Hatton-Pacquiao.

[VG_Addict]

Why was Pacquiao able to destroy Hatton like he did? Was it because of the problems Hatton had in training? Or was he just tailor-made for Pacquiao?

[SFW]

Hatton made a career out of being an aggressive face first fighter, and he had a lot of wear and tear by the time he faced Manny. All the bad habits, the porous defense, the inability to adjust, it all came out against Manny. Manny was at the peak of his epic run, accurate and powerful as ever. Ricky had no idea what hit him nor any back up plan, his limitations were on display. Though it did take an all time great fighter to capitalize on those limitations, gotta give Ricky credit he fought his ass off to reach the heights he did. Manny was just untouchable at that point.

[jamamb]

heres a question, was there ever a big change in mannys ped protocol or how he was being tested?

because it just seems strange that he was a monster with an amazing workrate destroying and stopping guys, like hatton and cotto then up at 147, but then suddenly his work rate plummets and hes got nowhere near the same sting. he still hasnt f@cking scored a stoppage since cotto almost a decade ago!

seems like the type of drop youd expect when a guy goes off the stuff, but what wouldve triggered that

[Lackeos]

heres a question, was there ever a big change in mannys ped protocol or how he was being tested?

because it just seems strange that he was a monster with an amazing workrate destroying and stopping guys, like hatton and cotto then up at 147, but then suddenly his work rate plummets and hes got nowhere near the same sting. he still hasnt f@cking scored a stoppage since cotto almost a decade ago!

seems like the type of drop youd expect when a guy goes off the stuff, but what wouldve triggered that

No. Get your mind out of the PED red herring.

Pacquiao had a shoulder issue that he was basically coping with and attempting to keep hidden until he collected a check with Mayweather, after which time he finally got surgery for it. He obviously didn't want it to interfere with how much he made against Mayweather. Nor did he want Mayweather to exploit the injury via excessive wrestling, tugging at the arm, punching the arm, etc. There is not precise proof for when it started, but it is thought that it started when his KO output dropped in 2010.

Apart from that, Pacquiao was also fighting a lot of tanks. Josh Clottey has never been stopped by anyone. Margarito was legendary for his chin. Mosley was only stopped once, when he was already 42. JMM has never been stopped (Pac fought him twice after Cotto). Bradley has never been stopped (Pac fought him 3 times after Cotto). Mayweather has never been stopped. Vargas has never been stopped. Horn has never been stopped. I think the jury is still out as to whether Vargas and Horn are as durable as these other tanks. The only fighters who Pacquiao really looks bad for failing to KO are Algieri and Rios.

Also, it's been observed that Pacquiao had a lot of compassion in not finishing off Margarito. He has shown a lack of killer instinct in the past 8 years, and doesn't seem to actually want to hurt his opponents.

Not to mention the fact that you're overlooking the obvious weight factor. Pacquiao's best weight was super featherweight, he was about 10 pounds lighter than a traditional welterweight, and drained virtually no weight to make the same day weigh-ins when he competed at 147. Apart from Cotto and DLH, Pacquiao didn't KO anybody above the 140-pound limit (and they were both pretty weight-drained). It shouldnt' be very shocking that a super featherweight wasn't scoring a lot of KO's when he competed 3 divisions above his best weight. Errol Spence and Keith Thurman probably wouldn't score a lot of KO's if they moved-up 3 divisions to 168. Golovkin probably wouldn't score a lot of KO's if he moved-up 3 divisions to cruiserweight. Lomachenko probably wouldn't score may kO's if he moved-up 3 divisions to welterweight.

[Enlightened-One]

Manny Pacquiao used to pretend that the reason why he wouldn't participate in blood based drug testing was due to his so-called fear of needles, yet he enjoyed getting a load of tattoos.

He even rejected an opportunity to face Floyd Mayweather Jr., because he didn't want to undergo blood based drug testing.

His performance levels dipped when he finally agreed to undergo blood based PED tests for his bouts. Some say this was merely a coincidence.

[Thomastearns]

Why was Pacquiao able to destroy Hatton like he did? Was it because of the problems Hatton had in training? Or was he just tailor-made for Pacquiao?

