The Greatest Countries in Boxing history

The Judge · Post by **The Judge** » 22 Dec 2004, 18:19

I personally think one of the most beautiful things in boxing is when you can tell the nationality of the combatants just by watching them fight. Some of the great boxing-rich countries truly seem to breed the same kinds of fighters.

Great Britian: I always think of great technique. Brtish fighters always seem to have great fundamental skills and are very well trained. Match that with the occasional physical phenomenon (Nigel Benn, Chris Eubank, Naseem Hamed) and you have a great fighter.

Mexico: Hearts bigger than their usually small bodies. A breeding ground for scappy young fighters who have the drive to do whatever is neccesary to win. Great pride in their country. Julio Ceaser Chavez, Salvador Sanchez, Zarate, Barrera, Morales, Vargas (I know he's not actually from Mexico, but ask him and he'll tell you :) )

United States: IMO they are the opposite of the British fighters. A lot of poorly trained physical specimens who never live up to their potential, but every now and hten a special trainer comes along who can mold these brutes into fantastic fighters (Sugars, Thomas Hearns, Ali, Roy Jones Jr.)

Thailand: Thai boxing is an often brutal bloodsport for only the toughest minded combatants. Thia fighters often became relentless buzzsaws of power and speed. The too have great nationalism. Watch Nathachai at 135 lbs. they're ducking him.

Cuba: Great amateur fighters who are often stifled by poor politics and management. Every now and then one manages to slip under the governmental radar and make his mark on the pros (Kid Gavilan).

Comments, arguments?

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 23 Dec 2004, 17:23

I hope your American comment was a joke. The U.S. until the past 5 or so years has DOMINATED the sport of boxing. Gene Tunney, Ray Robinson, Benny Leanord, Joe Louis, Jack Johnson, Michael Spinks etc. etc.
Technical perfection my friend.

I pretty much agree with the rest of your post.

Mongoose · Post by **Mongoose** » 23 Dec 2004, 17:29

Its easier for the us to dominate as all the major titles are basically centred there, before the Queensbury rules Britain used to dominate when it was centred there some more

JC · Post by JC » 23 Dec 2004, 19:33

I think you've been a bit harsh on the Americans there mate! Some of their heavyweights in recent times have been a bit on the podgy side but poorly trained physical specimins come on! Winky Wright, Bernard Hopkins, Gatti, Holyfield (in his prime) and Jake Lamotta, Marciano and Henry Armstrong if you want to go back a bit.

nice post though I like your thinking. I think in recent years Korea has produced boxers with a style all of their own with ultra agressive fighters like Chi. Costa Rico appears to be producing the best boxer-punchers with Trinidad and Cotto but we'll have to see if the trend continues.

klompton · Post by **klompton** » 24 Dec 2004, 01:37

Ha. Judge must be joking. Compare the number and quality of US champions to those in britain and Britain cant even come close both in terms of skill, level of competition, etc. Right now the US has what amounts to three undisputed champions from 147 to 160. Two of those: Wright and Hopkins, are considered among the best fighters in the world. In addition to that Glen Johnson, now regarded as the best light heavy has spent most of his career in the USA in our gyms with our trainers. Another champ of ours is Diego Corrales who has now beaten Casa and Freitas and is about to fight Castillo. Britain has two paper champs in Calzaghe and Nelson and both are so scared to leave their own borders that their careers are rapidly becoming a joke. I wont even mention Hatton who shouldnt call himself a champ without laughing while Tszyu is still breathing. Britain is a country where a guy like Hatton or a guy like Hamed can be called great and sellout an arena without ever having fought anyone. I think this is funny considering if you compare the careers of Britains "great" fighters against their American counterparts they pale. Sheesh the Brits get one HW champ in 100 years (who cant decide if hes canadian, jamaican, britain, or american) and they think they rule the boxing world.

Mongoose · Post by **Mongoose** » 24 Dec 2004, 01:43

Mongoose"]Its easier for the us to dominate as all the major titles are basically centred there, before the Queensbury rules Britain used to dominate when it was centred there some more

Alot of US fighters also dont leave their own borders

The Judge · Post by **The Judge** » 24 Dec 2004, 02:41

I was speaking of the culture of US boxing. I think that great fighters that come out are the ones that get well trained and are well conditioned.

Tantum · Post by **Tantum** » 24 Dec 2004, 06:36

J-C wrote:Costa Rico appears to be producing the best boxer-punchers with Trinidad and Cotto but we'll have to see if the trend continues.

That's Peurto Rico. :P

barry · Post by **barry** » 24 Dec 2004, 06:45

>>>>Its easier for the us to dominate as all the major titles are basically centred there<<<<<

The WBC is in Latin America, the WBA is in Latin America, though I believe the IBF is USA based, but the U.S. dominated when there was only one title and only eight divisions! It's since the advent of the alphabet soups and 10,000 world champions that other countries have been able to enjoy a bit of success.

