Muhammad Ali: Rankings

[Nile4000]

After he lost to Frazier and Norton, how far did Ali stop in the rankings?

[oogiebe]

https://boxrec.com/media/index.php/The_ ... ght--1970s

[Syntax Error]

After he lost to Frazier and Norton, how far did Ali stop in the rankings?

It would have been impossible for even those corrupt boxing organisations to drop him below 1 or 2, because he worked so hard and proved himself.

After losing to Frazier, he got straight back out there and spent the rest of '71 and the whole of '72 cleaning out the division and was the undoubted number 1 contender.

Coming into '73, he obviously loses to Norton, but beats Ken in an immediate rematch, but Norton still gets a shot at Foreman first, which I don't get, but that's boxing.

[fanman]

i like that ranking page. it really gives a sense of the ebb and flow of history.

so after the norton loss. ali would have been no. 3 contender i guess.

and then ali opted to avenge his defeat to frazier, so norton moved in to the title shot. and very well deserved, coming off 2 good fights v ali.

[sweetsci]

Regarding the "corrupt boxing organizations" (I'm not a fan either), their ratings were actually relatively decent through 1976 or so. That said, the WBA refused to rank Ali until July 1971, presumably over his draft evasion issue.

From The Ring -

Before Frazier 1:

The Ring - April 1971
(as of February 15, 1971)

World Champion: Joe Frazier
1. Muhammad Ali
2. George Foreman
3. Oscar Bonavena
4. Jerry Quarry
5. Mac Foster
6. Henry Cooper
7. George Chuvalo
8. Jose Ibar Urtain
9. Jose Luis Garcia
10. Floyd Patterson

After Frazier 1:

The Ring - May 1971
(as of March 15, 1971)

World Champion: Joe Frazier
1. Muhammad Ali
2. George Foreman
3. Oscar Bonavena
4. Jerry Quarry
5. Mac Foster
6. Henry Cooper
7. George Chuvalo
8. Jose Ibar Urtain
9. Jose Luis Garcia
10. Floyd Patterson

Before Norton 1:

The Ring - May 1973
(as of March 15, 1973)

World Champion: George Foreman
1. Muhammad Ali
2. Joe Frazier
3. Jerry Quarry
4. Jimmy Ellis
5. Ernie Terrell
6. Ron Lyle
7. Floyd Patterson
8. Jose Roman
9. Ken Norton
10. Joe Bugner

After Norton 1:

The Ring - June 1973
(as of April 15, 1973)

World Champion: George Foreman
1. Joe Frazier
2. Ken Norton
3. Muhammad Ali
4. Jerry Quarry
5. Jimmy Ellis
6. Ernie Terrell
7. Ron Lyle
8. Floyd Patterson
9. Jose Roman
10. Joe Bugner

[JohnReed]

After he lost to Frazier and Norton, how far did Ali stop in the rankings?

I can tell you for fact that, at the lowest point in Ali's career during his prime -- which was immediately after losing to Norton in 1973 -- Ali was never rated lower than #3 by any of the boxing magazines. And even then, Ali's #3 rating was only temporary. Generally, in between his title reigns during the 1970 to 1974 years, Ali was the #1 or #2 rated contender.

Champion: George Foreman
1. Joe Frazier
2. Ken Norton
3. Muhammad Ali
4. Jerry Quarry
5. Earnie Shavers
6. Ron Lyle
7. Joe Bugner
8. Oscar Bonavena, or Floyd Patterson, or Jimmy Ellis, etc.

[JohnReed]

Note that I have Jerry Quarry at #4 for that period in 1973. Quarry was the one contender who was on the most impressive winning streak outside of Foreman, Ali, Frazier, and Norton. Yet however much Quarry won, he was never regarded as good enough to rank among the Big Four. In other words, Ali would always rank above Quarry.

My point here is that regarding Ali, no matter how low he sunk during his late prime years (early to mid-1970s), it was inconceivable that he would rate below anyone outside of the Big Four. I think that says it all about Ali's rating following his losses to Frazier and Norton.

[Syntax Error]

Regarding the "corrupt boxing organizations" (I'm not a fan either), their ratings were actually relatively decent through 1976 or so. That said, the WBA refused to rank Ali until July 1971, presumably over his draft evasion issue.

