Joe Frazier vs. Tyson Fury

Tevfik1907 · Post by **Tevfik1907** » 27 Sep 2020, 11:10

WBC & WBA Heavyweight Champion Joe Frazier (1970-73) vs. WBA Heavyweight Champion Tyson Fury (2015)

Bodyshot3 · Post by **Bodyshot3** » 27 Sep 2020, 15:22

I'd go for Fury on points and actually quite comfortably.......

......the sheer size, height and reach of Tyson is a definite factor; he's a modern, kingsize monster compared to Joe.

But really what Fury always brings to most of his battles is that he is a huge geezer who can't be bullied and is also quite hard to hit square in the face or back-up for very long and he ain't just standing there like a modern-day Gerry Cooney and moves a whole lot better than Wlad K as well.

He blocks shots on his arms, uses the whole of the ring well and works like a HW who is 25/30 lbs lighter.

scorpio83 · Post by **scorpio83** » 27 Sep 2020, 17:43

Smokin Joe by WUD 15 after bobbing and weaving through Fury's jabs with his speed and body punching him. He also nailed Fury with big left hooks. Fury would fight defensively in survival mode and Frazier would win by decision. Sometimes, size don't matter.

Jason Calara · Post by **Jason Calara** » 27 Sep 2020, 18:27

Joe frazer is quicker than wilder and have more movement and fight with pressure.
JF by ud

Onetimeonly · Post by **Onetimeonly** » 28 Sep 2020, 04:45

Frazier by mid round stoppage. The pace and bodywork too much for fury.

AntonioMartin · Post by **AntonioMartin** » 29 Sep 2020, 12:22

Frazier

gilgamesh · Post by **gilgamesh** » 29 Sep 2020, 12:28

I could see either Frazier KO'ing him or as some have suggested I could see Tyson Fury going into a defensive shell after getting caught with some big shots, and being a lot more reluctant to engage.

Also Joe's body attack would probably have him gasping for air by the middle part of the fight.

I think Joe would probably knock him out, but if not he'd beat him by UD.

Fury ain't never dealt with a guy who has that kinda head movement. I think he'd be missing A LOT of his punches against Joe.

Evander · Post by **Evander** » 30 Sep 2020, 03:05

What did Frazier weigh ?
220-225
Styles
Yeah Frazier has him bang to rights stylewise, size, Fury hits you with a 250 pound jab, that punch will put you in your place.

Tevfik1907 · Post by **Tevfik1907** » 30 Sep 2020, 07:36

Evander wrote: ↑30 Sep 2020, 03:05 What did Frazier weigh ?
220-225
Styles
Yeah Frazier has him bang to rights stylewise, size, Fury hits you with a 250 pound jab, that punch will put you in your place.

Frazier was 230 lbs, it's around the same weight as Otto Wallin, who almost TKOed Fury via a very nasty cut.

DrDuke · Post by **DrDuke** » 30 Sep 2020, 08:21

Tevfik1907 wrote: ↑30 Sep 2020, 07:36
Evander wrote: ↑30 Sep 2020, 03:05 What did Frazier weigh ?
220-225
Styles
Yeah Frazier has him bang to rights stylewise, size, Fury hits you with a 250 pound jab, that punch will put you in your place.
Frazier was 230 lbs, it's around the same weight as Otto Wallin, who almost TKOed Fury via a very nasty cut.

Wut? Frazier's normal fighting weight was around 200-205 ibs. He was 205, when he won Ali. He became bigger after that. He was 224 in Manila. He was 229, when he returned overweight from the retirement for a one fight vs Cummings.

Tevfik1907 · Post by **Tevfik1907** » 30 Sep 2020, 09:01

DrDuke wrote: ↑30 Sep 2020, 08:21
Tevfik1907 wrote: ↑30 Sep 2020, 07:36
Evander wrote: ↑30 Sep 2020, 03:05 What did Frazier weigh ?
220-225
Styles
Yeah Frazier has him bang to rights stylewise, size, Fury hits you with a 250 pound jab, that punch will put you in your place.
Frazier was 230 lbs, it's around the same weight as Otto Wallin, who almost TKOed Fury via a very nasty cut.
Wut? Frazier's normal fighting weight was around 200-205 ibs. He was 205, when he won Ali. He became bigger after that. He was 224 in Manila. He was 229, when he returned overweight from the retirement for a one fight vs Cummings.

Yes, that's what I was talking about, as you can see it doesn't mean anything for his level.

Ambling Alp II · Post by **Ambling Alp II** » 30 Sep 2020, 10:09

Take a look at how unimpressive Fury has been against opponents where he has a huge weight advantage. Against guys not even remotely as good as Frazier.
Frazier's pressure and power would be too much. Fury has never had to deal with anything like that. Frazier by stoppage in the 8-10 round range.

Woldemar · Post by **Woldemar** » 30 Sep 2020, 10:37

Frazier by TKO 9-11

ruin795 · Post by **ruin795** » 30 Sep 2020, 19:21

Fury by wide decision. Something like 118-110. That is if he didn't stop him.