Basically it was a Hagler-Hearns / Pacquiao-Marquez 4 type of war, someone had to go down.

The fight came at a bad time for Ricky, coming off a recent loss and problems outside the ring as well.

As far as the drugs allegations go,we can never know for sure as testing wasn't though enough. However whatever the suspicions there are against Pacquiao, there are far greater ones against others such as Marquez and Mayweather Jr.

To protect the legacy of the sport we need 24/7 random testing.

[Kalan]

Manny Pacquiao used to pretend that the reason why he wouldn't participate in blood based drug testing was due to his so-called fear of needles, yet he enjoyed getting a load of tattoos.

He even rejected an opportunity to face Floyd Mayweather Jr., because he didn't want to undergo blood based drug testing.

His performance levels dipped when he finally agreed to undergo blood based PED tests for his bouts. Some say this was merely a coincidence.

The reason Pacquiao won the PED lawsuit settlements is because Floyd, Floyd Sr, De La Hoya, and Golden Boy Promotions put damaging innuendo and lies out there. If they didn't settle out of court and apologize to Pacquiao, they were risking massive fines in the 8 figures. Pacquiao won all of his PED lawsuits against those guys and they paid him millions.

Pacquiao was open to be PED tested from the beginning... Floyd kept changing what he wanted for the PED testing regimen. Floyd kept moving the goal posts... Finally Pacquiao said, "I'll take any tests Floyd wants.. I will take tests between rounds standing on my head if that's what Floyd wants.. But Mayweather is a coward.. He doesn't want to fight..." Then it was the money issue.. For years the money wasn't right for Floyd...

Then when Floyd heard that Pacquiao was having severe rotator cuff issues -- and that's why Pac wasn't punching effectively and never had any KO wins -- that's when Floyd wanted to setup a fight with Pacquiao.

[BitPlayer]

Lol, every sport with money is full of doping..

[Kalan]

No they aren't...

PED's were a problem in the 70's and even later... But now testing is almost universal.. You WILL get caught.

[Enlightened-One]

Manny Pacquiao used to pretend that the reason why he wouldn't participate in blood based drug testing was due to his so-called fear of needles, yet he enjoyed getting a load of tattoos.

He even rejected an opportunity to face Floyd Mayweather Jr., because he didn't want to undergo blood based drug testing.

His performance levels dipped when he finally agreed to undergo blood based PED tests for his bouts. Some say this was merely a coincidence.

The reason Pacquiao won the PED lawsuit settlements is because Floyd, Floyd Sr, De La Hoya, and Golden Boy Promotions put damaging innuendo and lies out there. If they didn't settle out of court and apologize to Pacquiao, they were risking massive fines in the 8 figures. Pacquiao won all of his PED lawsuits against those guys and they paid him millions.

Pacquiao was open to be PED tested from the beginning... Floyd kept changing what he wanted for the PED testing regimen. Floyd kept moving the goal posts... Finally Pacquiao said, "I'll take any tests Floyd wants.. I will take tests between rounds standing on my head if that's what Floyd wants.. But Mayweather is a coward.. He doesn't want to fight..." Then it was the money issue.. For years the money wasn't right for Floyd...

Then when Floyd heard that Pacquiao was having severe rotator cuff issues -- and that's why Pac wasn't punching effectively and never had any KO wins -- that's when Floyd wanted to setup a fight with Pacquiao.

I've seen videos of Manny stating that he didn't want to undergo blood based drug testing.

For sure, Team Mayweather did make several slanderous claims that they couldn't substantiate, but when Pacquiao filed a lawsuit, part of the reason why he ended up dropping it, was because he didn't want to disclose pertinent information.

I don't know if Manny was clean or not, but his behaviour was dubious at times.

[SenorPipino]

Bigger guys. Bigger, stronger bodies.

That's probably the only reason Pacquiao hasn't been a KO machine at 147.

He ran over a weight-depleted, end of the road De La Hoya at 147.

A good stoppage of Cotto followed, but Pac hit him 1000 times and couldn't halt him until there was about 1 minute left in the fight.

But everyone here always says that Pacquiao is a little guy and his best weight is 140 (justifying a potential Lomachenko fight at super lightweight).

So if that's true, it makes sense that he hasn't overpowered anyone at 147 for nearly 9 years.

