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Usyk: Number 2 Heavyweight in the world.
Posted: 31 Dec 2018, 16:46
by oogiebe
According to BoxRec, if Usyk were to move to HW tomorrow, his points would be converted x.58. That would make him the number two ranked heavyweight behind AJ. Do you agree? Why? I certainly do not.
Re: Usyk: Number 2 Heavyweight in the world.
Posted: 31 Dec 2018, 16:47
by JCS
#4 feels better but I'm probably biased due to the physical size of #2 and #3... the math is the math...
Re: Usyk: Number 2 Heavyweight in the world.
Posted: 31 Dec 2018, 16:50
by tiny_acres
Until he moves up and defeats a top 10 heavyweight I'm not convinced.
Numbers thrown into a computer don't equate to the vision test.
Re: Usyk: Number 2 Heavyweight in the world.
Posted: 31 Dec 2018, 16:51
by oogiebe
tiny_acres wrote: ↑31 Dec 2018, 16:50
Until he moves up and defeats a top 10 heavyweight I'm not convinced.
Numbers thrown into a computer don't equate to the vision test.
x2
Yet that is what will occur here on BoxRec.
Re: Usyk: Number 2 Heavyweight in the world.
Posted: 31 Dec 2018, 16:52
by tiny_acres
oogiebe wrote: ↑31 Dec 2018, 16:51
tiny_acres wrote: ↑31 Dec 2018, 16:50
Until he moves up and defeats a top 10 heavyweight I'm not convinced.
Numbers thrown into a computer don't equate to the vision test.
x2
Yet that is what will occur here on BoxRec.
No difference then when Bellew moved up.
And this place went into hysteria over it
Re: Usyk: Number 2 Heavyweight in the world.
Posted: 31 Dec 2018, 16:56
by oogiebe
tiny_acres wrote: ↑31 Dec 2018, 16:52
oogiebe wrote: ↑31 Dec 2018, 16:51
tiny_acres wrote: ↑31 Dec 2018, 16:50
Until he moves up and defeats a top 10 heavyweight I'm not convinced.
Numbers thrown into a computer don't equate to the vision test.
x2
Yet that is what will occur here on BoxRec.
No difference then when Bellew moved up.
And this place went into hysteria over it
I asked how Marco Huck was so high up in the HW rankings and I was told (IT's a thread) that because of his converted CW points. Seriously? So if GGG moves up to HW, where will his ranking be? LMAO! Math is great, but sometimes you need personnel on it to clean up the little shvts it may cause!
Re: Usyk: Number 2 Heavyweight in the world.
Posted: 31 Dec 2018, 17:20
by JCS
oogiebe wrote: ↑31 Dec 2018, 16:56
Seriously? So if GGG moves up to HW, where will his ranking be?
It's a good question.. Certainly, he could come in at 175lb and beat some Heavyweights... I think an actual answer, is approx. ~250 points. Seems a wee bit high.
Probably not as bad as Wisaksil Wangek moving to HW in at #15 or Luis Nery at #12.
The "math" has to have a default placement... you can't expect manual efforts for everytime a boxer moves divisions.
Re: Usyk: Number 2 Heavyweight in the world.
Posted: 31 Dec 2018, 17:22
by KiwiRider
In reality, a solid #4 as I think he beats Whyte right out of the gate.
Whatever his boxrec ranking, it's rightfully earned until he is beaten.
Re: Usyk: Number 2 Heavyweight in the world.
Posted: 31 Dec 2018, 17:31
by oogiebe
KiwiRider wrote: ↑31 Dec 2018, 17:22
In reality, a solid #4 as I think he beats Whyte right out of the gate.
Whatever his boxrec ranking, it's rightfully earned until he is beaten.
I can see that, yes.
Re: Usyk: Number 2 Heavyweight in the world.
Posted: 31 Dec 2018, 17:42
by ewenhay
KiwiRider wrote: ↑31 Dec 2018, 17:22
In reality, a solid #4 as I think he beats Whyte right out of the gate.
Whatever his boxrec ranking, it's rightfully earned until he is beaten.
Not really. The boxrec point system is flawed and based on algorithms and generally means very little.
His real ranking will be earned in the ring.
Re: Usyk: Number 2 Heavyweight in the world.
Posted: 31 Dec 2018, 18:00
by gilgamesh
He's not #anything until he actually fights in that weight class.
Re: Usyk: Number 2 Heavyweight in the world.
Posted: 31 Dec 2018, 18:01
by oogiebe
gilgamesh wrote: ↑31 Dec 2018, 18:00
He's not #anything until he actually fights in that weight class.
