Is Bellew brave to fight Usyk-Gassiev winner in 2018 ?

ValMar · Post by **ValMar** » 11 May 2018, 13:04

What do you think ? Defeating Usyk-Gassiev winner he would become the undisputed CW champion, and earn very decent sum. Is he really brave to do this ?

DrDuke · Post by **DrDuke** » 11 May 2018, 13:13

Both of them apparently move to the heavyweights and actually Bellew can be a good start of that run for both of them.

Enlightened-One · Post by **Enlightened-One** » 11 May 2018, 14:11

Tony Bellew is unlikely to be willing to face the winner of the WBSS cruiserweight tournament unless he’s paid handsomely to do so and I can’t see that happening, since neither Oleksandr Usyk nor Murat Gassiev are big revenue generators.

In terms of Tony Bellew’s “bravery”, isn’t it fúckíng appallingly stupid to question his courage? Seriously!?!?

Counter-puncher · Post by **Counter-puncher** » 11 May 2018, 14:15

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑11 May 2018, 14:11

In terms of Tony Bellew’s “bravery”, isn’t it fúckíng appallingly stupid to question his courage? Seriously!?!?

Has he had the courage to face a top cruiserweight?

Does facing a David Haye who Bellew himself described before their first contest as a shot fighter prove courage?

Have you a good example of Bellews courage?

Maybe when he shat himself and quit against adonis?

Enlightened-One · Post by **Enlightened-One** » 11 May 2018, 14:32

Counter-puncher wrote: ↑11 May 2018, 14:15
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑11 May 2018, 14:11

In terms of Tony Bellew’s “bravery”, isn’t it fúckíng appallingly stupid to question his courage? Seriously!?!?
Has he had the courage to face a top cruiserweight?

Does facing a David Haye who Bellew himself described before their first contest as a shot fighter prove courage?

Have you a good example of Bellews courage?

Maybe when he shat himself and quit against adonis?

Tony Bellew was the underdog when he faced: Ilunga Makabu (rated 5th at the time by The RING, when the Brit was rated 9th) in 2016; once again in 2013 when he faced Adonis Stevenson (The RING champion & top dog at 175lbs); against Nathan Cleverly in 2011 (rated 5th by The RING) and again in their rematch of 2014; he was also the underdog in both bouts against David Haye.

This forum is stupid! People complain about “ducking” and “cherry picking”, but when a fighter like Tony Bellew continuously engages in bouts where he’s a big underdog, the same morons start accusing him of lacking “bravery” or being a "coward". FFS!

ValMar · Post by **ValMar** » 11 May 2018, 15:06

I can not imagine young Holyfield moving at HW, avoiding to face Tyson.
Bellew is not willing to face Joshua or Wilder.
Enough for me, and I don't want to argue and/or offend anyone.

AQKHAN · Post by **AQKHAN** » 11 May 2018, 15:15

Why not. I mean what is actually wrong with him. he is brave and able enough to fight on his own,
Kristina Sunshine Jung http://sensepsychology.com/kristinia-su ... -daughter/

Enlightened-One · Post by **Enlightened-One** » 11 May 2018, 15:17

Holyfield and Tyson were about the same size.

Bellew is much smaller than Joshua and Wilder. The Brit has also spent most of his career campaigning at 175lbs.

Your logic is highly-flawed.

Thomastearns · Post by **Thomastearns** » 11 May 2018, 15:33

No fighter who steps into a boxing ring can be called a coward. Each and every time they risk a world of hurt as they fight for their future. Each fight risks further neurological damage and brain plasticity does not improve with age.

In fact most elite boxers are almost always too brave for their own good and end up taking too much punishment for too long. Sometimes neither the referee nor their corner come to the rescue soon enough.

The major consideration is always risk v reward. If the reward is big enough then any professional boxer will consider risking any resonable challenge. Tony Bellew will be considering his future options wisely as we hope that David Haye will.