Bigger guys takes better shots. It's that simple. Why always look for drugs as the answer for everything?

The Hatton fight was the signature KO of Pacquiao's career. Highlight reel stuff. Almost as beautiful a finish as Leonard's sweet destruction of Dave Boy Green.

He was devastating at that weight and age. Sure he was helped by Hatton's aggressive, face first style, but you never saw a better Pacquiao before or since.

[chinarich]

I’m not saying Hatton would have won had they met earlier but Ricky’s out of the ring lifestyle had caught up with him by then and his come forward, take punches to land them style was never suited to longevity...

[IKSRTFO]

heres a question, was there ever a big change in mannys ped protocol or how he was being tested?

because it just seems strange that he was a monster with an amazing workrate destroying and stopping guys, like hatton and cotto then up at 147, but then suddenly his work rate plummets and hes got nowhere near the same sting. he still hasnt f@cking scored a stoppage since cotto almost a decade ago!

seems like the type of drop youd expect when a guy goes off the stuff, but what wouldve triggered that

He's never failed a drug test. Can't say the same thing for Canelo.

[IKSRTFO]

Manny Pacquiao used to pretend that the reason why he wouldn't participate in blood based drug testing was due to his so-called fear of needles, yet he enjoyed getting a load of tattoos.

He even rejected an opportunity to face Floyd Mayweather Jr., because he didn't want to undergo blood based drug testing.

His performance levels dipped when he finally agreed to undergo blood based PED tests for his bouts. Some say this was merely a coincidence.

As stated before, he started fighting bigger guys, none of them with weak chins. Of the guys he didn't stop, only Margarito was stopped before. Why would anyone expect or even hold against Pacquiao for not stopping Bradley?

[Wales]

Why was Pacquiao able to destroy Hatton like he did? Was it because of the problems Hatton had in training? Or was he just tailor-made for Pacquiao?

At the time Pacquio was electric. He’d just completely smoked De La Hoya and Diaz and would go on to hammer Cotto Margarito and Mosley. Brutally.

Hatton had never beaten a top 10 ranked fighter before Tszyu, and after that only beat B level guys like Urango Collazo Castillo Mallinaggi and Lazcano.

In run up to Pacquiao he had personal problems in relation to the court case in relation to his own father ripping him off resullting in him and lifelong friend and trainer Billy Graham falling out. He was trained by Mayweather who’s style of hard training ever day didn’t suit him; and I believe Mayweather did the whole camp preparing fior an orthodox fighter and not a southpaw.

Ricky wasn’t good enough, and stacked the odds further in Pacquiaos favour with his poor choices

Hatton also succumbed to drink and drugs around that time

[oogiebe]

Why was Pacquiao able to destroy Hatton like he did? Was it because of the problems Hatton had in training? Or was he just tailor-made for Pacquiao?

At the time Pacquio was electric. He’d just completely smoked De La Hoya and Diaz and would go on to hammer Cotto Margarito and Mosley. Brutally.

Hatton had never beaten a top 10 ranked fighter before Tszyu, and after that only beat B level guys like Urango Collazo Castillo Mallinaggi and Lazcano.

In run up to Pacquiao he had personal problems in relation to the court case in relation to his own father ripping him off resullting in him and lifelong friend and trainer Billy Graham falling out. He was trained by Mayweather who’s style of hard training ever day didn’t suit him; and I believe Mayweather did the whole camp preparing fior an orthodox fighter and not a southpaw.

Ricky wasn’t good enough, and stacked the odds further in Pacquiaos favour with his poor choices

Hatton also succumbed to drink and drugs around that time

Great post!

[jpspice]

Hatton made a career out of being an aggressive face first fighter, and he had a lot of wear and tear by the time he faced Manny. All the bad habits, the porous defense, the inability to adjust, it all came out against Manny. Manny was at the peak of his epic run, accurate and powerful as ever. Ricky had no idea what hit him nor any back up plan, his limitations were on display. Though it did take an all time great fighter to capitalize on those limitations, gotta give Ricky credit he fought his ass off to reach the heights he did. Manny was just untouchable at that point.

Well put.