Go see the Marco Huck thread. BoxRec converts the points from CW as soon as Huck had one HW fight, so you are right, but really?
Re: Usyk: Number 2 Heavyweight in the world.
Posted: 31 Dec 2018, 18:07
by gilgamesh
oogiebe wrote: ↑31 Dec 2018, 18:01
gilgamesh wrote: ↑31 Dec 2018, 18:00
He's not #anything until he actually fights in that weight class.
Go see the Marco Huck thread. BoxRec converts the points from CW as soon as Huck had one HW fight, so you are right, but really?
I wouldn't rank him #2 straight away, but he'd be at worst #8 or 9 straight away just based on what he's already accomplished. Would depend on the level of opponent he beats in his first foray into the division. I wouldn't rank him ahead of Luis Ortiz and Dillian Whyte without putting some solid wins under his belt in the division first. Which given his tendency to chase the big fights I don't doubt he would do in short order.
Re: Usyk: Number 2 Heavyweight in the world.
Posted: 31 Dec 2018, 18:08
by JCS
oogiebe wrote: ↑31 Dec 2018, 18:01
gilgamesh wrote: ↑31 Dec 2018, 18:00
He's not #anything until he actually fights in that weight class.
Go see the Marco Huck thread. BoxRec converts the points from CW as soon as Huck had one HW fight, so you are right, but really?
The conversion is the same, regardless of whether the boxer fights there yet or not... it is at the editors' discretion to actually assign the boxer to a new division before a fight in that division... and have the rating system do the overnight calc.
Re: Usyk: Number 2 Heavyweight in the world.
Posted: 31 Dec 2018, 18:18
by Mexi-Box
Yeah, it's a deserved ranking. Hunter, Bellew, Huck, and Briedis have all fought at that weight class. One of those points where it makes sense to have Usyk ranked high in his move up. If Wilder were to fight all 4 of these guys, he'd be the second coming.
He's destined to clean out the HW division so just stop struggling with this fact.
Re: Usyk: Number 2 Heavyweight in the world.
Posted: 31 Dec 2018, 18:19
by Mexi-Box
gilgamesh wrote: ↑31 Dec 2018, 18:00
He's not #anything until he actually fights in that weight class.
He's beat guys that have fought at that weight class and done really, really well. He's the #2 HW in the world if he moves up tomorrow.
Re: Usyk: Number 2 Heavyweight in the world.
Posted: 31 Dec 2018, 18:20
by oogiebe
Mexi-Box wrote: ↑31 Dec 2018, 18:19
gilgamesh wrote: ↑31 Dec 2018, 18:00
He's not #anything until he actually fights in that weight class.
He's beat guys that have fought at that weight class and done really, really well. He's the #2 HW in the world if he moves up tomorrow.
Magic Mushroom time! YAY!
Re: Usyk: Number 2 Heavyweight in the world.
Posted: 31 Dec 2018, 18:22
by greg
...rating Usyk right away as second best HW is so conspicuously wrong that maybe one should reconsider the algorithm
Re: Usyk: Number 2 Heavyweight in the world.
Posted: 31 Dec 2018, 18:24
by oogiebe
greg wrote: ↑31 Dec 2018, 18:22
...rating Usyk right away as second best HW is so conspicuously wrong that maybe one should reconsider the algorithm
You think?
Re: Usyk: Number 2 Heavyweight in the world.
Posted: 31 Dec 2018, 18:33
by JCS
I'm sure you guys will have fun with this..
So if all boxers moved up to Heavyweight on Boxrec, here's your Top 10 by points:
1 Anthony Joshua
2 Oleksandr Usyk
3 Saul Alvarez
4 Deontay Wilder
5 Tyson Fury
6 Gennady Golovkin
7 Terence Crawford
8 Eleider Alvarez
9 Alexander Povetkin
10 Mairis Briedis
Re: Usyk: Number 2 Heavyweight in the world.
Posted: 31 Dec 2018, 18:34
by oogiebe
JCS wrote: ↑31 Dec 2018, 18:33
I'm sure you guys will have fun with this..
So if all boxers moved up to Heavyweight on Boxrec, here's your Top 10 by points:
1 Anthony Joshua
2 Oleksandr Usyk
3 Saul Alvarez
4 Deontay Wilder
5 Tyson Fury
6 Gennady Golovkin
7 Terence Crawford
8 Eleider Alvarez
9 Alexander Povetkin
10 Mairis Briedis
...ouch...!
Re: Usyk: Number 2 Heavyweight in the world.
Posted: 31 Dec 2018, 18:37
by JCS
oogiebe wrote: ↑31 Dec 2018, 18:34
JCS wrote: ↑31 Dec 2018, 18:33
I'm sure you guys will have fun with this..
