Italian boxing issues

[Jacopodb]

The average payday for a nowadays' boxing Italian championship bout is roughly 2.500 euros.

Now I don't know how many of you are interested in the current Italian boxing scene or boxing history (with his 35 world champions in history, Italy is nowhere near U.S.A.'s over 400 world champions, or Mexican, or British world champions, both widely surpassing the 100...), but it's remarkable to say that the few boxers that could afford moving to any Anglo-Saxon country have had an average success (Antuofermo, Rocky Mattioli and Gatti at least, were there to prove it).

Much better have done the sons of Italian immigrants (from Marciano to La Motta, Willie Pep and Calzaghe), but that's completely off-topic here.

The point is that every Italian boxing champion I've known since the past 15 years, was doing a double job: boxers and: plumbers, dock workers, swimming instructors, cleansing department-employees... and many more.

I'm not crying pity or trying to justify any failure, I'm just saying that not only the good old days of Loi and Benvenuti are gone, but also the ones of Arcari, Parisi, Fragomeni etc., as some of you might have noticed: if anything is obvious enough and, despite that, no one has accused it yet, then it's my turn to come out.

As North-American big guys can now afford college and choose basketball, Italian kids can now afford a made-in-China professional soccer ball and, eventually, a soccer school: so, where today's U.S.A. heavyweight scene is almost absent, the whole Italian boxing scene has waned because any bigger or smaller guy can play soccer with the same proficiency.

So, if anyone has ever wondered why Italian boxing world champions have completely disappeared, here's a (still predictable) answer: no funds, no investments, no infrastructures.

Forget Cammarelle (in the very same class as Teofilo Stevenson, Felix Savon, Laszlo Papp and few others), Russo, Valentino and alike: all of them and arguably any other Italian Olympic boxer work for police corps or any military-related institution, and are paid exclusively to train and box, earning much more than professional, nation-class boxers.

Saluti.

[dagilechia]

The average payday for a nowadays' boxing Italian championship bout is roughly 2.500 euros.

Now I don't know how many of you are interested in the current Italian boxing scene or boxing history (with his 35 world champions in history, Italy is nowhere near U.S.A.'s over 400 world champions, or Mexican, or British world champions, both widely surpassing the 100...), but it's remarkable to say that the few boxers that could afford moving to any Anglo-Saxon country have had an average success (Antuofermo, Rocky Mattioli and Gatti at least, were there to prove it).

Much better have done the sons of Italian immigrants (from Marciano to La Motta, Willie Pep and Calzaghe), but that's completely off-topic here.

The point is that every Italian boxing champion I've known since the past 15 years, was doing a double job: boxers and: plumbers, dock workers, swimming instructors, cleansing department-employees... and many more.

I'm not crying pity or trying to justify any failure, I'm just saying that not only the good old days of Loi and Benvenuti are gone, but also the ones of Arcari, Parisi, Fragomeni etc., as some of you might have noticed: if anything is obvious enough and, despite that, no one has accused it yet, then it's my turn to come out.

As North-American big guys can now afford college and choose basketball, Italian kids can now afford a made-in-China professional soccer ball and, eventually, a soccer school: so, where today's U.S.A. heavyweight scene is almost absent, the whole Italian boxing scene has waned because any bigger or smaller guy can play soccer with the same proficiency.

So, if anyone has ever wondered why Italian boxing world champions have completely disappeared, here's a (still predictable) answer: no funds, no investments, no infrastructures.

Forget Cammarelle (in the very same class as Teofilo Stevenson, Felix Savon, Laszlo Papp and few others), Russo, Valentino and alike: all of them and arguably any other Italian Olympic boxer work for police corps or any military-related institution, and are paid exclusively to train and box, earning much more than professional, nation-class boxers.

Saluti.

How do you rate Fabio Turchi and Alessandro Rigucini (ex-kickboxer, he fights only in Mexico though)? I heard they're good.

