ATG p4p lomachenko
Posted: 15 May 2018, 16:28
is he top ten material?
Quite possibly. I've never seen better footwork from anybody...ever.
He'd surely already rank as one of the very best Amateurs of all time.
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Re: ATG p4p lomachenko
Posted: 15 May 2018, 16:29
Re: ATG p4p lomachenko
Posted: 15 May 2018, 16:29
nope, not even close to top 10 p4p ever
Re: ATG p4p lomachenko
Posted: 15 May 2018, 16:32
Longevity. The test of time. That determines an ATG.
Even the question of potential ATG status should never be raised when a fighter only has 13 pro bouts.
Even the question of potential ATG status should never be raised when a fighter only has 13 pro bouts.
Re: ATG p4p lomachenko
Posted: 15 May 2018, 16:37
so when would you ask for potentialSenorPipino wrote: ↑15 May 2018, 16:32 Longevity. The test of time. That determines an ATG.
Even the question of potential ATG status should never be raised when a fighter only has 13 pro bouts.
ATG status if not before he achieved it?
Re: ATG p4p lomachenko
Posted: 15 May 2018, 16:39
Not yet, the question was "Will he get there"...he might.
That being said, I don't even know if there's really enough out there for him to achieve it.
Beating Mikey Garcia is the biggest possible achievement I can see out there for him, beyond that he'd be facing people that are simply TOO BIG for him I think.
To truly be Top 10 all time he'd have to take his show successfully all the way up to Welterweight, and be able to beat those guys too. I just can't see it...but let's never say never.
Re: ATG p4p lomachenko
Posted: 15 May 2018, 16:43
man wrote: ↑15 May 2018, 16:37so when would you ask for potentialSenorPipino wrote: ↑15 May 2018, 16:32 Longevity. The test of time. That determines an ATG.
Even the question of potential ATG status should never be raised when a fighter only has 13 pro bouts.
ATG status if not before he achieved it?
Like I said, man. I wouldn't even raise the question.
Just 13 fights is practically the neophyte level, even with an extensive amateur background.
Wht would anyone even suggest future ATG status when only 13 bouts are in the record, and that includes 1 defeat.
It borders on ludicrous. Examine Lomachenko's potential status some years down the line when he has put quite a few more bouts on his resume.
Re: ATG p4p lomachenko
Posted: 15 May 2018, 16:47
tbf his 12 fights are almost all title fights, its nothing the the first 13 for most
in reality a lot of guys get to 20 or more before they fight at the level he was pretty much right away
but still way short of elite atg stuff
in reality a lot of guys get to 20 or more before they fight at the level he was pretty much right away
but still way short of elite atg stuff
Re: ATG p4p lomachenko
Posted: 15 May 2018, 16:50
i suspect he will have a short but stellar career.
Re: ATG p4p lomachenko
Posted: 15 May 2018, 16:52
i dont agree, he could stop moving up and just dominate for years.gilgamesh wrote: ↑15 May 2018, 16:39Not yet, the question was "Will he get there"...he might.
That being said, I don't even know if there's really enough out there for him to achieve it.
Beating Mikey Garcia is the biggest possible achievement I can see out there for him, beyond that he'd be facing people that are simply TOO BIG for him I think.
To truly be Top 10 all time he'd have to take his show successfully all the way up to Welterweight, and be able to beat those guys too. I just can't see it...but let's never say never.
Re: ATG p4p lomachenko
Posted: 15 May 2018, 16:54
..no doubt an excellent start..2-time Olympic champ has the potential..I guess we can revisit this matter in the next 3-5 years..
Re: ATG p4p lomachenko
Posted: 15 May 2018, 16:54
Way too early for me to call this.
Re: ATG p4p lomachenko
Posted: 15 May 2018, 16:57
Re: ATG p4p lomachenko
Posted: 15 May 2018, 16:58
interesting point of view.
Re: ATG p4p lomachenko
Posted: 15 May 2018, 17:01
Re: ATG p4p lomachenko
Posted: 15 May 2018, 17:03
That's fine. I just need to see the whole package of a career before I can say, definitively, that he's p4p the best. A lot can happen, and we've all seen greats become so-so, or just good. IF he retires today, yes...amongst the best I ever saw.
Re: ATG p4p lomachenko
Posted: 15 May 2018, 17:34
Yeah, but you gotta beat Great fighters to BE an All Time Great fighter.jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑15 May 2018, 16:52i dont agree, he could stop moving up and just dominate for years.gilgamesh wrote: ↑15 May 2018, 16:39Not yet, the question was "Will he get there"...he might.
That being said, I don't even know if there's really enough out there for him to achieve it.