So if all boxers moved up to Heavyweight on Boxrec, here's your Top 10 by points:
1 Anthony Joshua
2 Oleksandr Usyk
3 Saul Alvarez
4 Deontay Wilder
5 Tyson Fury
6 Gennady Golovkin
7 Terence Crawford
8 Eleider Alvarez
9 Alexander Povetkin
10 Mairis Briedis
...ouch...!
I guess we'll never know.
I'm curious if these type of freak shows ever happened in boxing.. will need to do some research to get some bearing for comparison.
Here's the top 25...
Code: Select all
669 Anthony Joshua
488 Oleksandr Usyk
323 Saul Alvarez
319 Deontay Wilder
278 Tyson Fury
250 Gennady Golovkin
245 Terence Crawford
243 Eleider Alvarez
229 Alexander Povetkin
227 Mairis Briedis
226 Callum Smith
225 Dillian Whyte
224 Oleksandr Gvozdyk
197 Jarrell Miller
176 Kubrat Pulev
160 Luis Ortiz
158 Badou Jack
155 Dmitry Bivol
151 Vasiliy Lomachenko
134 Krzysztof Glowacki
134 Manny Pacquiao
131 Errol Spence Jr
130 Murat Gassiev
125 Dominic Breazeale
123 Shawn Porter
Fun match-ups in there..
Re: Usyk: Number 2 Heavyweight in the world.
Posted: 31 Dec 2018, 21:49
by Lackeos
Saul Alvarez over Tyson Fury and Vasiliy Lomachenko over Krzysztof Glowacki. Somehow I doubt it would pan out like that.
I'd like to see Usyk fight a top 8 heavyweight before he is granted with an automatic top 3 ranking (by the community, not the computerized rankings). It even feels weird giving Usyk a #4 ranking when he hasn't fought one of the top 8 240+ pounders like Ortiz, Pulev, Povetkin, Whyte, and Miller. How can you be sure that there aren't extraordinary disparities in power and toughness that would overwhelm Usyk's theoretical skill advantage? And Povetkin has 2 world amateur gold medals; it's not like he doesn't know how to use his hands.
Re: Usyk: Number 2 Heavyweight in the world.
Posted: 31 Dec 2018, 21:50
by oogiebe
JCS wrote: ↑31 Dec 2018, 18:37
oogiebe wrote: ↑31 Dec 2018, 18:34
JCS wrote: ↑31 Dec 2018, 18:33
I'm sure you guys will have fun with this..
So if all boxers moved up to Heavyweight on Boxrec, here's your Top 10 by points:
1 Anthony Joshua
2 Oleksandr Usyk
3 Saul Alvarez
4 Deontay Wilder
5 Tyson Fury
6 Gennady Golovkin
7 Terence Crawford
8 Eleider Alvarez
9 Alexander Povetkin
10 Mairis Briedis
...ouch...!
I guess we'll never know.
I'm curious if these type of freak shows ever happened in boxing.. will need to do some research to get some bearing for comparison.
Here's the top 25...
Code: Select all
669 Anthony Joshua
488 Oleksandr Usyk
323 Saul Alvarez
319 Deontay Wilder
278 Tyson Fury
250 Gennady Golovkin
245 Terence Crawford
243 Eleider Alvarez
229 Alexander Povetkin
227 Mairis Briedis
226 Callum Smith
225 Dillian Whyte
224 Oleksandr Gvozdyk
197 Jarrell Miller
176 Kubrat Pulev
160 Luis Ortiz
158 Badou Jack
155 Dmitry Bivol
151 Vasiliy Lomachenko
134 Krzysztof Glowacki
134 Manny Pacquiao
131 Errol Spence Jr
130 Murat Gassiev
125 Dominic Breazeale
123 Shawn Porter
Fun match-ups in there..
We sort of had one with FMJ's last debacle. Like a grown man v. a second grader. At least Tenshin isn't rated on BoxRec. Or maybe he is now!
Re: Usyk: Number 2 Heavyweight in the world.
Posted: 31 Dec 2018, 21:51
by oogiebe
Lackeos wrote: ↑31 Dec 2018, 21:49
Saul Alvarez over Tyson Fury and Vasiliy Lomachenko over Krzysztof Glowacki. Somehow I doubt it would pan out like that.
I'd like to see Usyk fight a top 8 heavyweight before he is granted with an automatic top 3 ranking (by the community, not the computerized rankings). It even feels weird giving Usyk a #4 ranking when he hasn't fought one of the top 8 240+ pounders like Ortiz, Pulev, Povetkin, Whyte, and Miller.
Agreed. For the umpteenth time...