[Jacopodb]

The average payday for a nowadays' boxing Italian championship bout is roughly 2.500 euros.

Now I don't know how many of you are interested in the current Italian boxing scene or boxing history (with his 35 world champions in history, Italy is nowhere near U.S.A.'s over 400 world champions, or Mexican, or British world champions, both widely surpassing the 100...), but it's remarkable to say that the few boxers that could afford moving to any Anglo-Saxon country have had an average success (Antuofermo, Rocky Mattioli and Gatti at least, were there to prove it).

Much better have done the sons of Italian immigrants (from Marciano to La Motta, Willie Pep and Calzaghe), but that's completely off-topic here.

The point is that every Italian boxing champion I've known since the past 15 years, was doing a double job: boxers and: plumbers, dock workers, swimming instructors, cleansing department-employees... and many more.

I'm not crying pity or trying to justify any failure, I'm just saying that not only the good old days of Loi and Benvenuti are gone, but also the ones of Arcari, Parisi, Fragomeni etc., as some of you might have noticed: if anything is obvious enough and, despite that, no one has accused it yet, then it's my turn to come out.

As North-American big guys can now afford college and choose basketball, Italian kids can now afford a made-in-China professional soccer ball and, eventually, a soccer school: so, where today's U.S.A. heavyweight scene is almost absent, the whole Italian boxing scene has waned because any bigger or smaller guy can play soccer with the same proficiency.

So, if anyone has ever wondered why Italian boxing world champions have completely disappeared, here's a (still predictable) answer: no funds, no investments, no infrastructures.

Forget Cammarelle (in the very same class as Teofilo Stevenson, Felix Savon, Laszlo Papp and few others), Russo, Valentino and alike: all of them and arguably any other Italian Olympic boxer work for police corps or any military-related institution, and are paid exclusively to train and box, earning much more than professional, nation-class boxers.

Saluti.

How do you rate Fabio Turchi and Alessandro Rigucini (ex-kickboxer, he fights only in Mexico though)? I heard they're good.

I remember Fabio Turchi, we had written on the same forum for a while, while he was still not much more than a kid: he became a proficient amateur, even a phenom by some means, so I thought that he might have been the heir of Cammarelle, but I've heard he turned pro, and I haven't followed him since then. Nothing wrong, but I reckon that if he's still based in Italy, going pro might not have been the best choice for him, economically. But I reckon it could just be a matter of passion: his father is a former good boxer, and I believe it's pretty much in the blood.

I've never heard about the other guy you named, I don't follow kickboxing. But thanks for asking, anyway. Cheers.

[dagilechia]

The average payday for a nowadays' boxing Italian championship bout is roughly 2.500 euros.

Now I don't know how many of you are interested in the current Italian boxing scene or boxing history (with his 35 world champions in history, Italy is nowhere near U.S.A.'s over 400 world champions, or Mexican, or British world champions, both widely surpassing the 100...), but it's remarkable to say that the few boxers that could afford moving to any Anglo-Saxon country have had an average success (Antuofermo, Rocky Mattioli and Gatti at least, were there to prove it).

Much better have done the sons of Italian immigrants (from Marciano to La Motta, Willie Pep and Calzaghe), but that's completely off-topic here.

The point is that every Italian boxing champion I've known since the past 15 years, was doing a double job: boxers and: plumbers, dock workers, swimming instructors, cleansing department-employees... and many more.

I'm not crying pity or trying to justify any failure, I'm just saying that not only the good old days of Loi and Benvenuti are gone, but also the ones of Arcari, Parisi, Fragomeni etc., as some of you might have noticed: if anything is obvious enough and, despite that, no one has accused it yet, then it's my turn to come out.

As North-American big guys can now afford college and choose basketball, Italian kids can now afford a made-in-China professional soccer ball and, eventually, a soccer school: so, where today's U.S.A. heavyweight scene is almost absent, the whole Italian boxing scene has waned because any bigger or smaller guy can play soccer with the same proficiency.