JC · Post by JC » 24 Dec 2004, 07:42

Tantum wrote:
J-C wrote:Costa Rico appears to be producing the best boxer-punchers with Trinidad and Cotto but we'll have to see if the trend continues.
That's Peurto Rico. :P

fornicating hell what a dumbass typo, sorry was getting was pretty late when I wrote that. Good job I'm not a ring announcer! (or a travel adgent for that matter)

ABA Boxing · Post by **ABA Boxing** » 24 Dec 2004, 11:30

dempseyfire wrote:I hope your American comment was a joke. The U.S. until the past 5 or so years has DOMINATED the sport of boxing. Gene Tunney, Ray Robinson, Benny Leanord, Joe Louis, Jack Johnson, Michael Spinks etc. etc.
Technical perfection my friend.

I pretty much agree with the rest of your post.

5 years ago!!!

Problem with this, is the size of the country. UK has lost interest in Boxing, hardley any TV coverage. If you aint got sky you dont see anything.

The amateur clubs are strugling to stay active. The US make it hard for any UK fighter to get a shot at the title. (hardley any deserve a shot, but the few that do never get it)

Soon there will be no such thing as a World Title because only US fighters fight for them.

UK is stuck in a time warp, we hopefully will become great again. We can drop the shit off our tv like golf, tennis and horse racing on every god damn channel.

Cuba has great fighters that could clear up the rubbish world scene but there laws have stopped that.

Russia have some great fighters but never seem to do anything about it. I think there is to much Govermant control there.

As a whole Boxing is fighting itself,

US boxing is number one as there is nothing else to compare it with!

ABA Boxing · Post by **ABA Boxing** » 24 Dec 2004, 11:32

Anyone in the street couldnt name the Brittish heavyweight champion, i just asked my mum she said Lewis something!

elmersalsa · Post by **elmersalsa** » 28 Dec 2004, 17:14

I got to say, that in order to make a mark in boxing, you have to fight in America because America is where the big bucks and the greatest promoters are.

In my opinion, there is no "The Greatest Boxing Nation" because some countries dominate depending on weight classes.

Japanese, Koreans and Thais dominate the flyweight divisions.
Mexicans used to dominate the bantamweight divisions
Americans always dominated and still dominate the heavyweight and other heavy divisions like lightheavys, cruisers and middleweights

Even though of all this, America has produced more all-time greats and hall of famers and world class fighters than any other country. America has a record of more of 370 world champions since 1882.
I got to say that the best fighting city is Philadelphia, PA

lumpymo · Post by **lumpymo** » 04 Jan 2005, 21:28

"I think you've been a bit harsh on the Americans there mate! Some of their heavyweights in recent times have been a bit on the podgy side but poorly trained physical specimins come on! Winky Wright, Bernard Hopkins, Gatti, Holyfield (in his prime) and Jake Lamotta, Marciano and Henry Armstrong if you want to go back a bit"

Gatti if your talking about Arturo Gatti, he is Canadian.

American fighters also have the advantage of most of the title fights are in their country. Most of the weight classes that a country seems to "rule" is because they have that many more fighters, people at that weight range. The orient is big on smaller fighters, like hispanic countries do (Mexico and south of their), while the bigger fighters are more in America, especially the heavyweights and if you notice they are almost all black, not surprising that blacks dominate most sports now in that they were bred back in the slave days for size, strength, endurance etc...
Britain has an ever shrinking pool of fighters to choose from, "the Prince" was a fellow from Yemen I think, a middle eastern country anyways, and Lewis who was born in Britain was raised in Canada, learned his boxing in Canada, and was trained by Canadians up until he turned pro. Besides that Lewis was no stinking hell anyways, glass jaw (knocked out twice), and didn't like the rough going, bit of a stinker if you ask me.

cheers M.O.

joshua · Post by **joshua** » 05 Jan 2005, 03:46

I believe that boxing isn't so much a country issue than it is an ethnic issue for instance my love for boxing is in the early 20th centuary and with that the progression from english boxers to irish boxers to jewish boxer to african american boxers to hispanic boxers. Boxing has given the less fortunate in the racist american colture the chance to be icons. This has made for supplying the hope for the less fortunate in this country to become a major part of society. For instance the irish were hated when they came to america but due to the respect they earned in boxing circles they began to thrive and even became political bosses in New York City because of it. Next the Jews came to prominance and thanks to Benny Leonard, King L:evinsky, Phil Rosenberg, Sandy Saddler, Lew Tendler and others the Jews in this country felt that they too could contribute to society. Ali turned to Islam which was historic at the time and lead to others such as Kareem Abdoul-Jabar who is not only a hall of fame basketball player but also a great philanthrapist. Boxing in america does not just simply stand for people beating the crap out of others but stands for the struggle that minorities have always faced in this country. Even today the hispanic population is on of the largest growing minorites but Juan Diaz is showing that he may be a boxer for the money but he is still going to college to better himself and others draw from this spirit that they may not be boxers but they try and contribute on a larger scale.

