old film footage

[robert.snell1]

having just read the thread on the missing Greb etc films I would welcome comments etc on the following.


during world war 1 the army allowed boxing matches to go ahead as it was seen good for morale - took their minds of being shot.

several boxers were drafted for the war and i wonder if any film footage exists. the amount of film of the war years is huge and like most things the army love to stash stuff away and forget where it is.

The armed forces had their own people doing this so I wonder if all they had was handed over to someone else or has some been retained - they can be odd about certain matters.

if they still have I will suggest they send it to Blair and Bush - good for morale eh

[Guest]

Hmmmmmmm...........

[robert.snell1]

thank you

[dempseyfire]

There is film of some sparring sessions conducted during World War 11 (Louis, an old Jack Johnson) but World War 1-to my knowledge there is none that exists today . . . .

[crooked nose]

I have heard that most of the film stock from the early years (c.1900-1920) has vanished simply because the film has crumbled to dust. Nearly everything is gone - whole Charlie Chaplin films, historic events etc., never to be seen again. I would think that boxing footage from WW1 would include a good amount of Gene Tunney, who was the AEF Lt. Heavy champ.
Maybe we could have Blair and Bush duke it out with each other, then send the tape to Iraq to boost morale? Who would win? Or would it be No Contest because neither could find the boxing ring which they were so sure was there!

[klompton]

I have Gene Tunney winning the AEF title against Ted Jamieson, Footage of a bout between soldiers at Rockford, Illinois (camp Grant), in which Eddie Mcgoorty participated, footage of Carpentier knocking out an American M.P. in an exhibition bout, footage of Bombadier Billy Wells against Pat O'Keefe during the war, Footage of Carpentier in his plane during WW1 and training the troops, footage of Johnny Kilbane, Mike Gibbons, and Benny Leonard training troops on self defense and bayonet tactics during WW1. There is actually footage of Kid McCoy taken during the Pancho Villa episode down south just before WW1, but hes just sitting on a log eating watermelon. Footage of Corbett and McCoy sparring for the war effort. Darcys last fight with George Chip was filmed during the war and not long before he fled the draft. O'Dowds demolition of Mccoy was filmed during the war while O'dowd was preparing to be drafted. There are others of course but memory escapes me on what.

One thats now lost to history that would be interesting is Dempseys bout with Fulton in 1918. That was filmed but no longer exists.

[robert.snell1]

07/02/2000

S07020001.htm


THE BOXING COLLECTION

G-ITN160

A selection of Reuters and ITN material from the world of boxing (in non-chronological order)

*** REUTERS PICTURE CAN BE USED BY ITN BULLETINS WITHOUT CLEARANCE. MUST DECLARE AFTER USE THROUGH ITN


TAPE 1: FOR VAULTS RETRIEVAL PLEASE QUOTE B0460257

DUB AVAILABLE ON B0460395

TAPE 2: FOR VAULTS RETRIEVAL PLEASE QUOTE B0192335

DUB AVAILABLE ON B0560196


00.00.05 Reuters 11848: BPN708(4): Joe Louis in the army in 1942: training with soldiers; boxing with sparring partner; Joe speaking to camera (mute, I'm afraid); black officers being presented with wings; pilots taking off; troops boarding plane; aircraft-carrier operations (including good airshots)

00.02.38 Reuters 9804: BPN653(3): Jack Dempsey makes comback in 1940: Dempsey with crowds in Atlanta; the fight; Dempsey knocks Luttrell out - right out of the ring, in fact; Dempsey comments after fight

00.04.08 Reuters 8210: BPN618(4): Joe Louis beats John Henry Lewis (1939): Exterior Madison Square Garden at night; spectators including Bill Slater, John Barrymore, J. Edgar Hoover, Sonja Henie, Gene Tunney; introductions; fight starts (no punches thrown) and then cut to Bill Slater who talks about the fight - 'because of federal law... we cannot show actual fight pictures...' - Slater is intercut between shots of the hapless Lewis hitting the deck more than once. Slater interviews Joe Louis at the end....badly.

