Wilder at Cruiserweight?

[DMWordsmith]

Not sure if this has been brought up before, but I was reading the other thread about Gassiev and Usyk potentially moving up to heavyweight and how Usyk walks around at 220. Wilder just came in at 214 for Ortiz which would be his natural weight, no cutting. If he wanted to try and drop down a division, there is a huge probability he would make 200 for the weigh-in and blow back up to 215ish on fight night. My question is do you see any current cruisers having even a remote chance of defeating Wilder at that weight, and if so, who and why? Personally I think at that weight he would be absolutely lethal. He essentially would be the same size/weight as he normally is by the time he would have rehydrated. Combine that with his height and length advantage and ridiculous punching power relative to any potential opponents at cruiser and it would make him virtually unstoppable. Thoughts?

[jamamb]

remember that 214 is his lowest weight in years and he said it was only because he was sick

you see him around 226-228 far more then 214

he was a cruiser as an amateur though and id think with getting himself low and then cutting he could make it, though it could have a negative effect.

ppl i think also overestimate how hws will do dropping down. i remember back years ago stuff about eddie chambers being a cw beast

[jamamb]

also is usyk 220 in the ring? id think not quite so much, maybe 220 taking it easy between fights

[Like a Boss]

Wilder is 4 inches taller than Usyk and Gassiev.

[DMWordsmith]

I guess it's really a 2-part question - firstly is he capable of making that weight, and secondly, if so can anybody beat him. My answer is yes he could make the weight, and no I don't think any current cruiser has a hope in hell of beating him. He sparks out everybody within 6 rounds. Potentially Usyk could run and box his way to a decision loss, but nobody else even hears the final bell.

[jamamb]

well then its settled

if hes the exact same guy he is at hw, then ya id think hed be at the top no problem

but his 214 he even said was from being sick. he usually is mid 220s. i wonder how long he could actually make cruiser without it taking a toll

[lazboy]

Not sure he could make it. He’s so very lean as it is. Body fat prob very low. But who knows, if Jarrett Hurd can make sww...anything’s possible.

[gilgamesh]

I'm pretty sure even being the #2 Heavyweight in the World pays more on average than being the #1 Cruiserweight in the World.

[Blodhemn]

He'd be ill at CW. Probably anybody in the top 20 would have a solid shot at toppling a sick foe. Odd question. The only reason a HW would move down is if his career is in shambles.

ppl i think also overestimate how hws will do dropping down. i remember back years ago stuff about eddie chambers being a cw beast

Yeah, it's almost like a change in sports. Totally different speed and stamina game at CW. Fast Eddie quickly became Not So Fast Eddie Chambers.

[asdfjkl]

When he joined the Olympics he was still a cruiserweight and he was uncredebly lucky to become one of the bronze medal winners. Just look up the details.

[Heretic]

Wilder could easily make it to cruiser. He could just cut water weight to get close at this point.

One of the big advantages that Wilder has as HW is being faster than the opponents. His massive power is another one. Stamina seems to be third.

If he would move down to cruiser he would suddenly be the slower guy. That power will do him no good if he can't land.

The top cruiser also don't have stamina issues like the over sized heavies. So that advantage is gone too.

Remember that Wilder was being out boxed by very ordinary boxers like Szpilka and Washington. Slow Ortiz also sould have been comfortably ahead at the time of the stoppage.

Usyk and Gassiev would both be favored to beat him on points. Wilder always has a punchers chance thou

[Like a Boss]

I get a laugh when I read a murderous puncher being given only "a puncher's chance."

[Heretic]

I get a laugh when I read a murderous puncher being given only "a puncher's chance."

Well do you see Wilder outpointing Usyk?

I sure as hell don't. He was getting out boxed by Szpilka

So hes chance to win that match is to land something big. I am not that sure he could do it against faster and greatly more skilled boxer.

So is it unreasonable to say that Wilder has punchers chance to win?

[Kalan]

I get a laugh when I read a murderous puncher being given only "a puncher's chance."

There's a problem with this.... Heavyweights who go 220 or lighter have tried this... Herbie Hide... Eddie Chambers... Chris Byrd thought he'd actually go one better and drop to Light Heavyweight... Then he'd really be strong.

What's the problem??? .... You might think "I'll be too big and strong for all those Cruiserweights." .... Really??? When you drop weight you drop strength dude... What's the record of success for boxers dropping down a division?

Sugar Ray Leonard... Emile Griffith... Chris Byrd... Eddie Chambers... Chad Dawson... Donny LaLonde... Roy Jones Jr... The problem lies with the body... If you're a fat athlete like Archie Moore was, you can go up and down in weight... He's about the only athlete in history that I've heard of who could do that successfully... If you're lean and you add muscle your body makes permanent changes that are difficult to undo.

Many boxers have great success going UP in weight... How many have succeeded in coming DOWN in weight???