So, if anyone has ever wondered why Italian boxing world champions have completely disappeared, here's a (still predictable) answer: no funds, no investments, no infrastructures.

Forget Cammarelle (in the very same class as Teofilo Stevenson, Felix Savon, Laszlo Papp and few others), Russo, Valentino and alike: all of them and arguably any other Italian Olympic boxer work for police corps or any military-related institution, and are paid exclusively to train and box, earning much more than professional, nation-class boxers.

Saluti.

How do you rate Fabio Turchi and Alessandro Rigucini (ex-kickboxer, he fights only in Mexico though)? I heard they're good.

I remember Fabio Turchi, we had written on the same forum for a while, while he was still not much more than a kid: he became a proficient amateur, even a phenom by some means, so I thought that he might have been the heir of Cammarelle, but I've heard he turned pro, and I haven't followed him since then. Nothing wrong, but I reckon that if he's still based in Italy, going pro might not have been the best choice for him, economically. But I reckon it could just be a matter of passion: his father is a former good boxer, and I believe it's pretty much in the blood.

I've never heard about the other guy you named, I don't follow kickboxing. But thanks for asking, anyway. Cheers.

Turchi seems to be a good CW prospect (especially in a weakening CW division, Usyk will move to HW, Gassiev maybe too, Briedis, Glowacki and Dorticos are all like 31-33 years old) and still pretty young, the other guy i mentioned is a former kickboxer but he already has like +20 fights in pro boxing at WW but he fought no-names only, seems like he's a good puncher. Italian boxing is in crisis, just like German boxing (and Polish too...) but maybe Dazn and Hearn will animate Italian scene a little bit.

[Jacopodb]

How do you rate Fabio Turchi and Alessandro Rigucini (ex-kickboxer, he fights only in Mexico though)? I heard they're good.

I remember Fabio Turchi, we had written on the same forum for a while, while he was still not much more than a kid: he became a proficient amateur, even a phenom by some means, so I thought that he might have been the heir of Cammarelle, but I've heard he turned pro, and I haven't followed him since then. Nothing wrong, but I reckon that if he's still based in Italy, going pro might not have been the best choice for him, economically. But I reckon it could just be a matter of passion: his father is a former good boxer, and I believe it's pretty much in the blood.

I've never heard about the other guy you named, I don't follow kickboxing. But thanks for asking, anyway. Cheers.

Turchi seems to be a good CW prospect (especially in a weakening CW division, Usyk will move to HW, Gassiev maybe too, Briedis, Glowacki and Dorticos are all like 31-33 years old) and still pretty young, the other guy i mentioned is a former kickboxer but he already has like +20 fights in pro boxing at WW but he fought no-names only, seems like he's a good puncher. Italian boxing is in crisis, just like German boxing (and Polish too...) but maybe Dazn and Hearn will animate Italian scene a little bit.

We need a little digression here...

...Usyk moving up in weight, huh? I guess he's getting old... I'm afraid that he could become a little intricate and robotic, putting up too much muscular mass (doesn't look like a guy eager to put up fat).
I usually don't like boxers to move up weight classes (except if their name is Floyd Mayweather Jr....): I would've liked Marciano much more to have fought in the cruiserweights (not sure if there even was that weight class, at the time), or light-heavy... he would certainly be regarded more highly, easily reaching the status of greatest cruiserweight/light-middleweight ever, thanks to his outstanding work ethics, and fierce detractors could even shut their mouth from time to time...

From Poland, the last solid boxers I remember are Wlodarczick and Fonfara...

