Frank Bruno v Larry Holmes (Nov 84)

[nobleart1978]

Imagine if Bruno had beaten Bonecrusher on points over 10 rounds and then gone on to fight Holmes in Las Vegas for the IBF strap.

How do you see the fight going ?

[jamesmcdonnell]

Larry would have ripped him to pieces.

[jameswilson]

Holmes stoppage I would imagine.

[Noxy]

Holmes by late stoppage. I‘m not sure Frank was ready for Vegas at that stage of his career, I think he might have gassed after 7 or 8 rounds.

[Controversial]

Holmes late stoppage.

[Stuarty]

Holmes by stoppage.

[DrDuke]

I agree with the common opinion. Larry would have dominated from the begining and somewhere in the second half of the fight there would have been a stoppage.

[jameswilson]

[oogiebe]

Holmes would box his ears off.

[bennie]

Bruno was pissing it against Bonecrusher when he got tagged in the last round and froze. Bonecrusher then gave Holmes a surprisingly tough fight. He was stopped on a cut and nothing more than that. Bearing in mind that Bruno's management had the clout to get Holmes over here, Bruno-Holmes in London in November 1984 is hard for the ageing champion in the early and even in the middle rounds but his class and experience would tell and he would nail Bruno in the later rounds to force a stoppage, much like Witherspoon-Bruno two years later, and Witherspoon gave Holmes a really hard fight.

[bigjack]

Larry had an amazing chin and arguably the best jab in heavyweight history,good footwork and great stamina with superb recovery powers,so basically there wasn't anything Bruno could do to even make it close in my opinion.He would have some early success i suppose but would get slowly busted up and stopped.

[spudder56]

There was now way that Bruno could’ve beaten Larry Holmes who was one of the best of all time imo

[oogiebe]

There was now way that Bruno could’ve beaten Larry Holmes who was one of the best of all time imo

[jamesmcdonnell]

Berbick must have been hitting the crack pipe hard. What in fucks name was he jabbering about?

[Flump]

Berbick must have been hitting the crack pipe hard. What in fucks name was he jabbering about?

To be fair I think Berbick was one of the few 80's heavyweights who wasn't on the hard stuff, he was just, in contemporary language, nuts.

[Flump]

Holmes around 10 or 11, Unless Bruno gets him out early, which is unlikely then it gets worse for Frank the longer the fight goes.

Maybe in 92' Frank has more of a chance.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Berbick must have been hitting the crack pipe hard. What in fucks name was he jabbering about?

To be fair I think Berbick was one of the few 80's heavyweights who wasn't on the hard stuff, he was just, in contemporary language, nuts.

Yeah i just assumed he was on the pipe. He sure was a bona fide nutter.

[stujones]

Tyson was supposed to completely over run Bruno.....lewis was supposed to completely outclass him....neither happened. Bruno was the dictionary definition of honourable defeat and I agree with Bennies take....alithough I think Larry beats Bruno at any stage of Frank's career. I think the Holmes that ran McCall close would beat the Bruno that beat him.

Whilst Bruno did very well against two ATGs (albeit not in their prime). His lack of true world class WINS was always telling for me. His power didn't carry through at the highest level

[Ezzard]

Holmes was open to right hands. I would imagine a close fight with Larry stopping Frank on his feet late on. But with the cards about level.

[handsofstone]

Ive been watching a lot of Holmes lately, i'd already seen his fights with Ali, Tyson, Norton, Cooney, Michael Spinks(x2) and Holyfield but Ive recently watched Shavers(x2), Weaver(x2) and LeDoux and tonight I'm gonna watch Berbick

IMO Holmes in his prime stands a chance with any top HW in history, of course theres guys who may beat him but id make him fav against everyone including Ali and Louis, he has the most effective jab of all time

[jamesmcdonnell]

Styles make fights, and Frank's upright rigid style would have played right into Holmes' hands, he would have been circling around Frank peppering him with jabs, right crosses and left hooks.

I actually think that Holmes would have torn him to bits pretty quick, Holmes hit hard and fast with both hands and quick on his feet.

