BoxRec

they say the clash of these 2 irish heavyweight champions Jack Dempsey vs Gene Tunney, that tunney went down for 15 seconds in the 5th came back and won , and more recently fury v wilder the first fight, people said that was a long count which i dont agree , i just dont think the count means that much, i think the count is for the reff to give the boxer a once over and see is he fit to fight on , it isnt wwe

a sensationalised non-issue. jack
forgot the new rule, the ref did what
he was supposed to do and tunney
was clearly able to beat the count
with ease.

way more interesting yet way less
sensationalised or even talked about
is the fact that George Foreman did
beat the count against Ali at the end
of the round, yet was not allowed to
continue.

man wrote: ↑29 May 2020, 16:41 a sensationalised non-issue. jack
forgot the new rule, the ref did what
he was supposed to do and tunney
was clearly able to beat the count
with ease.

way more interesting yet way less
sensationalised or even talked about
is the fact that George Foreman did
beat the count against Ali at the end
of the round, yet was not allowed to
continue.

i agree i hate to see a fighter counted out when he is genuinely getting up and misses the count by a second or 2 , you know when a fighter dont want it no more , and these seconds mean nothing in advantage really , i think it is from the old cheating days take a knee

man wrote: ↑29 May 2020, 16:41 a sensationalised non-issue. jack
forgot the new rule, the ref did what
he was supposed to do and tunney
was clearly able to beat the count
with ease.

way more interesting yet way less
sensationalised or even talked about
is the fact that George Foreman did
beat the count against Ali at the end
of the round, yet was not allowed to
continue.

If you listen to the fight you get that impression. If you time it, it appeared GF was a fraction of a second late. Sounds like he got up @ 8, but it may have been the fight announcer counting.

brilo33 wrote: ↑29 May 2020, 16:48

man wrote: ↑29 May 2020, 16:41 a sensationalised non-issue. jack
forgot the new rule, the ref did what
he was supposed to do and tunney
was clearly able to beat the count
with ease.

way more interesting yet way less
sensationalised or even talked about
is the fact that George Foreman did
beat the count against Ali at the end
of the round, yet was not allowed to
continue.

i agree i hate to see a fighter counted out when he is genuinely getting up and misses the count by a second or 2 , you know when a fighter dont want it no more , and these seconds mean nothing in advantage really , i think it is from the old cheating days take a knee

Foreman was counted out. Period. He didn't complain one bit after Clayton waived it off. Non-issue.

oogiebe wrote: ↑29 May 2020, 16:52

brilo33 wrote: ↑29 May 2020, 16:48
i agree i hate to see a fighter counted out when he is genuinely getting up and misses the count by a second or 2 , you know when a fighter dont want it no more , and these seconds mean nothing in advantage really , i think it is from the old cheating days take a knee

Foreman was counted out. Period. He didn't complain one bit after Clayton waived it off. Non-issue.

I don't think Foreman's lack of protest answers the issue, but a stopwatch does. But either way he was cooked.

If Dempsey had gone to a neutral corner immediately, it looked like Gene would have gotten up at the count of, 7,8, or 9.

Of course if Gene was slow like Foreman, or like Quarry against Chuvalo, we may have seen a rubber match.

Tony1244 wrote: ↑29 May 2020, 16:57

oogiebe wrote: ↑29 May 2020, 16:52

Foreman was counted out. Period. He didn't complain one bit after Clayton waived it off. Non-issue.

I don't think Foreman's lack of protest answers the issue, but a stopwatch does. But either way he was cooked.

Ref's count and seconds aren't necessarily the same.

man wrote: ↑29 May 2020, 16:41 a sensationalised non-issue. jack
forgot the new rule, the ref did what
he was supposed to do and tunney
was clearly able to beat the count
with ease.

way more interesting yet way less
sensationalised or even talked about
is the fact that George Foreman did
beat the count against Ali at the end
of the round, yet was not allowed to
continue.

Foreman isn't interesting at all, it's just a bunch of people getting confused and thinking Sheridan was the official countkeeper, he exhausted and finished

Tunney's case is more interesting since he got up and won the fight. Often in cases like this I think the boxer is following the count and in control, but Tunney doesn't even look at the ref until he's been down for what would've been 9. Not sure he was really aware where the ref was at before that. If Dempsey had gone straight to the corner it's conceivable Tunney would've been counted out

but the issuse is what is an extra couple of seconds any way . it aint a huge advange any way , i mean low blows are the biggest way to cheat time in your favour

Well a few seconds can be the difference between getting counted out and not getting counted out

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑29 May 2020, 17:12 Well a few seconds can be the difference between getting counted out and not getting counted out

we know that mggie , but should it be ?

Gotta draw the line somewhere

You not think count outs should be a thing?