00.07.27 Reuters 7610: BPN605(5): Who's Next Asks Joe Louis? (1938): Exterior Yankee Stadium and queues outside; weigh-in between Joe Louis and Max Schmelling; Louis after fight - interviewed; intvw with British contender Tommy Farr - would like a return

00.08.52 Reuters 6572: BPN590(4): Tommy Farr training pre-fight with Joe Louis (1937): Farr running; knocking down sparring partner; interviewed; Joe Louis talks to camera on hoping to knock Farr out

00.09.53 Reuters 6095: BPN581(5): Tommy Farr and Max Baer in training (1937): Farr training in Blackheath; speaks in Welsh; Baer training in Kingston; interview

00.10.42 Reuters 6152: BPN583(4): Tommy Farr beats Max Baer in 12 rounds (1937): Both into ring; excerpts from the fight; Farr wins

00.13.53 Reuters GB37218/1843: Sugar Ray Robinson and Randolph Trupin in training (1951): Robinson training and sparring in New Jersey; with his wife; Turpin training and sparring (Turpin was world champion and was to lose the title to Robinson - see next story)

00.14.51 Reuters GB37304/1847: Turpin loses to Robinson (1951): weigh-in; Turpin talking to camera about losing fight (no shots of fight)

00.16.01 Reuters GB35857/1774: Sugar Ray Robinson beats Hans Stetz in Frankfurt (1951): shots from the fight - Stetz floored a number of times

00.17.21 Reuters GB36803/1829: Randolph Turpin returns home to Leamington as world champion (1951): motorcade; Turpin in crowds; Turpin speech from Town Hall balcony

00.19.11 Reuters GB35352/1747: Tommy Farr Comeback (1950): Farr beats Jan Klein with 6th Round KO - shots of fight

00.20.20 Reuters GB25271/1314: Eric Boon beats Laurie Stevins in South Africa (1946): shots of fight; Stevins knocked out

00.21.57 Reuters GB27870/1452: Freddie Mills beats Stefan Olek of France (1948): shots of fight; Mills wins on points; highlights of a wrestling bout between Freddie Atkins and Laverne Baxter follows

00.23.51 Reuters GB13615/551: Underwater boxing in Palm Springs (1939) - a shot of two sluggers in a pool...

00.24.04 Reuters GB14475/580: Eric Boon knocks out Len Wickwar at Leicester City football ground (1939): crowd run for cover after cloudburst; shots of fight

00.24.56 Reuters Issue 20: Max Baer in Florida (1934): beachwear fashion parade; Max Baer and girl dancers (wearing boxing gloves); they pounce on him; then they dance round him....he looks somewhat bemused.

00.26.15 Reuters Issue 41: Len Harvey Training (1934): Len Harvey training before fight with Jack Petersen; drinks a cuppa and talks to camera about his prospects of winning (he lost)

00.27.08 Reuters GB51671/2355: Floyd Patterson in training (1956): arrivcal at station; at training camp; training and sparring

00.27.47 Reuters Universal 42717/2428: Randolph Turpin training in USA prior to Middlewight Championship fight (1953) - training and sparring

00.28.18 Reuters GB37744/1869: Joe Louis in Tokyo (1951): presented with flowers; giving exhibition bout against serviceman - Louis knocks him out

00.28.42 Reuters GB40046/1988: Randolph Turpin beats Victor D'Haes (1953): Birmingham: shots of fight - D'Haes knocked out in the 6th

00.29.54 Reuters GB53523/2559: Max Schmeling Backgrounder: with wife Annie on their Silver Wedding Anniversary in 1958 - at their mink farm near Hamburg; flashbacks to his wedding day in 1933; fights against Walter Neusel in 1934; training in America in 1936 (he was to defeat Joe Louis); returning to Germany in 1936; on farm racking mink pelts in 1958

00.31.30 Reuters GB52259/2498: Joe Brown retains World light-heavyweight title in Chicago (1957) - scenes from fight against Joey Lopez

00.32.13 Reuters 6665: BPN680: Farr Nearly Does It! (1937): Tommy Farr sparring; Joe Louis sparring; Farr after fight; Welsh town listening to fight on radio - followed by a gap - then more Welsh listeners and local saying Tonypandy is glad Farr has won (which must have been about a previous fight judging by the title...)

00.33.48 Reuters GG10474/V82(2): Jack Dempsey and Gene Tunney ready for Championship Battle (1926): Dempsey in training and sparring; Gene Tunney training; flashback to Dempsey at end of his last fight; more Tunney training and sparring

00.35.35 Reuters GG10511/V82(2): Jack Dempsey/Gene Tunney fight in Philadelphia (1926): crowds arriving; airview stadium crowds pushed back by police; Tex Rickard, promoter; Dempsey and Tunney in ring after the fight (no shots of boxing - Dempsey won)

00.36.35 Reuters GG11623/V100(5): Jack Sharkey in training for fight against Dempsey (1927); in training; shaking hands with past boxer Tom Sharkey; sparring

00.37.38 Reuters GG12356/V106(3): Max Schmeling (1928): Schmeling chatting and closeup

00.37.59 Reuters GG14928/V126(4): Boxing Kangaroo in Berlin (1929): kangaroo walking in street; taken for a ride in car; boxing human opponent; human counted out...