When Lennox Lewis pulled out of the rematch with Vitali Klitschko it was, according to Emanuel Steward, because his wife didn't want him to risk his health in a fight he didn't need at that point in his career. It was the rematch or her, he chose her despite the alleged vastness of the money offered.

lazboy · Post by **lazboy** » 11 May 2018, 21:14

Not sure I understand all the Bellew hate I’ve read lately. Appreciate he is loud...but he generally seems to wear his heart on his sleeve. Hes like the Pauline mallonagi of Britain and he’s conducted himself well post his Haye victories. He’s brave enough if the moneys right, he’s a fighter.

Mexi-Box · Post by **Mexi-Box** » 11 May 2018, 21:20

Seriously, the guy fought Makabu and Haye twice. Both times he was a massive underdog. He's brave already.

SenorPipino · Post by **SenorPipino** » 11 May 2018, 22:17

Bellew's a big guy now. A definite heavyweight.

Are we to assume that he might tremble and wet his pants at the thought of facing cruiserweights Usyk or Gassiev?

Not very likely.

He's a professional and the money would have to be quite satisfactory, but if it was, I don't see Bellew hesitating. Not for a second.

jamamb · Post by **jamamb** » 11 May 2018, 22:20

hes not really a big guy, i think gassiev and usyk are bigger actually, they look much more well built at cruiser then he did and are about the same height with longer reaches by 2-4 inches. bellew was soft even at cruiser and just got softer moving up to hw. not a big frame at all, if he were he wouldnt have been boxing at 175 as a 31 year old.

usyk actually boxed at shw in the world series of boxing, beating joe joyce and a 3x world amateur champ

Ruthless-RKO · Post by **Ruthless-RKO** » 12 May 2018, 04:07

SenorPipino wrote: ↑11 May 2018, 22:17 Bellew's a big guy now. A definite heavyweight.

Are we to assume that he might tremble and wet his pants at the thought of facing cruiserweights Usyk or Gassiev?

Not very likely.

He's a professional and the money would have to be quite satisfactory, but if it was, I don't see Bellew hesitating. Not for a second.

He'd happily drop to 200 again for the right fight (A. Ward)

Ruthless-RKO · Post by **Ruthless-RKO** » 12 May 2018, 04:12

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑11 May 2018, 14:11 Tony Bellew is unlikely to be willing to face the winner of the WBSS cruiserweight tournament unless he’s paid handsomely to do so and I can’t see that happening, since neither Oleksandr Usyk nor Murat Gassiev are big revenue generators.

As undisputed champions, there will be more appeal. Also, undoubtedly, Bellew has an increased fanbase in the UK following his 2 wins over Haye. He's still annoying, but he has a huge underdog story behind him as you mentioned above somewhere.

Matchroom can easily sell the fight. They would sell the crap out of it, because if Bellew wins, he's undisputed cruiserweight champion. Usyk maybe more than Gassiev. Possibly. May not be the biggest sell, but surely a sell.

SenorPipino · Post by **SenorPipino** » 12 May 2018, 06:41

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑12 May 2018, 04:07
SenorPipino wrote: ↑11 May 2018, 22:17 Bellew's a big guy now. A definite heavyweight.

Are we to assume that he might tremble and wet his pants at the thought of facing cruiserweights Usyk or Gassiev?

Not very likely.

He's a professional and the money would have to be quite satisfactory, but if it was, I don't see Bellew hesitating. Not for a second.
He'd happily drop to 200 again for the right fight (A. Ward)

I just don't see Bellew dropping 15 lbs. or so to fight either of those guys.

He's gained traction in the much more lucrative heavyweight division by twice beating a big name.

It doesn't seem to make financial sense to risk his newly acquired status by fighting a cruiserweight.

Maybe if Usyk or Gassiev wanted to test the heavyweight waters, Bellew would happily oblige. But not at cruiser.

A Ward fight at 200 is a much different proposition because of the meaty purse that such a fight offers.

That bout could mean well over $5 million for Bellew--especially with American money kicked in---so the Brit would surely take it.

Counter-puncher · Post by **Counter-puncher** » 12 May 2018, 06:47

makubu is stated as proof Bellew is a risk-taker who will take tough fights

i don't know Makubu's record well enough, can anyone tell me does he have a single win that suggests he is some kind of proven beast at cruiserweight?