Holmes sadly is underrated by many, mainly due to his proximity to Ali. The losses to spinks hurt his legacy more than they really should, he came up against a style that was just very awkward for him and both were very close fights.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Tyson was supposed to completely over run Bruno.....lewis was supposed to completely outclass him....neither happened. Bruno was the dictionary definition of honourable defeat and I agree with Bennies take....alithough I think Larry beats Bruno at any stage of Frank's career. I think the Holmes that ran McCall close would beat the Bruno that beat him.

Whilst Bruno did very well against two ATGs (albeit not in their prime). His lack of true world class WINS was always telling for me. His power didn't carry through at the highest level

It wasn't that his power didn't carry, he hit like a mack truck, it's just that world class fighters could see the shots coming, Bruno was predictable, jab jab right cross, jab jab right cross, it was always the same pattern, then he would throw the hook if he landed flush. There was no fluidity to his work, no invention, no instinct, just a slavish adherence to way of fighting. Even a tubby and demotivated witherspoon was able to ride out the shots and make him pay.

Frank lacked the mental capacity for greatness. His best win was arguably the title winning effort against McCall, who was a complete basket case.

[bennie]

Ive been watching a lot of Holmes lately, i'd already seen his fights with Ali, Tyson, Norton, Cooney, Michael Spinks(x2) and Holyfield but Ive recently watched Shavers(x2), Weaver(x2) and LeDoux and tonight I'm gonna watch Berbick

IMO Holmes in his prime stands a chance with any top HW in history, of course theres guys who may beat him but id make him fav against everyone including Ali and Louis, he has the most effective jab of all time

Berbick gave him a good fight and snapped a run of eight straight stoppages in world title defences for Holmes.

[THEBUTCH]

Bruno would have been capable of giving it a good go and turning a few heads, but when the fatigue set in Holmes would have taken over.

[stujones]

Tyson was supposed to completely over run Bruno.....lewis was supposed to completely outclass him....neither happened. Bruno was the dictionary definition of honourable defeat and I agree with Bennies take....alithough I think Larry beats Bruno at any stage of Frank's career. I think the Holmes that ran McCall close would beat the Bruno that beat him.

Whilst Bruno did very well against two ATGs (albeit not in their prime). His lack of true world class WINS was always telling for me. His power didn't carry through at the highest level

It wasn't that his power didn't carry, he hit like a mack truck, it's just that world class fighters could see the shots coming, Bruno was predictable, jab jab right cross, jab jab right cross, it was always the same pattern, then he would throw the hook if he landed flush. There was no fluidity to his work, no invention, no instinct, just a slavish adherence to way of fighting. Even a tubby and demotivated witherspoon was able to ride out the shots and make him pay.

Frank lacked the mental capacity for greatness. His best win was arguably the title winning effort against McCall, who was a complete basket case.

Agree, well sort of agree. Everything you say is true although he caught Lewis clean a few times and Lewis wasn't really troubled. I know people mention he hurt Lewis just before getting tagged himself - but Lewis always seemed strong in the legs and in his senses..... Lewis isn't going to go down as the greatest chin in the history of boxing. He caught Tyson square on and flat footed, rocked him for about 5 seconds and the whole country seemed to have a wet dream about it for years. I agree that the greatest could see through him, although perhaps surprisingly, it seemed to take them rounds to come to terms with his predictableness. But IMO he landed enough clean shots against Witherspoon and Lewis but still IMO never looked close to KOing them.

I typically dispute McCall being his best win for the reasons you outline. I really think McCall was having some kind of "melt down" in that fight also - he only seemed to wake up in the last round and he had the whole of Wembley crapping their pants in the last 3 minutes. I think Bruno's wins against the likes of Quick Tillis, Coetzee, Coetzer and WIlliams were his best displays. The Williams fight for me though that Bruno's power of overated as he stepped up. Williams' chin was a big issue, but he took some absolute monster shots from Bruno quite well until eventually wilting late in the fight.