Germans had that rather picky guy Sturm, and Arthur Abraham, not the fastest pistol in the west, but damn-that-guy-he-hit-hard... I liked him, didn't like him going super-middle, but I admit he was pretty dominant even there, feared like plague by biased juries... I remember what happened with that whimsical, affected Andre Dirrell... was controversial, shouldn't have happened, a bit like Marciano vs Walcott... but such things can happen... Abraham was spanking the guy anyway... I hate Andre Ward too (as an athlete), his bigotry and his dirty, unsportsmanlike and unspectacular style: watching him fight was worse than having a solitary rattlesnake-shake (the good old jerk-off...).
I loved Froch even better than "King" Arthur: "The Cobra" is a class act, and his first fight with Kessler was anthology material (unlike that useless bloodbath of Ward-Gatti trilogy, sadly popular among morbid, bloodthirsty fans. The days of gladiators are over for a purpose... pervert, hysterical chreerleaders... just two guys taking too much punishment from each other... I don't need that macho-crap).
Both Abraham (Avetik Abrahamian) and Sturm (Adnan Catic) aren't German-born, by the way.
End of digression, end of paragraph, end of chapter. Period.

[KiwiRider]

I would say, give Matchroom a chance. It may be just a way for Matchroom UK to drum up opponents for its up and coming UK fighters, or if the Italian public take to having reasonable boxing fight nights and it makes money, it could help with a Renaissance for pro boxing. in Italy.
Nothing like an injection of cash to get things moving.
Things have got tougher for a lot of European boxers from traditional boxing countries with the advent of a lot of well schooled and motivated East European amateurs entering the pro ranks with proper representation. While the competition is good for fans, with the likes of Loma, Usyk, GGG, Bivol etc, it makes life a lot tougher breaking out of Europe with success at that level before going world title fights.

[Stuarty]

The main issue is that it's fuckin shíte

[Jacopodb]

The main issue is that it's fuckin shíte

Yes, but for the above-named reasons, alright? ;)

Italy's boxing tradition is just fair: a couple of hall-of-famers, couple of dozens -or little more- honest world champions, few olympic boxing-gold-medals... What else do you need, from a soccer/volley/water polo/amateur boxing-fed country?

The pugilatus-era is over... Ancient Romans mastered the art of what can be considered as the ancestor of British-ruled boxing, with pugilists fighting with wicker-made baskets on their hands, instead of gloves. Leave Italy alone, please.

[Stuarty]

The main issue is that it's fuckin shíte

Yes, but for the above-named reasons, alright? ;)

Italy's boxing tradition is just fair: a couple of hall-of-famers, couple of dozens -or little more- honest world champions, few olympic boxing-gold-medals... What else do you need, from a soccer/volley/water polo/amateur boxing-fed country?

The pugilatus-era is over... Ancient Romans mastered the art of what can be considered as the ancestor of British-ruled boxing, with pugilists fighting with wicker-made baskets on their hands, instead of gloves. Leave Italy alone, please.

Stick to football and spaghetti bro! Italian boxing is grim

[Jacopodb]

I would say, give Matchroom a chance. It may be just a way for Matchroom UK to drum up opponents for its up and coming UK fighters, or if the Italian public take to having reasonable boxing fight nights and it makes money, it could help with a Renaissance for pro boxing. in Italy.
Nothing like an injection of cash to get things moving.
Things have got tougher for a lot of European boxers from traditional boxing countries with the advent of a lot of well schooled and motivated East European amateurs entering the pro ranks with proper representation. While the competition is good for fans, with the likes of Loma, Usyk, GGG, Bivol etc, it makes life a lot tougher breaking out of Europe with success at that level before going world title fights.

I took a glance at that Matchroom thing: I recognised Boschiero, an as-much-as-troubled guy: the lad had drug-related issues... He's quite fit but past-his-prime, and such Italian fighters (Oliva, Parisi, Bundu, Fragomeni, Branco etc. etc. etc.), no matter how talented they are, just don't have enough time to train: they will lose as soon as they peep their own heads out of Europe... with very, very few exceptions I also mentioned.