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑29 May 2020, 17:16 Gotta draw the line somewhere

You not think count outs should be a thing?

i do , but what i said is i think it is more for the reff to give the fighter a once over to see if he is able to continue ,so if he stars a little late or slow dont think that has a big bearing on a fight than counting a fighter out to quick

oogiebe wrote: ↑29 May 2020, 16:52

brilo33 wrote: ↑29 May 2020, 16:48
i agree i hate to see a fighter counted out when he is genuinely getting up and misses the count by a second or 2 , you know when a fighter dont want it no more , and these seconds mean nothing in advantage really , i think it is from the old cheating days take a knee

Foreman was counted out. Period. He didn't complain one bit after Clayton waived it off. Non-issue.

X2
Foreman's gloves were still on the floor at ten

brilo33 wrote: ↑29 May 2020, 17:22

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑29 May 2020, 17:16 Gotta draw the line somewhere

You not think count outs should be a thing?

i do , but what i said is i think it is more for the reff to give the fighter a once over to see if he is able to continue ,so if he stars a little late or slow dont think that has a big bearing on a fight than counting a fighter out to quick

Rules are if a fighter is unable to get up after a count of ten, the fight is over. You want a rule change?

oogiebe wrote: ↑29 May 2020, 17:38

brilo33 wrote: ↑29 May 2020, 17:22
i do , but what i said is i think it is more for the reff to give the fighter a once over to see if he is able to continue ,so if he stars a little late or slow dont think that has a big bearing on a fight than counting a fighter out to quick

Rules are if a fighter is unable to get up after a count of ten, the fight is over. You want a rule change?

no i dont think it needs to be, i was just saying fights like tunney might of had a slighty longer count , i dont think it should be taken away from the win,

brilo33 wrote: ↑29 May 2020, 17:44

oogiebe wrote: ↑29 May 2020, 17:38
Rules are if a fighter is unable to get up after a count of ten, the fight is over. You want a rule change?

no i dont think it needs to be, i was just saying fights like tunney might of had a slighty longer count , i dont think it should be taken away from the win,

I don't think it takes away from Tunney's win. Didn't he drop Dempsey the next round?

oogiebe wrote: ↑29 May 2020, 17:56

brilo33 wrote: ↑29 May 2020, 17:44

no i dont think it needs to be, i was just saying fights like tunney might of had a slighty longer count , i dont think it should be taken away from the win,

I don't think it takes away from Tunney's win. Didn't he drop Dempsey the next round?

,exactly ,even the fury wilder first fight when people say fury got an extra half second count he never , ,it means nothing there is also loads of fights when a reff has given a slow count to a boxer who doesnt want to get up either,

brilo33 wrote: ↑29 May 2020, 18:03

oogiebe wrote: ↑29 May 2020, 17:56
I don't think it takes away from Tunney's win. Didn't he drop Dempsey the next round?

,exactly ,even the fury wilder first fight when people say fury got an extra half second count he never , ,it means nothing there is also loads of fights when a reff has given a slow count to a boxer who doesnt want to get up either,

Now what if Dempsey went back to the corner straight away, but the ref just stood there, waiting 5 seconds to start counting, and then Tunney stumbles up at 9.5 and wins. Would that take away from the win at all do you think.

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑29 May 2020, 18:07

brilo33 wrote: ↑29 May 2020, 18:03

,exactly ,even the fury wilder first fight when people say fury got an extra half second count he never , ,it means nothing there is also loads of fights when a reff has given a slow count to a boxer who doesnt want to get up either,

Now what if Dempsey went back to the corner straight away, but the ref just stood there, waiting 5 seconds to start counting, and then Tunney stumbles up at 9.5 and wins. Would that take away from the win at all do you think.

Yeah, but that didn't happen.

oogiebe wrote: ↑29 May 2020, 18:10

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑29 May 2020, 18:07

Now what if Dempsey went back to the corner straight away, but the ref just stood there, waiting 5 seconds to start counting, and then Tunney stumbles up at 9.5 and wins. Would that take away from the win at all do you think.

Yeah, but that didn't happen.

thank god you wrote that. i thought this rum is sending me of me nut

oogiebe wrote: ↑29 May 2020, 18:10

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑29 May 2020, 18:07

Now what if Dempsey went back to the corner straight away, but the ref just stood there, waiting 5 seconds to start counting, and then Tunney stumbles up at 9.5 and wins. Would that take away from the win at all do you think.

Yeah, but that didn't happen.

Duh, most of what we talk about never happened, just curious what he thinks of that scenario

brilo33 wrote: ↑29 May 2020, 18:12

oogiebe wrote: ↑29 May 2020, 18:10
Yeah, but that didn't happen.

thank god you wrote that. i thought this rum is sending me of me nut

So what do you think?

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑29 May 2020, 18:07

brilo33 wrote: ↑29 May 2020, 18:03

,exactly ,even the fury wilder first fight when people say fury got an extra half second count he never , ,it means nothing there is also loads of fights when a reff has given a slow count to a boxer who doesnt want to get up either,

Now what if Dempsey went back to the corner straight away, but the ref just stood there, waiting 5 seconds to start counting, and then Tunney stumbles up at 9.5 and wins. Would that take away from the win at all do you think.

i get what your saying , maybe in rules of the game wise yes , but that is what iam getting at , the count is a bit of a pain in boxing.