From The Ring -

Before Frazier 1:

The Ring - April 1971
(as of February 15, 1971)

World Champion: Joe Frazier
1. Muhammad Ali
2. George Foreman
3. Oscar Bonavena
4. Jerry Quarry
5. Mac Foster
6. Henry Cooper
7. George Chuvalo
8. Jose Ibar Urtain
9. Jose Luis Garcia
10. Floyd Patterson

After Frazier 1:

The Ring - May 1971
(as of March 15, 1971)

World Champion: Joe Frazier
1. Muhammad Ali
2. George Foreman
3. Oscar Bonavena
4. Jerry Quarry
5. Mac Foster
6. Henry Cooper
7. George Chuvalo
8. Jose Ibar Urtain
9. Jose Luis Garcia
10. Floyd Patterson

Before Norton 1:

The Ring - May 1973
(as of March 15, 1973)

World Champion: George Foreman
1. Muhammad Ali
2. Joe Frazier
3. Jerry Quarry
4. Jimmy Ellis
5. Ernie Terrell
6. Ron Lyle
7. Floyd Patterson
8. Jose Roman
9. Ken Norton
10. Joe Bugner

After Norton 1:

The Ring - June 1973
(as of April 15, 1973)

World Champion: George Foreman
1. Joe Frazier
2. Ken Norton
3. Muhammad Ali
4. Jerry Quarry
5. Jimmy Ellis
6. Ernie Terrell
7. Ron Lyle
8. Floyd Patterson
9. Jose Roman
10. Joe Bugner

Good work sweetsci.

My biggest surprise about those rankings was George Foreman being number 2 as far back as March 1971.

I didn't realise he'd risen that high in the rankings as early as early '71 & makes you wonder why he had to wait almost a further 2 years for a shot?

[JohnReed]

Good work sweetsci.

My biggest surprise about those rankings was George Foreman being number 2 as far back as March 1971.

I didn't realise he'd risen that high in the rankings as early as early '71 & makes you wonder why he had to wait almost a further 2 years for a shot?

My guess is that Foreman's people probably didn't want to rush him into a Frazier fight. Foreman was rated #2 because he had KO'd George Chuvalo in the summer of 1970. That was Foreman's 21st pro fight, and his only world-class match prior to 1971.

Something else to keep in mind is that Ali vs Frazier was the huge money making bout in the works throughout 1970. The "powers that be" were not going to let anything get in the way of that bout. And once that fight -- known as Superfight I -- had been completed, Frazier needed to rest for a long time. That closed out all of 1971. So I guess the real question is how come the alphabets didn't mandate Frazier vs. Foreman for 1972, the earliest time when the bout could have happened, and a point in time when Foreman probably had enough seasoning to handle a title fight.

[Tony1244]

https://boxrec.com/media/index.php/The_ ... ght--1970s

Thing of Beauty

[oogiebe]

https://boxrec.com/media/index.php/The_ ... ght--1970s

Thing of Beauty

At least you actually looked at it. LOL!

[Tony1244]

Thing of Beauty

At least you actually looked at it. LOL!

Of course I looked @ HW Boxing Rankings from the 1970s. I'm only human.

[Syntax Error]

Good work sweetsci.

My biggest surprise about those rankings was George Foreman being number 2 as far back as March 1971.

I didn't realise he'd risen that high in the rankings as early as early '71 & makes you wonder why he had to wait almost a further 2 years for a shot?

My guess is that Foreman's people probably didn't want to rush him into a Frazier fight. Foreman was rated #2 because he had KO'd George Chuvalo in the summer of 1970. That was Foreman's 21st pro fight, and his only world-class match prior to 1971.

Something else to keep in mind is that Ali vs Frazier was the huge money making bout in the works throughout 1970. The "powers that be" were not going to let anything get in the way of that bout. And once that fight -- known as Superfight I -- had been completed, Frazier needed to rest for a long time. That closed out all of 1971. So I guess the real question is how come the alphabets didn't mandate Frazier vs. Foreman for 1972, the earliest time when the bout could have happened, and a point in time when Foreman probably had enough seasoning to handle a title fight.

Thanks for that.

That makes sense.

It would have been interesting to see what transpired had Foreman got his shot a year earlier.

All said and done, Frazier was arguably done after the first Ali fight and Foreman was all wrong for him and the result would probably have been similar.

[JohnReed]

It would have been interesting to see what transpired had Foreman got his shot a year earlier.

All said and done, Frazier was arguably done after the first Ali fight and Foreman was all wrong for him and the result would probably have been similar.

I agree with you completely. Foreman was physically and stylistically all wrong for Frazier. I'm certain that the 1971 and 1972 versions of Foreman would have been too much for the Frazier anytime after Superfight I. They say the first Ali match really took a lot of Frazier, and I believe it.

An interesting question is, could the 1969 or 1970 versions of Foreman have beaten a prime Joe Frazier? It's intriguing to wonder. That's because Foreman -- due to his physical attributes and power -- really had Joe's "number."