saunders: If Canelo-GGG Winner Don't Face Me Next - It's a Duck!

Post by SenorPipino »

I don't think that beating Lemieux put the fear of god into either Canelo or Golovkin.

A contender should beat the powerful but limited Canadian.
Deleted_Scenes
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Re: Saunders: If Canelo-GGG Winner Don't Face Me Next - It's a Duck!

Post by Deleted_Scenes »

I think Saunders is kryptonite for Canelo's concrete feet and complete lack of ring cutting ability. Fast hands and flashy combos would see him fare better than Lemieux, but barely. Canelo's weaknesses are exactly what it takes to nullify Saunders' strengths. I'd see another clear UD for Billy Joe.

Let's not forget, the WBO were happy to make Canelo mandatory to Saunders not too long ago. Oscar wanted nothing of it (I think it was before the Liam Smith fight). I think there's a reason for that, made all the more clear by Saunders' total dominance over Lemieux. Saunders has a chin too, and Khan aside, Canelo isn't usually the one-hitter-quitter type anyway.

If Canelo beats Golovkin, Oscar keeps him well clear of Saunders.

Golovkin? I'd expect Golovkin to take the fight - and probably win. Styles matter. Golovkin has the subtle footwork and ring cutting ability to make life difficult for BJS. And if he hasn't aged too far, I'd expect to see him drop his hands and hammer Saunders to the body (not a lot of firepower to worry about, coming in the opposite direction).

A somewhat fresh Golovkin breaks down Saunders to a late stoppage. An aged Golovkin loses a closer decision than Canelo would.

None of the above is to suggest GGG is better than Canelo, or beats him easy in may. That's a true 50/50 fight which I don't have a prediction for yet. It's all a matter of styles.
Enlightened-One
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Re: Saunders: If Canelo-GGG Winner Don't Face Me Next - It's a Duck!

Post by Enlightened-One »

Deleted_Scenes wrote: 01 Feb 2018, 10:19 I think Saunders is kryptonite for Canelo's concrete feet and complete lack of ring cutting ability. Fast hands and flashy combos would see him fare better than Lemieux, but barely. Canelo's weaknesses are exactly what it takes to nullify Saunders' strengths. I'd see another clear UD for Billy Joe.

Let's not forget, the WBO were happy to make Canelo mandatory to Saunders not too long ago. Oscar wanted nothing of it (I think it was before the Liam Smith fight). I think there's a reason for that, made all the more clear by Saunders' total dominance over Lemieux. Saunders has a chin too, and Khan aside, Canelo isn't usually the one-hitter-quitter type anyway.

If Canelo beats Golovkin, Oscar keeps him well clear of Saunders.

Golovkin? I'd expect Golovkin to take the fight - and probably win. Styles matter. Golovkin has the subtle footwork and ring cutting ability to make life difficult for BJS. And if he hasn't aged too far, I'd expect to see him drop his hands and hammer Saunders to the body (not a lot of firepower to worry about, coming in the opposite direction).

A somewhat fresh Golovkin breaks down Saunders to a late stoppage. An aged Golovkin loses a closer decision than Canelo would.

None of the above is to suggest GGG is better than Canelo, or beats him easy in may. That's a true 50/50 fight which I don't have a prediction for yet. It's all a matter of styles.
At some point or other, Canelo, Golovkin, Lemieux and Eubank Jr. have all previously declined guaranteed opportunities to face Saunders, with the Brit having already accepted the terms proposed to him, whilst others, such as Avtandil Khurtsidze, have actually preferred to take step-aside money rather than face him.

Even Demetrius Andrade has admitted that he's not ready to face the Brit just yet. And Danny Jacobs has stated that he’d prefer to make the jump to 168lbs, rather than attempt to negotiate a bout with Saunders or earn himself the mandatory challenger position for Billy Joe’s WBO title.

I think Billy Joe Saunders is simply a high-risk low-return type fighter, which means he has been overlooked by many opponents’.

For sure, some of the guys I’ve named stand may possibly be capable of beating the Brit, but it won’t be easy and nor will they look good doing so, because of his incredibly awkward unattractive, yet effective, fighting style. He's a lifelong member of the "who needs you" club!
Deleted_Scenes
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Re: Saunders: If Canelo-GGG Winner Don't Face Me Next - It's a Duck!

Post by Deleted_Scenes »

Well put. I'd actually favour Jacobs to beat Saunders, if he stays disciplined and uses his length to his advantage. You're right in saying he wouldn't look good doing it though.