[caldo2025]

Manny Pacquiao used to pretend that the reason why he wouldn't participate in blood based drug testing was due to his so-called fear of needles, yet he enjoyed getting a load of tattoos.

He even rejected an opportunity to face Floyd Mayweather Jr., because he didn't want to undergo blood based drug testing.

His performance levels dipped when he finally agreed to undergo blood based PED tests for his bouts. Some say this was merely a coincidence.

The reason Pacquiao won the PED lawsuit settlements is because Floyd, Floyd Sr, De La Hoya, and Golden Boy Promotions put damaging innuendo and lies out there. If they didn't settle out of court and apologize to Pacquiao, they were risking massive fines in the 8 figures. Pacquiao won all of his PED lawsuits against those guys and they paid him millions.

Pacquiao was open to be PED tested from the beginning... Floyd kept changing what he wanted for the PED testing regimen. Floyd kept moving the goal posts... Finally Pacquiao said, "I'll take any tests Floyd wants.. I will take tests between rounds standing on my head if that's what Floyd wants.. But Mayweather is a coward.. He doesn't want to fight..." Then it was the money issue.. For years the money wasn't right for Floyd...

Then when Floyd heard that Pacquiao was having severe rotator cuff issues -- and that's why Pac wasn't punching effectively and never had any KO wins -- that's when Floyd wanted to setup a fight with Pacquiao.

I've seen videos of Manny stating that he didn't want to undergo blood based drug testing.

For sure, Team Mayweather did make several slanderous claims that they couldn't substantiate, but when Pacquiao filed a lawsuit, part of the reason why he ended up dropping it, was because he didn't want to disclose pertinent information.

I don't know if Manny was clean or not, but his behaviour was dubious at times.

In my book, you are a clean boxer when you can take the richest guys in the sport to court after they publicly accuse you of taking PEDs and win (settling is winning). That means that The Mayweathers and Golden Boy couldn't find one bit of proof of Manny taking them. Don't tell me that they didn't have the best people out there looking for the smoking gun.

People talk about the lack of KO's later in Manny's career and the obvious answer is because of Manny was fighting the best possible opponent out there. Hatton, is not even close to the level I'm talking about.

Floyd's illegal IV the night before his fight with Manny is way more dubious than anything you could manufacture on Manny.

[vidal]

Hatton made a career out of being an aggressive face first fighter, and he had a lot of wear and tear by the time he faced Manny. All the bad habits, the porous defense, the inability to adjust, it all came out against Manny. Manny was at the peak of his epic run, accurate and powerful as ever. Ricky had no idea what hit him nor any back up plan, his limitations were on display. Though it did take an all time great fighter to capitalize on those limitations, gotta give Ricky credit he fought his ass off to reach the heights he did. Manny was just untouchable at that point.

Well put.

agreed.

[Enlightened-One]

The reason Pacquiao won the PED lawsuit settlements is because Floyd, Floyd Sr, De La Hoya, and Golden Boy Promotions put damaging innuendo and lies out there. If they didn't settle out of court and apologize to Pacquiao, they were risking massive fines in the 8 figures. Pacquiao won all of his PED lawsuits against those guys and they paid him millions.

Pacquiao was open to be PED tested from the beginning... Floyd kept changing what he wanted for the PED testing regimen. Floyd kept moving the goal posts... Finally Pacquiao said, "I'll take any tests Floyd wants.. I will take tests between rounds standing on my head if that's what Floyd wants.. But Mayweather is a coward.. He doesn't want to fight..." Then it was the money issue.. For years the money wasn't right for Floyd...

Then when Floyd heard that Pacquiao was having severe rotator cuff issues -- and that's why Pac wasn't punching effectively and never had any KO wins -- that's when Floyd wanted to setup a fight with Pacquiao.

I've seen videos of Manny stating that he didn't want to undergo blood based drug testing.

For sure, Team Mayweather did make several slanderous claims that they couldn't substantiate, but when Pacquiao filed a lawsuit, part of the reason why he ended up dropping it, was because he didn't want to disclose pertinent information.

I don't know if Manny was clean or not, but his behaviour was dubious at times.