00.38.37 Reuters GG15547 and 15548/V135(3): Carnera/Stribling (1929): Giant Primo Carnera running in park; squeezing into a car - legs draped over dashboard; sparring with a somewhat shorter person; they compare shoe sizes; Young Stribling skipping; shadow boxing

00.39.47 Reuters GG16568/V143: Young Stribling Beats Phil Scott (1930): fight including three knockdowns and Scott retiring in 2nd Round

00.40.57 Reuters GG17313/V148: Teddy Baldock and Kid Pattenden in training (1931)

00.42.04 Reuters GG492/V37(1): Gunner Moir beats Bombadier Billy Wells (1910):

Moir in training; Freddie Welsh, 'Champion Lightweight Boxer of England And America' introduced to crowd by Jimmy Britt; the fighters enter the ring; the fight; Bombadier Billy Wells collapses in Round 3

00.49.04 Reuters GG842/V10(4): Jack Dempsey in training for fight against Jess Willard (1919)

00.49.35 Reuters GG7763/V64(3): Georges Carpentier (1924): shots of huge crowd watching fight; long shot of Carpentier being fanned in corner (no shots of fighting)

00.50.10 Reuters GG5599/V169: James J. Jeffries, former world boxing champion with his predecessor Gentleman Jim Corbett, on his farm (Jeffries was to quit farming to take up the ministry) in 1922

[Manos de Oro]

I have Gene Tunney winning the AEF title against Ted Jamieson, Footage of a bout between soldiers at Rockford, Illinois (camp Grant), in which Eddie Mcgoorty participated, footage of Carpentier knocking out an American M.P. in an exhibition bout, footage of Bombadier Billy Wells against Pat O'Keefe during the war, Footage of Carpentier in his plane during WW1 and training the troops, footage of Johnny Kilbane, Mike Gibbons, and Benny Leonard training troops on self defense and bayonet tactics during WW1. There is actually footage of Kid McCoy taken during the Pancho Villa episode down south just before WW1, but hes just sitting on a log eating watermelon. Footage of Corbett and McCoy sparring for the war effort. Darcys last fight with George Chip was filmed during the war and not long before he fled the draft. O'Dowds demolition of Mccoy was filmed during the war while O'dowd was preparing to be drafted. There are others of course but memory escapes me on what.

One thats now lost to history that would be interesting is Dempseys bout with Fulton in 1918. That was filmed but no longer exists.

Do you know of any other fights of Darcy's that were filmed, klompton? Also, did he look good in the footage you have seen of him? TIA

[klompton]

The footage that exists of Darcy is:

Darcy-Clabby
Darcy-Mcgoorty (KO highlite)
Darcy-Chip
Darcy-Dave Smith
Darcy-George "KO" Brown (short highlite)

training footage

and a silent film he did in Australia (I forget the name).

Darcy looks very strong and durable but Ive always though he looked a bit overrated. That being said look who hes fighting in the films: Chip, Clabby, and McGoorty were some of the best middleweights the U.S. had to offer. It should also be remembered that he was still very young when he died. That being said there are, in my mind, still some questions that he left unanswered. First of all he was fighting all of his fights on his home turf and had the benefit of extremely powerful (and often shady) men behind him such as Snowy Baker and Huge Deal McCintosh. So I think its fair to say that home court advantage is not too strong a word when describing some of his wins. Another thing is that while many of those American fighters praised him as being a top notch fighter, some came back with stories of fixed fights and dirty deals. His two fights with Jeff Smith are a big question mark. Both were refereed by Darcy's manager's brother. In the first bout Smith hit Darcy with what some have called a legitimate body shot and some called a low blow. Darcy refused to leave his corner after the rest between rounds and the referee DQ'd him (probably should have been called a TKO). Remember this is Snowy Bakers brother so youve got to figure that if the punch werent legit (and maybe even if it was) he would have done whatever he could to get Smith DQd. Now a rematch was signed and fought and before the fight had really gotten underway Smith was DQd for (what else) a low blow, and all of his money for the bout was confiscated by none other than Snowy Baker. Smith took it to court and lost because his contract read that Baker could confiscate the money as he saw fit. Smith left Australia and was bitter until his dying day about the treatment he recieved there. It was the only time in his recorded career that he was ever DQd and as clean, scientific, and accurate a puncher Smith was, its hard to buy that he DQd Darcy on purpose or otherwise. Another thing about Darcy that I find strange is that three of his biggest domestic fights in Australia were against Dave Smith and Harold Hardwick. Dave Smith was none other than Darcy's tutor and Hardwick was a close a companion. Couple all of this with the fact that Darcy has practically been canonized by the Australian sporting public and you get a very distorted picture of the young man which Ive never really seen portrayed to what I consider any accurate satisfaction.