[Enlightened-One]

Not sure if this has been brought up before, but I was reading the other thread about Gassiev and Usyk potentially moving up to heavyweight and how Usyk walks around at 220. Wilder just came in at 214 for Ortiz which would be his natural weight, no cutting. If he wanted to try and drop down a division, there is a huge probability he would make 200 for the weigh-in and blow back up to 215ish on fight night...

My question is do you see any current cruisers having even a remote chance of defeating Wilder at that weight?

That’s an excellent point and one that I never even considered!

For sure, Deontay Wilder is clearly capable of competing as a cruiserweight, since his average weight for all forty fights is only 220lbs. He made his pro debut at 207lbs and for his most recent outing he was only 214¾lbs.

‘The Bronze Bomber’ has only entered the ring weighing more than 225lbs on seven separate occasions, each time against an opponent that were considered huge underdogs. He’s never weighed 230lbs or more.

In terms of your question though, I don’t expect any of the current crop of cruiserweights to be able to make an immediate jump against (arguably) the heavyweight division’s biggest puncher and expect to emerge victorious. They need time to gradually become acclimatised to enduring the heavier blows of the biggest men in boxing.

So the simple answer is “no”, I don’t expect a cruiserweight to be capable of entering the ring today against Deontay Wilder and be capable of scoring an upset , because they wouldn’t have had time to become accustomed to enduring the sort of heavy blows thrown by one of the biggest punchers in the sport of boxing.

[jamamb]

wilders gotten slightly heavier, 220 may be his career average but hes been heavier then that for 16 of his last 18, the 214 is anamolous and he claimed it was sickness, but he still fought well


how low would he have to get before being able to drain down i wonder, usyk may add weight and walk around between fights at 220 (does he?) but i doubt hes weighing that fight next

[Deleted_Scenes]

Wilder might not be a particularly heavy heavyweight, but at 220-225 he's as lean as they come.

Where on his frame does he cut 25 pounds from? He has near zero body fat, at his fighting weight, and even someone that huge cutting that much in pure water weight is going to leave him like a walking corpse in the ring.

No way Wilder makes 200 safely, and if he tries then every advantage in strength and stamina he usually has, he's suddenly going to be on the bad end of that, as well as damaging his punch resistance and already being a vastly inferior boxer to any of the top cruisers.

Gassiev, Briedis and Dorticos KO a drained Wilder without breaking sweat. Usyk probably does too, or at least wins all 12 rounds with a couple of knockdowns along the way.

People here are grossly underestimating how much Wilder would suffer from cutting weight. It wouldn't be pretty.

[Enlightened-One]

Wilder might not be a particularly heavy heavyweight, but at 220-225 he's as lean as they come.

Where on his frame does he cut 25 pounds from? He has near zero body fat, at his fighting weight, and even someone that huge cutting that much in pure water weight is going to leave him like a walking corpse in the ring.

No way Wilder makes 200 safely, and if he tries then every advantage in strength and stamina he usually has, he's suddenly going to be on the bad end of that, as well as damaging his punch resistance and already being a vastly inferior boxer to any of the top cruisers.

Gassiev, Briedis and Dorticos KO a drained Wilder without breaking sweat. Usyk probably does too, or at least wins all 12 rounds with a couple of knockdowns along the way.

People here are grossly underestimating how much Wilder would suffer from cutting weight. It wouldn't be pretty.

Are you aware of the sort of weights that ripped, lean, muscular welterweights like Lamont Peterson, Errol Spence Jr., Terence Crawford rehydrate to after the official weigh-in? I can name others, such as Victor Ortiz, Marcos Maidana and Antonio Margarito.

What about 154lb-ers like Erislandy Lara, Jermall Charlo and Jarrett Hurd?

I can go to extremes, such as quoting some of the rehydrated weights achieved by middleweights, such as Marco Antonio Rubio, Daniel Jacobs, Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. and Daniel Geale.

Deontay Wilder has weighed 220lb or less for 60% of his bouts. He made his pro debut at 207lbs and for his most recent outing he was only 214¾lbs.

[Deleted_Scenes]

Deontay Wilder has weighed 220lb or less for 60% of his bouts. He made his pro debut at 207lbs and for his most recent outing he was only 214¾lbs.

True, but he hasn't made that weight regularly, since 2012. His most recent weight (by his own admission) was a result of illness.

Over his past 17 fights, he's averaged 225+, and only weighed under 220 twice (the other for Stiverne 1). The 207 he weighed in his debut was nearly a decade ago. 32 year olds don't cut weight anywhere near as easy as 23 year olds. Human physiology just doesn't allow it.

Yes, I am aware of all those names you mention. How many of them are suddenly just starting to try and cut 25 pounds as they're entering their mid-30s? How many of them have FOUGHT in a higher division, then successfully moved back down?

