David Haye picks up the pieces.

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 20 Oct 2004, 11:06

Could be back on December 10th by the sounds of this interview..

http://www.secondsout.com/UK/news.cfm?ccs=228&cs=14704

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 20 Oct 2004, 11:29

Yep, good to see he's not too dispirited.

I do think that too many people are writing him off. The same people who were talking about him like the second coming, are now criticising him for being too cocky.

The whole point about the fight with Thompson is that it was risky, and that he was inexperienced, well, we saw what happened, hopefully he's learnt that power and speed aren't the only ways of winning, and he'll come again.

A loss at this stage may well be a good thing. If he had gotten by Thompson, he would most likely have been dismantled at world level, and waited in the queue a while to get back. If he learns his lesson early on all the better.

Fair play to the man, he's accepted that he cocked up, let's hope he doesn't make the same mistake again.

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 20 Oct 2004, 11:38

David Haye picks up the pieces...off his jaw lying on Wembley ring canvas. Lol a little harsh i know, i hope he comes again...Boxing is all about taking risks and i applaud him for taking a big risk with a proven campaigner like Thompson. Let's hope he learns his lessons and returns even stronger.

Chris the fighter · Post by **Chris the fighter** » 20 Oct 2004, 11:47

He was honset enough to admit he got it wrong. No excuses you have to respect that and for a ten fight novice to fight an experienced fighter like the Cat again you have to give him kudos. Yeah he lost but maybe a losing early in his career will help him.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 20 Oct 2004, 11:54

Good luck to the guy I say, if he has the strength of character to learn from his mistakes and come back a better fighter then that can only be good.

He took a gamble against a banger and he lost, so what, if he learns from it. Also he has not got the pressure of an unbeaten record to deal with either anymore. The Boxing 'world' is way too obcessed with unbeaten records anyway in my opinion.

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 20 Oct 2004, 12:07

Damn right mate, a loss isn't the end of the world...people need to learn there trade and all the best fighters lose at some point. How many times does a guy with an unbeaten record come unstuck badly? And gets found out at the highest level that he cant fight.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 20 Oct 2004, 12:15

Yep, and some guys mentally never recover from the shock that they aren't world beaters at the first try. Look at a list of long-reigning world champions from the last 30 years, and I bet the majority were beaten some time early in their career, especially in the lower weights. The fixation on unbeaten records really came along with the prominence of TV, it's a way of selling the fight.

I think it's a good point about him not having to worry about that unbeaten tag now.

He may also find it easier to get matchups now that he is seen as being vulnerable.

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 20 Oct 2004, 12:16

I reckon he went in with a plan, but soon as he saw Carl staggering in the first few minutes, just thought f*** it and went for broke.

He just needed a bit more experience, and let's face it, he had next to none going in.

Be interesting to see what type of opponent they go for on 10/12.

mrbassie · Post by **mrbassie** » 20 Oct 2004, 15:19

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Yep, good to see he's not too dispirited.

I do think that too many people are writing him off. The same people who were talking about him like the second coming, are now criticising him for being too cocky.

The whole point about the fight with Thompson is that it was risky, and that he was inexperienced, well, we saw what happened, hopefully he's learnt that power and speed aren't the only ways of winning, and he'll come again.

A loss at this stage may well be a good thing. If he had gotten by Thompson, he would most likely have been dismantled at world level, and waited in the queue a while to get back. If he learns his lesson early on all the better.

Fair play to the man, he's accepted that he cocked up, let's hope he doesn't make the same mistake again.

Couldn't agree more. Have a scone

mrbassie · Post by **mrbassie** » 20 Oct 2004, 15:32

steve689 wrote:David Haye picks up the pieces...off his jaw lying on Wembley ring canvas. Lol a little harsh i know, i hope he comes again...Boxing is all about taking risks and i applaud him for taking a big risk with a proven campaigner like Thompson. Let's hope he learns his lessons and returns even stronger.

Thing is, he didn't go down from a hit on the jaw, it was on the side of the head as against Mock and he was dropped because his neck is skinny and he doesn't tuck his chin down, if he did then his neck muscles would be tensed and he'd take the shot better. He has potential in abundance imo, but he needs to set up in a new gym with more experienced people who will sort his body out as well as his bad habits.

Manos de Oro · Post by **Manos de Oro** » 20 Oct 2004, 19:19

Anyone believe that fighters can be 'chinny' in the temple area? I remember Pacheco saying something like that when Trinidad sparked Troy Waters.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 20 Oct 2004, 20:04

mrbassie wrote:
steve689 wrote:David Haye picks up the pieces...off his jaw lying on Wembley ring canvas. Lol a little harsh i know, i hope he comes again...Boxing is all about taking risks and i applaud him for taking a big risk with a proven campaigner like Thompson. Let's hope he learns his lessons and returns even stronger.
Thing is, he didn't go down from a hit on the jaw, it was on the side of the head as against Mock and he was dropped because his neck is skinny and he doesn't tuck his chin down, if he did then his neck muscles would be tensed and he'd take the shot better. He has potential in abundance imo, but he needs to set up in a new gym with more experienced people who will sort his body out as well as his bad habits.

Yes the point about not turcking the chin down makes sense, maybe shots on the top of the head are going to bend that neck if it's extended.

I also think some fighters seem to be more susceptible to temple shots, remember Herbie hide? That first shot which Bowe landed seemed to barely clip him, but he never really seemed to recover and went down more times than a U-boat commander after that.

Hardhitters11 · Post by **Hardhitters11** » 21 Oct 2004, 08:12

I applaud Haye for going in the ring with the Cat and still think he will be a genuine world champion...

Yes he made schoolboy errors but he had Carl going and wanted to impress so you cant blame him, he is a novice taking on a genuine championship calibre fighter!

Loftgroov · Post by **Loftgroov** » 21 Oct 2004, 09:11

" I really am as confident as ever," insists Haye." In fact I'm more confident in my ability now because I know I can take a shot as well as anyone."

I did find that a rather odd comment though, taking into account what happened...

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 21 Oct 2004, 10:28

That is the one line I found rather odd too. I didn't think it proved anything of the sort. He didn't take anything like the punishment Thompson did, and Thompson isn't known as being titanium chinned by any stretch, it's just he's very hard to finish off.

If anything, that fight showed that Haye can be hurt.

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 21 Oct 2004, 11:14

To be fair, I thought Haye took a few good wacks early on without any problems. I thought one good shot by Carl and it'd be lights out, but just thought Haye would land first and win early.

The Cat reminds me a bit of the great lightheavyweight warrior of the 80's - Matthew Saad Muhammed. He'd take everything thrown at him, look like he was on the verge of defeat, time after time, then come storming back just when you thought he was finished.
Must be Carl's role model I think.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 21 Oct 2004, 11:25

I guess that Haye's getting dropped could be put more down to fatigue, but it does worry me that it was a shot high on the head again. He did take a few decent shots early on, but what's going to happen if he takes a 3-4 punch combination off a decent fighter? He is going to have to improve that defence.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 21 Oct 2004, 12:18

I don't think Haye is 'chinny' as such, yes improvements can be made to his defence as others have already mentioned, he just hasn't got an iron chin thats all, just an average one IMO.