If the above named Italian fighters, and many more (Francesco Rosi and Damiani, just to name a couple), were financed enough to be able to go train and live in North-America, like the Italian-born immigrant Gatti did (and he was far-less talented than Bundu or Parisi...), Italy would have no-less world champions than Great Britain, most probably...

There are no sponsors whatsoever to finance Italian talented boxers, alright? Everything happens for a reason, even if we can't see it.

[Jacopodb]

The main issue is that it's fuckin shíte

Yes, but for the above-named reasons, alright? ;)

Italy's boxing tradition is just fair: a couple of hall-of-famers, couple of dozens -or little more- honest world champions, few olympic boxing-gold-medals... What else do you need, from a soccer/volley/water polo/amateur boxing-fed country?

The pugilatus-era is over... Ancient Romans mastered the art of what can be considered as the ancestor of British-ruled boxing, with pugilists fighting with wicker-made baskets on their hands, instead of gloves. Leave Italy alone, please.

Stick to football and spaghetti bro! Italian boxing is grim

Forget it... Nowadays' Italian soccer/Eur. football national team and Serie-A are just a bunch of twats.

Forget the 2006 world cup, with ballon-d'or-Cannavaro, Del Piero, Totti, Pirlo, Buffon, Nesta, Gattuso, Zambrotta...

Even the good Serie-A days are over, too: forget Ronaldo Nazario, Mourinho's Inter, or Sacchi's Milan: today is just Juventus monopoly (Juventus won the national championship for the latest seven consecutive years...).

We better stick to female volley instead.

Oh, not that I'm a fan, ok? I care about Italy no more than I care about England or Djibouti... Just pulling out a couple of jokes for ya guys.

[Stuarty]

Yes, but for the above-named reasons, alright? ;)

Italy's boxing tradition is just fair: a couple of hall-of-famers, couple of dozens -or little more- honest world champions, few olympic boxing-gold-medals... What else do you need, from a soccer/volley/water polo/amateur boxing-fed country?

The pugilatus-era is over... Ancient Romans mastered the art of what can be considered as the ancestor of British-ruled boxing, with pugilists fighting with wicker-made baskets on their hands, instead of gloves. Leave Italy alone, please.

Stick to football and spaghetti bro! Italian boxing is grim

Forget it... Nowadays' Italian soccer/Eur. football national team and Serie-A are just a bunch of twats.

Forget the 2006 world cup, with ballon-d'or-Cannavaro, Del Piero, Totti, Pirlo, Buffon, Nesta, Gattuso, Zambrotta...

Even the good Serie-A days are over, too: forget Ronaldo Nazario, Mourinho's Inter, or Sacchi's Milan: today is just Juventus monopoly (Juventus won the national championship for the latest seven consecutive years...).

We better stick to female volley instead.

Oh, not that I'm a fan, ok? I care about Italy no more than I care about England or Djibouti... Just pulling out a couple of jokes for ya guys.

Used to love Italian football in the 90s when I was a kid. That AC Milan team were awesome to watch.

[Jacopodb]

Stick to football and spaghetti bro! Italian boxing is grim

Forget it... Nowadays' Italian soccer/Eur. football national team and Serie-A are just a bunch of twats.

Forget the 2006 world cup, with ballon-d'or-Cannavaro, Del Piero, Totti, Pirlo, Buffon, Nesta, Gattuso, Zambrotta...

Even the good Serie-A days are over, too: forget Ronaldo Nazario, Mourinho's Inter, or Sacchi's Milan: today is just Juventus monopoly (Juventus won the national championship for the latest seven consecutive years...).

We better stick to female volley instead.

Oh, not that I'm a fan, ok? I care about Italy no more than I care about England or Djibouti... Just pulling out a couple of jokes for ya guys.

Used to love Italian football in the 90s when I was a kid. That AC Milan team were awesome to watch.

Yeah, as a kid I had a thing for that Ruud Gullit guy: nothing sexual, but the lad was as good as a football player as they come: if Cruijff has been the first modern football player, Gullit might me the first post-modern: he had speed, strenght, proficient technique, style, class, and was a terrific team-dragger: tell me what else you need from a football player.