For every name you mention who cut massive amounts when they are/were young, you have a Chad Dawson, or (ironically) a Daniel Geale. Then you've got cases like JCC Jr, who almost certainly did it dirty (and still suffered eventually).

Cutting to a weight you've always fought at, especially in your 20s, is not the same thing as attempting to drop down in weight after entering your 30s.

[Enlightened-One]

Deontay Wilder has weighed 220lb or less for 60% of his bouts. He made his pro debut at 207lbs and for his most recent outing he was only 214¾lbs.

True, but he hasn't made that weight regularly, since 2012. His most recent weight (by his own admission) was a result of illness.

Over his past 17 fights, he's averaged 225+, and only weighed under 220 twice (the other for Stiverne 1). The 207 he weighed in his debut was nearly a decade ago. 32 year olds don't cut weight anywhere near as easy as 23 year olds. Human physiology just doesn't allow it.

Yes, I am aware of all those names you mention. How many of them are suddenly just starting to try and cut 25 pounds as they're entering their mid-30s? How many of them have FOUGHT in a higher division, then successfully moved back down?

For every name you mention who cut massive amounts when they are/were young, you have a Chad Dawson, or (ironically) a Daniel Geale. Then you've got cases like JCC Jr, who almost certainly did it dirty (and still suffered eventually).

Cutting to a weight you've always fought at, especially in your 20s, is not the same thing as attempting to drop down in weight after entering your 30s.

Deontay Wilder seems to lose weight against opponents he deems most threatening. He was 219lbs the first time he faced Bermane Stivverne, when he was attempting to capture the WBC world title.

He gained weight when he faced the likes of Chris Arreola, Artur Szpilka, Johann Duhaupas and Eric Molina, who weren’t considered world-rated fighters when they fought.

He then lost weight for the Gerald Washington bout (222lbs). Weighed 220lbs for the Stiverne rematch and it was no coincidence that he was at his lightest for several years when facing his biggest threat to-date, in the form of Luis Ortiz (at 214lbs).

If we ever saw Wilder face AJ, he’d likely enter the ring weighing 220lbs or less, because he’ll want to have a significant speed advantage (in terms of hand speed and lateral movement) than his much bigger opponent.

[Deleted_Scenes]

Deontay Wilder has weighed 220lb or less for 60% of his bouts. He made his pro debut at 207lbs and for his most recent outing he was only 214¾lbs.

True, but he hasn't made that weight regularly, since 2012. His most recent weight (by his own admission) was a result of illness.

Over his past 17 fights, he's averaged 225+, and only weighed under 220 twice (the other for Stiverne 1). The 207 he weighed in his debut was nearly a decade ago. 32 year olds don't cut weight anywhere near as easy as 23 year olds. Human physiology just doesn't allow it.

Yes, I am aware of all those names you mention. How many of them are suddenly just starting to try and cut 25 pounds as they're entering their mid-30s? How many of them have FOUGHT in a higher division, then successfully moved back down?

For every name you mention who cut massive amounts when they are/were young, you have a Chad Dawson, or (ironically) a Daniel Geale. Then you've got cases like JCC Jr, who almost certainly did it dirty (and still suffered eventually).

Cutting to a weight you've always fought at, especially in your 20s, is not the same thing as attempting to drop down in weight after entering your 30s.

Deontay Wilder seems to lose weight against opponents he deems most threatening. He was 219lbs the first time he faced Bermane Stivverne, when he was attempting to capture the WBC world title.

He gained weight when he faced the likes of Chris Arreola, Artur Szpilka, Johann Duhaupas and Eric Molina, who weren’t considered world-rated fighters when they fought.

He then lost weight for the Gerald Washington bout (222lbs). Weighed 220lbs for the Stiverne rematch and it was no coincidence that he was at his lightest for several years when facing his biggest threat to-date, in the form of Luis Ortiz (at 214lbs).

If we ever saw Wilder face AJ, he’d likely enter the ring weighing 220lbs or less, because he’ll want to have a significant speed advantage (in terms of hand speed and lateral movement) than his much bigger opponent.

In terms of his tactics within the heavyweight division, you may be right. 220 for a Joshua fight is about what I'd expect to see. I don't think that says anything in support of his ability to make 200 in his 30s though.

As much as it will never matter who's right, I stand by what I said on that. Wilder at cruiser would fare no better than Dawson at 168 or Geale at 157. I just don't see it.

[punchoutsb]

Wilder is 4 inches taller than Usyk and Gassiev.

But he's only 2 inches taller than Stipe Drvis.

[oogiebe]

Have you looked at Wilder? He's have to cut off a limb to drop anymore weight.

[punchoutsb]

Have you looked at Wilder? He's have to cut off a limb to drop anymore weight.

He'd be a zombie at CW, but I think he could make the weight fairly easy.

[tiny_acres]

Have you looked at Wilder? He's have to cut off a limb to drop anymore weight.

Dude we think too much alike.
I was just going to ask which arm should he cut off to make the weight