The fight I want to see is Saunders vs Derevyanchenko. Both technically sound fighters, the Ukrainian with the aggressive, come forward style, combined with the subtle footwork and angles... I think the styles could mesh well, and make for a competitive and entertaining fight. It's probably the biggest test for Saunders too, outside of the top 3.

Would Derevyanchenko want it? No idea.
boxing_rocks
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Re: Saunders: If Canelo-GGG Winner Don't Face Me Next - It's a Duck!

Post by boxing_rocks »

The reason Golovkin didn't fight Saunders in June was GB insisting on a long promotion period. Saunders had multiple opportunities to fight Golovkin earlier, but was either ducking or pricing himself out.
jamamb
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Re: Saunders: If Canelo-GGG Winner Don't Face Me Next - It's a Duck!

Post by jamamb »

bjs would have a great chance of beating top names like 'face defense' golovkin. why lose to him for comparatively little money
Enlightened-One
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Re: Saunders: If Canelo-GGG Winner Don't Face Me Next - It's a Duck!

Post by Enlightened-One »

boxing_rocks wrote: 01 Feb 2018, 10:58 The reason Golovkin didn't fight Saunders in June was GB insisting on a long promotion period. Saunders had multiple opportunities to fight Golovkin earlier, but was either ducking or pricing himself out.
Saunders never had multiple opportunities to face Golovkin. K2 offered the Brit (on one occassion only) less than $1.5m to face GGG. Tom Loeffler didn't refute this claim... and the purse being offered was clearly insufficient.

If K2 insists on submitting lowball offers, they cannot subsequently proclaim "duck!" whenever they're rejected.

K2 had already negotiated terms with Queensberry Promotions, with a contract that Saunders signed that GGG didn't, prior to Loeffler formally agreeing with GBP for Golovkin to face Canelo instead.

Stating "multples," when it only happened "once" and swapping the sequence of events to adhere to your preferred narrative, doesn't undermine the real-world facts of the situation.
boxing_rocks
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Re: Saunders: If Canelo-GGG Winner Don't Face Me Next - It's a Duck!

Post by boxing_rocks »

BJS was offered more than he deserved taking into account his drawing "abilities" and how boring of a fighter he is (or at least was pre-Lemieux). He definitely could fight GGG multiple times when Gennady desperately needed an opponent.
Deleted_Scenes
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Re: Saunders: If Canelo-GGG Winner Don't Face Me Next - It's a Duck!

Post by Deleted_Scenes »

boxing_rocks wrote: 01 Feb 2018, 10:58 The reason Golovkin didn't fight Saunders in June was GB insisting on a long promotion period. Saunders had multiple opportunities to fight Golovkin earlier, but was either ducking or pricing himself out.
As enlightened-one says, the fight might have been talked about, but offers weren't made. For much of the period you're referring to, Golovkin was either tied up with mandatories, unifying other belts (Lemieux), or kowtowing to Cotto/Canelo so as not to lose the mandatory position with the WBC. The one opportunity Golovkin vs Saunders could have been made, Saunders signed the contract, only for GBP to get in the way.

Before Saunders really reached world level, he did openly state he wasn't ready for Golovkin yet (run up to the Eubank jr fight, after Eubank sr tried to make out his son would walk through everyone including GGG). Not sure that counts as ducking though, seeing as Saunders was only an EBU champ at the time...
boxing_rocks
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Re: Saunders: If Canelo-GGG Winner Don't Face Me Next - It's a Duck!

Post by boxing_rocks »

Deleted_Scenes wrote: 01 Feb 2018, 11:21
boxing_rocks wrote: 01 Feb 2018, 10:58 The reason Golovkin didn't fight Saunders in June was GB insisting on a long promotion period. Saunders had multiple opportunities to fight Golovkin earlier, but was either ducking or pricing himself out.
As enlightened-one says, the fight might have been talked about, but offers weren't made. For much of the period you're referring to, Golovkin was either tied up with mandatories, unifying other belts (Lemieux), or kowtowing to Cotto/Canelo so as not to lose the mandatory position with the WBC. The one opportunity Golovkin vs Saunders could have been made, Saunders signed the contract, only for GBP to get in the way.

Before Saunders really reached world level, he did openly state he wasn't ready for Golovkin yet (run up to the Eubank jr fight, after Eubank sr tried to make out his son would walk through everyone including GGG). Not sure that counts as ducking though, seeing as Saunders was only an EBU champ at the time...
I can agree with most of what you said, but quoting EO is an utter crime in this forum.
Deleted_Scenes
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Re: Saunders: If Canelo-GGG Winner Don't Face Me Next - It's a Duck!