In my book, you are a clean boxer when you can take the richest guys in the sport to court after they publicly accuse you of taking PEDs and win (settling is winning). That means that The Mayweathers and Golden Boy couldn't find one bit of proof of Manny taking them. Don't tell me that they didn't have the best people out there looking for the smoking gun.

People talk about the lack of KO's later in Manny's career and the obvious answer is because of Manny was fighting the best possible opponent out there. Hatton, is not even close to the level I'm talking about.

Floyd's illegal IV the night before his fight with Manny is way more dubious than anything you could manufacture on Manny.

There are a few dodgy “coincidences” relating to Manny’s penchant to decline to undergo random blood-based PED testing.

He even once turned down a guaranteed opportunity to face Floyd Mayweather Jr., with the financials of that bout having already been agreed, due to not wanting to undergo PED testing.

Manny Pacquiao refused to undergo VADA drug testing for his two immediate bouts following Lamont Peterson and Andre Berto’s failed tests in 2012 (Bradley I & Marquez III)

Alex Ariza worked with Pacquiao for the Filipino’s third bout against Marquez, where VADA wasn’t involved. I'm sure he worked with him for the Bradley fight also.

The Filipino then took a one year hiatus and also stopped working with Alex Ariza.

When Pacquiao made his ring return and competed in his only bout in 2013, it was against Brandon Rios, with ‘Bam Bam’ employing the services of Alex Ariza.

This might have been pure coincidence, but Team Pacquiao then requested that both fighters undergo VADA testing, with Rios subsequently failing one or two of their tests due to having methylhexanamine in his system.

This might have been a “coincidence”, but it does make you consider the reason why many members of the media thought that Pacquiao’s performance levels dipped from the Brandon Rios bout until the remainder of his career.

[caldo2025]

I've seen videos of Manny stating that he didn't want to undergo blood based drug testing.

For sure, Team Mayweather did make several slanderous claims that they couldn't substantiate, but when Pacquiao filed a lawsuit, part of the reason why he ended up dropping it, was because he didn't want to disclose pertinent information.

I don't know if Manny was clean or not, but his behaviour was dubious at times.

In my book, you are a clean boxer when you can take the richest guys in the sport to court after they publicly accuse you of taking PEDs and win (settling is winning). That means that The Mayweathers and Golden Boy couldn't find one bit of proof of Manny taking them. Don't tell me that they didn't have the best people out there looking for the smoking gun.

People talk about the lack of KO's later in Manny's career and the obvious answer is because of Manny was fighting the best possible opponent out there. Hatton, is not even close to the level I'm talking about.

Floyd's illegal IV the night before his fight with Manny is way more dubious than anything you could manufacture on Manny.

There are a few dodgy “coincidences” relating to Manny’s penchant to decline to undergo random blood-based PED testing.

He even once turned down a guaranteed opportunity to face Floyd Mayweather Jr., with the financials of that bout having already been agreed, due to not wanting to undergo PED testing.

Manny Pacquiao refused to undergo VADA drug testing for his two immediate bouts following Lamont Peterson and Andre Berto’s failed tests in 2012 (Bradley I & Marquez III)

Alex Ariza worked with Pacquiao for the Filipino’s third bout against Marquez, where VADA wasn’t involved. I'm sure he worked with him for the Bradley fight also.

The Filipino then took a one year hiatus and also stopped working with Alex Ariza.

When Pacquiao made his ring return and competed in his only bout in 2013, it was against Brandon Rios, with ‘Bam Bam’ employing the services of Alex Ariza.

This might have been pure coincidence, but Team Pacquiao then requested that both fighters undergo VADA testing, with Rios subsequently failing one or two of their tests due to having methylhexanamine in his system.

This might have been a “coincidence”, but it does make you consider the reason why many members of the media thought that Pacquiao’s performance levels dipped from the Brandon Rios bout until the remainder of his career.

When all that stuff was going down with Manny/Roach and Ariza, Ariza would have come out and spilled the beans on Manny instead he gave Roach a girl kick. He could have ruined both Roach and Manny and he didn't. He was plenty mad too so if he had something in his holster, he would have pulled it i think.