Evander · Post by **Evander** » 01 Oct 2020, 19:43

Tevfik1907 wrote: ↑30 Sep 2020, 07:36
Evander wrote: ↑30 Sep 2020, 03:05 What did Frazier weigh ?
220-225
Styles
Yeah Frazier has him bang to rights stylewise, size, Fury hits you with a 250 pound jab, that punch will put you in your place.
Frazier was 230 lbs, it's around the same weight as Otto Wallin, who almost TKOed Fury via a very nasty cut.

It always a touch call when a lighter Heavyweight is compared to a big Heavyweight.
Almost seems impossible to say anything bad about Joe Frazier, however the weight disparity between Tyson and himself would probably be too much even for Joe.
Doesn't mean Joe is not remembered as a top level Heavyweight because he is in my book, but if one boxer outweighs another by as much as 30, 40 or 50 pounds it's going to be a hard nights work.

Tevfik1907 · Post by **Tevfik1907** » 01 Oct 2020, 20:38

Evander wrote: ↑01 Oct 2020, 19:43
Tevfik1907 wrote: ↑30 Sep 2020, 07:36
Evander wrote: ↑30 Sep 2020, 03:05 What did Frazier weigh ?
220-225
Styles
Yeah Frazier has him bang to rights stylewise, size, Fury hits you with a 250 pound jab, that punch will put you in your place.
Frazier was 230 lbs, it's around the same weight as Otto Wallin, who almost TKOed Fury via a very nasty cut.
It always a touch call when a lighter Heavyweight is compared to a big Heavyweight.
Almost seems impossible to say anything bad about Joe Frazier, however the weight disparity between Tyson and himself would probably be too much even for Joe.
Doesn't mean Joe is not remembered as a top level Heavyweight because he is in my book, but if one boxer outweighs another by as much as 30, 40 or 50 pounds it's going to be a hard nights work.

I see you are another legendary heavyweight champion boxer butterbean fan

Evander · Post by **Evander** » 01 Oct 2020, 20:44

That's a terrible example, but a funny one none the less

Cojimar 1946 · Post by **Cojimar 1946** » 04 Oct 2020, 09:30

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑30 Sep 2020, 10:09 Take a look at how unimpressive Fury has been against opponents where he has a huge weight advantage. Against guys not even remotely as good as Frazier.
Frazier's pressure and power would be too much. Fury has never had to deal with anything like that. Frazier by stoppage in the 8-10 round range.

Were any of these guys 5'11 and 205 pounds? Generally Fury has not had an 8 inch height advantage and 50 pound weight advantage over even his smaller opponents. Otto Wallin for example is smaller than Fury but still way bigger than Frazier.

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 04 Oct 2020, 09:57

Tyson Fury has also improved tremendously in the last few years, so I wouldn't put much stock in a "Steve Cunningham put him down argument".

margaret thatcher · Post by **margaret thatcher** » 04 Oct 2020, 15:44

Going by Steve C, Wlad and Wilder shoulda both stopped him, tbh even Chisora is probably better than Cunn at hw. He's obviously improved, though smoking Joe is a beast of course

margaret thatcher · Post by **margaret thatcher** » 04 Oct 2020, 15:51

Cojimar 1946 wrote: ↑04 Oct 2020, 09:30
Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑30 Sep 2020, 10:09 Take a look at how unimpressive Fury has been against opponents where he has a huge weight advantage. Against guys not even remotely as good as Frazier.
Frazier's pressure and power would be too much. Fury has never had to deal with anything like that. Frazier by stoppage in the 8-10 round range.
Were any of these guys 5'11 and 205 pounds? Generally Fury has not had an 8 inch height advantage and 50 pound weight advantage over even his smaller opponents. Otto Wallin for example is smaller than Fury but still way bigger than Frazier.

lol, i know size is often overdone, but i'm still waiting for the 5'11 200 pound dudes who apparently have the 'real size advantage' to take over the division

Ambling Alp II · Post by **Ambling Alp II** » 04 Oct 2020, 17:02

Cojimar 1946 wrote: ↑04 Oct 2020, 09:30
Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑30 Sep 2020, 10:09 Take a look at how unimpressive Fury has been against opponents where he has a huge weight advantage. Against guys not even remotely as good as Frazier.
Frazier's pressure and power would be too much. Fury has never had to deal with anything like that. Frazier by stoppage in the 8-10 round range.
Were any of these guys 5'11 and 205 pounds? Generally Fury has not had an 8 inch height advantage and 50 pound weight advantage over even his smaller opponents. Otto Wallin for example is smaller than Fury but still way bigger than Frazier.

No, so what?
Cunningham was a no-name who weighed 210. Gave Fury way too much trouble. Draw with Wilder who weighed 212.
Look at Frazier's fight against Ali, who was better than Fury in just about every way. He stopped Mathis, who was almost as fat as Fury.
Take a look at what has happened historically when a great fighter around Frazier's size fights someone much bigger. In real life, the smaller great fighter usually wins.
But in mythical fights, the heavier guy always has a "weight " advantage". In real life, the scale doesn't help you once the bell rings.