Beating Mikey Garcia is the biggest possible achievement I can see out there for him, beyond that he'd be facing people that are simply TOO BIG for him I think.
To truly be Top 10 all time he'd have to take his show successfully all the way up to Welterweight, and be able to beat those guys too. I just can't see it...but let's never say never.
Not a whole lot of depth at 135 at the moment. Unless all of the stars from 126 and 130 move up.
Plus a lot of what he does is speed and reflexes driven type skills...not sure how long he'd be able to keep performing at the level he's currently at.
Re: ATG p4p lomachenko
Posted: 15 May 2018, 17:35
His resume is pretty weak for that at the moment. It's better than Crawford's, but he doesn't have many credible wins. His best win is now Linares, and really, Linares is worthless in a p4p-ATG sense.
1. Linares
2. GRJ
3. Rigondeaux
4. Walters
5. Sosa
6. Marriaga
7. Martinez
How I'd probably rate Lomachenko's best wins so far. Plus, if he meets up Mikey, I think he loses. If he beats Mikey, though, he'd shoot up. Mikey is his p4p contemporary.
1. Linares
2. GRJ
3. Rigondeaux
4. Walters
5. Sosa
6. Marriaga
7. Martinez
How I'd probably rate Lomachenko's best wins so far. Plus, if he meets up Mikey, I think he loses. If he beats Mikey, though, he'd shoot up. Mikey is his p4p contemporary.
Re: ATG p4p lomachenko
Posted: 15 May 2018, 17:36
He gets passed Garcia and we have a discussion.Mexi-Box wrote: ↑15 May 2018, 17:35 His resume is pretty weak for that at the moment. It's better than Crawford's, but he doesn't have many credible wins. His best win is now Linares, and really, Linares is worthless in a p4p-ATG sense.
1. Linares
2. GRJ
3. Rigondeaux
4. Walters
5. Sosa
6. Marriaga
7. Martinez
How I'd probably rate Lomachenko's best wins so far. Plus, if he meets up Mikey, I think he loses. If he beats Mikey, though, he'd shoot up. Mikey is his p4p contemporary.
Re: ATG p4p lomachenko
Posted: 15 May 2018, 17:38
Mikey is pretty much his key at 135 lbs.gilgamesh wrote: ↑15 May 2018, 17:34Yeah, but you gotta beat Great fighters to BE an All Time Great fighter.jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑15 May 2018, 16:52i dont agree, he could stop moving up and just dominate for years.gilgamesh wrote: ↑15 May 2018, 16:39
Not yet, the question was "Will he get there"...he might.
That being said, I don't even know if there's really enough out there for him to achieve it.
Beating Mikey Garcia is the biggest possible achievement I can see out there for him, beyond that he'd be facing people that are simply TOO BIG for him I think.
To truly be Top 10 all time he'd have to take his show successfully all the way up to Welterweight, and be able to beat those guys too. I just can't see it...but let's never say never.
Not a whole lot of depth at 135 at the moment. Unless all of the stars from 126 and 130 move up.
Plus a lot of what he does is speed and reflexes driven type skills...not sure how long he'd be able to keep performing at the level he's currently at.
The rest of the talent is back at 130 lbs. at the moment.
Re: ATG p4p lomachenko
Posted: 15 May 2018, 17:40
Re: ATG p4p lomachenko
Posted: 15 May 2018, 17:40
Garcia, Berchelt and Davis are still here. Deal with them, defeat them and maybe he will be amongst best boxers in history. Linares, Walters, Rigondeaux, Russell, they are very strong victories, but he need to do more 
Re: ATG p4p lomachenko
Posted: 15 May 2018, 17:40
Loma is better than Mayweather.
Re: ATG p4p lomachenko
Posted: 15 May 2018, 17:42
WOW!!! Not a Mayweather fan, but that's a very bold statement. Maybe with wins over Garcia and clean out the division, then we can talk about that comp, IMNSHO
Re: ATG p4p lomachenko
Posted: 15 May 2018, 17:48
Yeah I agreeMexi-Box wrote: ↑15 May 2018, 17:38Mikey is pretty much his key at 135 lbs.gilgamesh wrote: ↑15 May 2018, 17:34Yeah, but you gotta beat Great fighters to BE an All Time Great fighter.jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑15 May 2018, 16:52
i dont agree, he could stop moving up and just dominate for years.
Not a whole lot of depth at 135 at the moment. Unless all of the stars from 126 and 130 move up.
Plus a lot of what he does is speed and reflexes driven type skills...not sure how long he'd be able to keep performing at the level he's currently at.
The rest of the talent is back at 130 lbs. at the moment.