[Manos de Oro]

The footage that exists of Darcy is:

Darcy-Clabby
Darcy-Mcgoorty (KO highlite)
Darcy-Chip
Darcy-Dave Smith
Darcy-George "KO" Brown (short highlite)

training footage

and a silent film he did in Australia (I forget the name).

Darcy looks very strong and durable but Ive always though he looked a bit overrated. That being said look who hes fighting in the films: Chip, Clabby, and McGoorty were some of the best middleweights the U.S. had to offer. It should also be remembered that he was still very young when he died. That being said there are, in my mind, still some questions that he left unanswered. First of all he was fighting all of his fights on his home turf and had the benefit of extremely powerful (and often shady) men behind him such as Snowy Baker and Huge Deal McCintosh. So I think its fair to say that home court advantage is not too strong a word when describing some of his wins. Another thing is that while many of those American fighters praised him as being a top notch fighter, some came back with stories of fixed fights and dirty deals. His two fights with Jeff Smith are a big question mark. Both were refereed by Darcy's manager's brother. In the first bout Smith hit Darcy with what some have called a legitimate body shot and some called a low blow. Darcy refused to leave his corner after the rest between rounds and the referee DQ'd him (probably should have been called a TKO). Remember this is Snowy Bakers brother so youve got to figure that if the punch werent legit (and maybe even if it was) he would have done whatever he could to get Smith DQd. Now a rematch was signed and fought and before the fight had really gotten underway Smith was DQd for (what else) a low blow, and all of his money for the bout was confiscated by none other than Snowy Baker. Smith took it to court and lost because his contract read that Baker could confiscate the money as he saw fit. Smith left Australia and was bitter until his dying day about the treatment he recieved there. It was the only time in his recorded career that he was ever DQd and as clean, scientific, and accurate a puncher Smith was, its hard to buy that he DQd Darcy on purpose or otherwise. Another thing about Darcy that I find strange is that three of his biggest domestic fights in Australia were against Dave Smith and Harold Hardwick. Dave Smith was none other than Darcy's tutor and Hardwick was a close a companion. Couple all of this with the fact that Darcy has practically been canonized by the Australian sporting public and you get a very distorted picture of the young man which Ive never really seen portrayed to what I consider any accurate satisfaction.

Thanks, absolutely top class post. You have confirmed many of my suspicions about Darcy.

[silkov]

The footage that exists of Darcy is:

Darcy-Clabby
Darcy-Mcgoorty (KO highlite)
Darcy-Chip
Darcy-Dave Smith
Darcy-George "KO" Brown (short highlite)

training footage

and a silent film he did in Australia (I forget the name).

Darcy looks very strong and durable but Ive always though he looked a bit overrated. That being said look who hes fighting in the films: Chip, Clabby, and McGoorty were some of the best middleweights the U.S. had to offer. It should also be remembered that he was still very young when he died. That being said there are, in my mind, still some questions that he left unanswered. First of all he was fighting all of his fights on his home turf and had the benefit of extremely powerful (and often shady) men behind him such as Snowy Baker and Huge Deal McCintosh. So I think its fair to say that home court advantage is not too strong a word when describing some of his wins. Another thing is that while many of those American fighters praised him as being a top notch fighter, some came back with stories of fixed fights and dirty deals. His two fights with Jeff Smith are a big question mark. Both were refereed by Darcy's manager's brother. In the first bout Smith hit Darcy with what some have called a legitimate body shot and some called a low blow. Darcy refused to leave his corner after the rest between rounds and the referee DQ'd him (probably should have been called a TKO). Remember this is Snowy Bakers brother so youve got to figure that if the punch werent legit (and maybe even if it was) he would have done whatever he could to get Smith DQd. Now a rematch was signed and fought and before the fight had really gotten underway Smith was DQd for (what else) a low blow, and all of his money for the bout was confiscated by none other than Snowy Baker. Smith took it to court and lost because his contract read that Baker could confiscate the money as he saw fit. Smith left Australia and was bitter until his dying day about the treatment he recieved there. It was the only time in his recorded career that he was ever DQd and as clean, scientific, and accurate a puncher Smith was, its hard to buy that he DQd Darcy on purpose or otherwise. Another thing about Darcy that I find strange is that three of his biggest domestic fights in Australia were against Dave Smith and Harold Hardwick. Dave Smith was none other than Darcy's tutor and Hardwick was a close a companion. Couple all of this with the fact that Darcy has practically been canonized by the Australian sporting public and you get a very distorted picture of the young man which Ive never really seen portrayed to what I consider any accurate satisfaction.

I think Darcey was still not yet at his peak when he died... he was only 21 wasn't he?..... he would probably grown into a Light-heavy perhaps even a Heavyweight?...