I can't think of a single win that makes me think, 'hmmm shit yeah Usyk and Gassiev are real lucky they never ran into this Makubu beast'.

jamamb · Post by **jamamb** » 12 May 2018, 07:06

to meet wards purse demands im not sure thered be more left for bellew then there would be vs the wbss winner

Ruthless-RKO · Post by **Ruthless-RKO** » 12 May 2018, 07:13

Counter-puncher wrote: ↑12 May 2018, 06:47 makubu is stated as proof Bellew is a risk-taker who will take tough fights

i don't know Makubu's record well enough, can anyone tell me does he have a single win that suggests he is some kind of proven beast at cruiserweight?

I can't think of a single win that makes me think, 'hmmm poo yeah Usyk and Gassiev are real lucky they never ran into this Makubu beast'.

Makabu just had a 'good record' IMO. he was mandatory for Drozd's WBC belt, obviously Drozd was injured, that's why Bellew was offered a chance. He took it.

Makabu's record without looking, looks as good Mark de Mori's record before he fought Haye.

ValMar · Post by **ValMar** » 12 May 2018, 07:20

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑12 May 2018, 04:12
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑11 May 2018, 14:11 Tony Bellew is unlikely to be willing to face the winner of the WBSS cruiserweight tournament unless he’s paid handsomely to do so and I can’t see that happening, since neither Oleksandr Usyk nor Murat Gassiev are big revenue generators.
As undisputed champions, there will be more appeal. Also, undoubtedly, Bellew has an increased fanbase in the UK following his 2 wins over Haye. He's still annoying, but he has a huge underdog story behind him as you mentioned above somewhere.

Matchroom can easily sell the fight. They would sell the crap out of it, because if Bellew wins, he's undisputed cruiserweight champion. Usyk maybe more than Gassiev. Possibly. May not be the biggest sell, but surely a sell.

An excellent post !

KiwiRider · Post by **KiwiRider** » 12 May 2018, 07:23

jamamb wrote: ↑11 May 2018, 22:20 hes not really a big guy, i think gassiev and usyk are bigger actually, they look much more well built at cruiser then he did and are about the same height with longer reaches by 2-4 inches. bellew was soft even at cruiser and just got softer moving up to hw. not a big frame at all, if he were he wouldnt have been boxing at 175 as a 31 year old.

usyk actually boxed at shw in the world series of boxing, beating joe joyce and a 3x world amateur champ

Going by that fight, Usyk would splatter Bellew. He is in a different league IMO

ValMar · Post by **ValMar** » 12 May 2018, 08:02

I don't think Bellew is a coward in everyday life, of course he is not.
Even, I think his shameful behaviour ,before the fight(s) again Haye is acting, his way to attract some new fans.
So, it might be a "false hatred", and I think it was.
I admit I expected Bellew's disaster in both fights against Haye, and I was wrong.
Really, I can not realise one thing, he moved up at HW, but he claimed he was not intersted to face the best (Joshua and Wilder). Honestly, it is not the genuine champion's way. Noone can convince me the opposite. Should I mention Holyfild again, or better M. Spinks ?

Last, but not least, I am fed up of internet warriors. I do know a lot about courage, and I have a lot of life experience (unfortunately), of course, this is a boxing forum and I don't want to speak/write about my life.

ewenhay · Post by **ewenhay** » 12 May 2018, 08:10

I wouldn't describe a boxer who has previously campaigned at cruiserweight who went up to heavyweight for a couple of fights as being brave to go back to cruiserweight to fight the wbss winner.

Would be an interesting fight. Hope it happens

apollo creed · Post by **apollo creed** » 12 May 2018, 08:19

No, too risky. Like it or not Haye was shot but still relevant due his name. I think Bellew would try to fight Lebedev or Joseph Parker.

ewenhay · Post by **ewenhay** » 12 May 2018, 08:30

apollo creed wrote: ↑12 May 2018, 08:19 No, too risky. Like it or not Haye was shot but still relevant due his name. I think Bellew would try to fight Lebedev or Joseph Parker.

He doesn't want to fight Wilder or Joshua so I think he's only after one more big money fight hence the calling out of Ward. Would the fight against the winner of the wbss be a lucrative one? If so then it makes sense as he's not going to win a belt at heavyweight