Onekrazyrican · Post by **Onekrazyrican** » 07 Jan 2005, 17:23

nice take on the contries but what about Puerto Rico?

a 100 x 35 sq miles island that has produced nearly 50 world titlists (some say 50 but thats counting IBA and any other crappy belt, Its still over 40 of the major 4) In terms of styles ide say rican boxing is rich in diferences, i mean you can go from pure boxers like Benitez to ko artists like Gomez and Rosario to the flamboyant Camacho. Theres a new trend inspired by Trinidad that has more kids going the boxer puncher way and a new fascination for the left hook thats becoming a signature move. Rican boxing has a history of fierce rivalries with Mexican boxers which is the other greatest hispanic boxing nation. Althought when you look at size or champions per capita its safe to say Puerto Rico does it better ;)

tonyevs · Post by **tonyevs** » 07 Jan 2005, 18:57

America is the number 1, without doubt.
Britain has produced the odd `good` fighter in the last 50yrs.
America has produced many `great` fighters in that time.

The South American fighters do well in the sub-154lb limit.

lumpymo · Post by **lumpymo** » 13 Jan 2005, 21:45

You seem to forget Carlos Monzon, who was better than probobly any other middleweight with the exception of SRR, Victor Galindez a lightheavy, Felix Trinidad from welter to middleweight, Roberto Duran who made it all the way to middleweight title, and probobly a few that I am forgetting.
Hispanics are smaller by comparison in height, and size to black americans, but don't forget how they got their size and strength in the first place, selective breeding by the american slave masters and traders.

cheers M.O.

klompton · Post by **klompton** » 14 Jan 2005, 00:03

Monzon was of European descent. Its also highly debatable whether he was better than most every other middle.

tonyevs · Post by **tonyevs** » 14 Jan 2005, 11:50

You confuse me by saying that Monzon was probably better than any middleweight except Ray Robinson.
What makes you rate Ray Robinson as number 1, he lost quite a few times at that weight you know, and to be honest people forget(or don’t know ) that his best weight was welter, that is where he was arguably the `best`.

Galindez was a champ at light heavy but will never be remembered as one of the greats at the weight will he, unlike so many of the world champions from S.America at lighter weights.

Tito fits what I said about 154lb and down, his best weight being 147lb, he got shown the door by Hopkins at middleweight, and was lucky to get the nod over Oscar at a lighter weight.
And Duran lost too often when he went above welter to be considered anything at middle.

There will be exceptions to the rule but in general they do tend to be better in the smaller weight

lumpymo · Post by **lumpymo** » 22 Jan 2005, 13:51

Carlos Monzón was born on August 7, 1942, in San Javier, province of Santa Fe, Argentina. He grew up in a humble home in as the fifth of thirteen children and at the age of nine he began to practice boxing.
NOT EUROPEAN!

cheers M.O.

klompton · Post by **klompton** » 22 Jan 2005, 15:08

lumpymo wrote:Carlos Monzón was born on August 7, 1942, in San Javier, province of Santa Fe, Argentina. He grew up in a humble home in as the fifth of thirteen children and at the age of nine he began to practice boxing.
NOT EUROPEAN!

cheers M.O.

I said he was of European DESCENT. Meaning his ancestors were European. As many Argentines are. Argentina is the only country south of the united states which has a majority population of European descendants. This is a why you get so many argentine fighters who are actually Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, German, etc.

Cap · Post by **Cap** » 22 Jan 2005, 15:45

klompton wrote:
lumpymo wrote:Carlos Monzón was born on August 7, 1942, in San Javier, province of Santa Fe, Argentina. He grew up in a humble home in as the fifth of thirteen children and at the age of nine he began to practice boxing.
NOT EUROPEAN!

cheers M.O.
I said he was of European DESCENT. Meaning his ancestors were European. As many Argentines are. Argentina is the only country south of the united states which has a majority population of European descendants. This is a why you get so many argentine fighters who are actually Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, German, etc.

Just like Yanks, eh? :)

Broncano · Post by **Broncano** » 22 Jan 2005, 18:24

klompton wrote:
I said he was of European DESCENT. Meaning his ancestors were European. As many Argentines are. Argentina is the only country south of the united states which has a majority population of European descendants. This is a why you get so many argentine fighters who are actually Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, German, etc.

That holds truth for virtually every inhabitant south of the Rio Grande. In that sense, Monzon's european descent is as relevant as Ray Robinson's or Ali's African descent.

Chuck1052 · Post by **Chuck1052** » 26 Jan 2005, 03:38

It is my opinion that both the Philippines and
Australia should be added as great boxing
countries. Yes, their importance isn't
as apparent in modern times, but their
contributions were enormous before
1950.

- Chuck Johnston

The Greatest Countries in Boxing history

The Greatest Countries in Boxing history

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