Post by Deleted_Scenes »

boxing_rocks wrote: 01 Feb 2018, 11:24 I can agree with most of what you said, but quoting EO is an utter crime in this forum.
:OhYes: Noted. Even a broken clock gets it right twice a day though, right?
Enlightened-One
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Re: Saunders: If Canelo-GGG Winner Don't Face Me Next - It's a Duck!

Post by Enlightened-One »

boxing_rocks wrote: 01 Feb 2018, 11:24
Deleted_Scenes wrote: 01 Feb 2018, 11:21
boxing_rocks wrote: 01 Feb 2018, 10:58 The reason Golovkin didn't fight Saunders in June was GB insisting on a long promotion period. Saunders had multiple opportunities to fight Golovkin earlier, but was either ducking or pricing himself out.
As enlightened-one says, the fight might have been talked about, but offers weren't made. For much of the period you're referring to, Golovkin was either tied up with mandatories, unifying other belts (Lemieux), or kowtowing to Cotto/Canelo so as not to lose the mandatory position with the WBC. The one opportunity Golovkin vs Saunders could have been made, Saunders signed the contract, only for GBP to get in the way.

Before Saunders really reached world level, he did openly state he wasn't ready for Golovkin yet (run up to the Eubank jr fight, after Eubank sr tried to make out his son would walk through everyone including GGG). Not sure that counts as ducking though, seeing as Saunders was only an EBU champ at the time...
I can agree with most of what you said, but quoting EO is an utter crime in this forum.
The problem with you... was that you aggressively lambasted me for having the sheer audacity to state that Golovkin didn’t turn down a guaranteed opportunity to face Billy Joe Saunders due to injury, despite me quoting Abel Sanchez’s words and also supplying a video of the Brit challenging both Canelo and GGG at a press conference, accusing the Kazakh of “losing his pen!”

Several months later… and now you openly concede that Golovkin wasn’t injured after all, but you didn't apologise to me for your harsh words and nor did you admit to being wrong. You have no integrity! :lol:
boxing_rocks
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Re: Saunders: If Canelo-GGG Winner Don't Face Me Next - It's a Duck!

Post by boxing_rocks »

I still think that Golovkin was injured before or during Jacobs fight. We won't know the truth until he retires or ever.

Beside GB objections, Kazakh government money wasn't readily available which made satisfying demands of BJS impossible.
Enlightened-One
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Re: Saunders: If Canelo-GGG Winner Don't Face Me Next - It's a Duck!

Post by Enlightened-One »

boxing_rocks wrote: 01 Feb 2018, 12:37 I still think that Golovkin was injured before or during Jacobs fight. We won't know the truth until he retires or ever.
The Golovkin injury was the primary reason you argued, but you couldn't substantiate your allegation, could you, since no one from Team GGG corroborated it? ;-)
Thomastearns
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Re: Saunders: If Canelo-GGG Winner Don't Face Me Next - It's a Duck!

Post by Thomastearns »

I think BJS can already see Canelo ducking him, assuming both win, hence the attempted call out. I'm sure Saunders would prefer Canelo, mainly for the same fiscal reasons that everyone else does, but also stylistic ones.

Problem is Canelo seems to have little inclination to face Saunders. It's pretty obvious he wasn't keen on GGG either, but his hand was eventually forced by his own fans demanding it, and the money was good. If he beats GGG, Canelo will absolutely hold all the cards.

So the best thing BJS can do is to look as good as possible in giving Martin Murray an epic lesson in the art of boxing. The buildup to this possible meeting might take years and years..

If GGG wins, and its convincing enough to deter another big $$$$$ rematch with Canelo, then there is no reason for him to avoid a unification fight with Saunders, massive paycut or not.
gilgamesh
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Re: Saunders: If Canelo-GGG Winner Don't Face Me Next - It's a Duck!

Post by gilgamesh »

There's lots of interesting challengers at Middleweight for the winner of Canelo-GGG 2, but Saunders should definitely be near the top of the list of consideration.

I don't think anybody would be complaining to see Jacobs get another crack at the top against the winner of this either.
KiwiRider
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Re: Saunders: If Canelo-GGG Winner Don't Face Me Next - It's a Duck!

Post by KiwiRider »

To me, a duck is where the #1 mandatory challenger, and the champion don't fight within one year. That is the prescribed period where they must fight.
I don't see that in this instance.
Canelo can fight whoever he chooses because he has no mandatory commitments. GGG has 3 commitments per year. If he retains his belts after his next fight, those commitments will keep him busy for the rest of 2018.
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