Cojimar 1946 · Post by **Cojimar 1946** » 08 Oct 2020, 08:47

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑04 Oct 2020, 17:02
Cojimar 1946 wrote: ↑04 Oct 2020, 09:30
Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑30 Sep 2020, 10:09 Take a look at how unimpressive Fury has been against opponents where he has a huge weight advantage. Against guys not even remotely as good as Frazier.
Frazier's pressure and power would be too much. Fury has never had to deal with anything like that. Frazier by stoppage in the 8-10 round range.
Were any of these guys 5'11 and 205 pounds? Generally Fury has not had an 8 inch height advantage and 50 pound weight advantage over even his smaller opponents. Otto Wallin for example is smaller than Fury but still way bigger than Frazier.
No, so what?
Cunningham was a no-name who weighed 210. Gave Fury way too much trouble. Draw with Wilder who weighed 212.
Look at Frazier's fight against Ali, who was better than Fury in just about every way. He stopped Mathis, who was almost as fat as Fury.
Take a look at what has happened historically when a great fighter around Frazier's size fights someone much bigger. In real life, the smaller great fighter usually wins.
But in mythical fights, the heavier guy always has a "weight " advantage". In real life, the scale doesn't help you once the bell rings.

I don't think we can draw many conclusions based on what happened in earlier eras.

Bob Fitzsimmons won the heavyweight title and was smaller than todays middleweights. Are we supposed to infer that we don't need a middleweight division and that everyone above 147 should fight each other? I don't think the Charlo brothers, Alvarez, etc would be thrilled about having to fight the top heavyweights in the world. So there would seem to be a flaw in your line of logic. Hearns is roughly the same size as Fitzsimmons, actually slightly bigger and rated by many as a far better fighter. That doesn't mean we can infer he could replicate Fitzsimmons success at heavyweight unless your of the opinion that Hearns could beat Tyson, Holmes, Witherspoon, etc.

I think the Cunningham fight is being vastly overstated as a negative by you. He was dropped but got up and proceeded to stop Cunningham. With Wilder, Fury was facing a tall rangy opponent who nearly matched him in height and reach. That wouldn't be the case with Frazier which could make it far easier for Fury to avoid punches. Fury seems fairly adept at using his size and mobility to avoid getting ht by shorter opponents.

margaret thatcher · Post by **margaret thatcher** » 08 Oct 2020, 18:19

Wlad and Wilder were much more dangerous right hand punchers than USS (they'd both KO him too) and Fury beat both of them, the cunn fight isnt that big of a deal, and if anything in the end we saw a guy win by leaning on him with greater sze and wearing the other guy out

Nevin Pajkic got him too lol!!

margaret thatcher · Post by **margaret thatcher** » 08 Oct 2020, 18:22

Cojimar 1946 wrote: ↑08 Oct 2020, 08:47
Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑04 Oct 2020, 17:02
Cojimar 1946 wrote: ↑04 Oct 2020, 09:30

Were any of these guys 5'11 and 205 pounds? Generally Fury has not had an 8 inch height advantage and 50 pound weight advantage over even his smaller opponents. Otto Wallin for example is smaller than Fury but still way bigger than Frazier.
No, so what?
Cunningham was a no-name who weighed 210. Gave Fury way too much trouble. Draw with Wilder who weighed 212.
Look at Frazier's fight against Ali, who was better than Fury in just about every way. He stopped Mathis, who was almost as fat as Fury.
Take a look at what has happened historically when a great fighter around Frazier's size fights someone much bigger. In real life, the smaller great fighter usually wins.
But in mythical fights, the heavier guy always has a "weight " advantage". In real life, the scale doesn't help you once the bell rings.
I don't think we can draw many conclusions based on what happened in earlier eras.

Bob Fitzsimmons won the heavyweight title and was smaller than todays middleweights. Are we supposed to infer that we don't need a middleweight division and that everyone above 147 should fight each other? I don't think the Charlo brothers, Alvarez, etc would be thrilled about having to fight the top heavyweights in the world. So there would seem to be a flaw in your line of logic. Hearns is roughly the same size as Fitzsimmons, actually slightly bigger and rated by many as a far better fighter. That doesn't mean we can infer he could replicate Fitzsimmons success at heavyweight unless your of the opinion that Hearns could beat Tyson, Holmes, Witherspoon, etc.

I think the Cunningham fight is being vastly overstated as a negative by you. He was dropped but got up and proceeded to stop Cunningham. With Wilder, Fury was facing a tall rangy opponent who nearly matched him in height and reach. That wouldn't be the case with Frazier which could make it far easier for Fury to avoid punches. Fury seems fairly adept at using his size and mobility to avoid getting ht by shorter opponents.

Ya, it's a fair point. I know size only goes so far, but where are all these 5'11 195 pound on fight night types ? they should be taking over the hw division based on some of what i read!