[dagilechia]

Yes, but for the above-named reasons, alright? ;)

Italy's boxing tradition is just fair: a couple of hall-of-famers, couple of dozens -or little more- honest world champions, few olympic boxing-gold-medals... What else do you need, from a soccer/volley/water polo/amateur boxing-fed country?

The pugilatus-era is over... Ancient Romans mastered the art of what can be considered as the ancestor of British-ruled boxing, with pugilists fighting with wicker-made baskets on their hands, instead of gloves. Leave Italy alone, please.

Stick to football and spaghetti bro! Italian boxing is grim

Forget it... Nowadays' Italian soccer/Eur. football national team and Serie-A are just a bunch of twats.

Forget the 2006 world cup, with ballon-d'or-Cannavaro, Del Piero, Totti, Pirlo, Buffon, Nesta, Gattuso, Zambrotta...

Even the good Serie-A days are over, too: forget Ronaldo Nazario, Mourinho's Inter, or Sacchi's Milan: today is just Juventus monopoly (Juventus won the national championship for the latest seven consecutive years...).

We better stick to female volley instead.

Oh, not that I'm a fan, ok? I care about Italy no more than I care about England or Djibouti... Just pulling out a couple of jokes for ya guys.

i can mention whole 2006 Italian team, now i can mention like 3 maybe 4 Italian players

[Jacopodb]

Stick to football and spaghetti bro! Italian boxing is grim

Forget it... Nowadays' Italian soccer/Eur. football national team and Serie-A are just a bunch of twats.

Forget the 2006 world cup, with ballon-d'or-Cannavaro, Del Piero, Totti, Pirlo, Buffon, Nesta, Gattuso, Zambrotta...

Even the good Serie-A days are over, too: forget Ronaldo Nazario, Mourinho's Inter, or Sacchi's Milan: today is just Juventus monopoly (Juventus won the national championship for the latest seven consecutive years...).

We better stick to female volley instead.

Oh, not that I'm a fan, ok? I care about Italy no more than I care about England or Djibouti... Just pulling out a couple of jokes for ya guys.

now i can mention like 3 maybe 4 Italian players

You better forget them soon, too, dude... Even if you can mention Verratti (far from Pirlo), Chiellini (far from Cannavaro or Nesta), and Bonucci (don't mention him Baresi or Scirea...), or whoever else... Who would you have, washed-up Buffon..?

Even De Rossi (reaching peakes like Gerrard's and Schweinsteiger's), is far from his prime either.

[dagilechia]

yeah i thought about those players, most of them almost retired now i don't know why but int. football doesnt excite me now as it used to excite me in past

[Jacopodb]

yeah i thought about those players, most of them almost retired now i don't know why but int. football doesnt excite me now as it used to excite me in past

Well, I know why, with all due respect: now all football players must be marathon-runners with the body of a 100m sprinter, much like Cristiano Ronaldo, who's as good as you want, but has no opposition whatsoever, except from Messi... None of the two ever had to face Baresi, Van Basten, peaking Ronaldo Nazario, peaking Zidane, figure out Baggio, Beckenbauer, Maradona or Pelé... 35-years-old Nesta utterly erased a prime Messi in a Barcelona-Milan...

I've read an article on an Italian newspaper, saying that 12-years-old kids are sick and tired of running around without a ball to their feet for almost the whole training session... That's why they're gradually leaving the sport: there's no longer the misery and poverty that was in Italy from 1930's to the 70's and even 80's... Boys can afford studies now, and better become a happy dentist or lawyer than a sad footballer...

It's much, much cheaper, for Italian top-teams, buying hungry kids from Colombia or Nigeria, which are eager to run their lungs off for a couple of dimes, than raising spoiled, bored, sick-from-running-around brats (hyperbolically but veritably speaking, alright?).