I think the other instances just come down to the way Floyd and Manny just didn't want to do what anyone told them. I personally wouldn't want to have my blood drawn a day before or days before a big fight. I've had it drawn a million times and I feel like hell for a day or two. Then imagine Floyd being able to dictate when it's drawn because you know Floyd had all of these outfits in his back pocket. That's why he denied Manny a freaking Lidocaine shot prior to their fight only to be caught with an IV night before the fight.

The best part about this is that the whole reason that Floyd ended up settling with Manny is because Manny's Attorneys served Floyd's representation with subpoenas on Floyd, Mayweather Productions, Golden Boy and USADA calling on them to produce Floyd's testing documents from his fights with Mosely, Ortiz and Cotto. Apparently, his A sample failed all 3 of those fights but USADA gave Floyd a waiver so that his B samples would never be tested. This subpoena would have made it all common knowledge and Floyd would have been dealing with a Canelo like meltdown. It's this kind of shiit that kills me.

Floyd settles and it all goes away. He's made around 300m since then and we'll see what Canelo ends up doing with his career but my guess is that he'll never be able to shake this. He'll always be dirty.

There's nothing like this stuff on Manny because he's never been a darling of Vegas. He never had these institutions on the payroll. I mean, come on. Floyd is 41 years old. 41 year old boxers shouldn't be diced up and faster than ever like Floyd. It's common sense. Remember how old your Dad looked when he was 41? Exactly.

[happyNY18]

Hatton got Pacman at the wrong time. Pac at that moment was probably in his prime - he was a little more polished as a fighter by then than he was in his bouts with JMM & morales, and the 140 weight class was probably his ideal weight where he could make best use of his size without compromising much reflexes.

Pity to see this thread hijacked by the same old clowns with unsubstantiated PED allegations. I'm yet to hear of a substance Pac is supposed to have taken? Magic beans?

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

I've seen videos of Manny stating that he didn't want to undergo blood based drug testing.

For sure, Team Mayweather did make several slanderous claims that they couldn't substantiate, but when Pacquiao filed a lawsuit, part of the reason why he ended up dropping it, was because he didn't want to disclose pertinent information.

I don't know if Manny was clean or not, but his behaviour was dubious at times.

- My precious Outed Frightened One, and where is your teletubby Teensy in support of you?

I guess your teensy weensy panties twisted up so tightsy as to impugn your boxing expertise currently in a shot clubfighter declination. They settled out of court with the terms not made public, but clearly Manny whooped Team TUE to give them their first loss with a public mea culpa apology by Team TUE. I reckon an unstated piddly $100,000 payment to Manny as he also got from GoldenBoy would be a windfall for most Americans, but nothing given the wealth of the litigants. They didn't sue your broke candy ass for slander for obvious broke ass reasons, but they had to publicly eat...!

I'd guess from the distant odeur de merde de taureau emanating from yourself, a hot shower and change of duds and upgrade of internet protocol would be the first order of your rehabilitation.

http://www.espn.com/boxing/story/_/id/8 ... ation-case

[Badhusker]

Why was Pacquiao able to destroy Hatton like he did? Was it because of the problems Hatton had in training? Or was he just tailor-made for Pacquiao?

Why dig this crap up now? This section is called the current scene. Whatever. He caught him with a punch that Hatton didn't see, and Hatton got KO'd. If that would n't have happened at that point, it may have been a very competitive fight. It happens in boxing.

There were things about Hatton's shape that were bad for him, losing 40 pounds in a short time, and having to run in the hot sun the day of the weigh in. All that didn't matter though when you get caught like that.

[Yuzo]

Apart from that, Pacquiao was also fighting a lot of tanks. Josh Clottey has never been stopped by anyone. Margarito was legendary for his chin. Mosley was only stopped once, when he was already 42. JMM has never been stopped (Pac fought him twice after Cotto). Bradley has never been stopped (Pac fought him 3 times after Cotto). Mayweather has never been stopped. Vargas has never been stopped. Horn has never been stopped. I think the jury is still out as to whether Vargas and Horn are as durable as these other tanks. The only fighters who Pacquiao really looks bad for failing to KO are Algieri and Rios.

and nobody ever wanted to punch with pacquiao. cause thats how pacquiao hurts guys. those guys ran or covered up. they were taking turns. my turn. now go its your turn. nobody ever wanted to punch with pacquiao at the same time.