Has George Chuvalo really been never down?

[DrDuke]

George Chuvalo is famous with his great chin and alongside with Oliver McCall he is considered as the best chin in history. However, he was rocked by Oscar Bonavena twice in their fight so hard, that Bonavena himself and some of fans were claiming, that George should had been given a count.



4:24 and 8:12 feature the episodes, where George was out of balance after Bonavena's punches and was arguably down.

In the first case he could touch the floor with his hand, in the second one he could be backed up by the ropes.

I think, that calling the second one a knockdown is too much, it was seen pretty clearly, that the ropes didn't help there, Chuvalo was able to stand his ground with his own effort. The first case is more disputable, as Chuvalo really could touch the floor just with his hand, which would automatically make it a KD (at least by the modern rules?), but the foreshortening makes it impossible to judge without any doubts.

What do you think, should those had been scored as knockdowns?

[Jaywheel]

Knees bent, clearly not down in both instances from what I see.

[margaret thatcher]

The second one obviously wasn't a knockdown, he clearly didn't touch down and does a punch even land? i think they just got tangled and were awkwardly positioned and george loses balance from that. easy call = no kd


first one is much closer and harder to tell, hard to tell if the glove actually touches from that view but i lean towards no kd---seems to me like he just avoided touching down, but again, close and hard to tell from the view and picture quality. a good punch defo landed there and rocked him though, sneaky left hook

[Caractacus]

looked to me like the canvas was just really slippery.

[Controversial]

Some refs might have called it a KD

[Onamastus]

The first 'KD' is clearly initiated by a push following the punch. The second one doesn't merit discussion.

Chuvalo: 0 KDs against.

[detamour]

How he paid dearly for his Iron Chin in Later life!

[pound per pound]

How he paid dearly for his Iron Chin in Later life!

Not really, other fighters are in wonder of how clear his mind was in his 70s.

To the video, yes I would call that a knockdown.

[Flump]

I would say no to both.

Was more amazing is that there a few moments where Ringo looks co-ordinated, almost like a classic boxer!

[Duran1970]

How he paid dearly for his Iron Chin in Later life!

Obviously you don't know Georges' story.

And glove didn't touch canvas.imo

[Onamastus]

How he paid dearly for his Iron Chin in Later life!

Chuvalo has only gone downhill in the last couple of years, and he's in his 80s. He's otherwise been remarkably lucid since his retirement.

[Caractacus]

so what did the various newspapers cover this story back then in 1966 say about the fight ?
( also the Boxing magazines had reporters ringside back then to cover fights from what I remember)
except the story;s would,t be on the newsstands until at least over a month or two afterwards.
was this the fight where Bonavena demanded a grocery bag full of cash before he put his trunks on
to go out and fight ?

[detamour]

How he paid dearly for his Iron Chin in Later life!

Chuvalo has only gone downhill in the last couple of years, and he's in his 80s. He's otherwise been remarkably lucid since his retirement.

His Family were fighting over him some yrs back. All those punches finally caught up with him Unfortunately.

[Onamastus]

How he paid dearly for his Iron Chin in Later life!

Chuvalo has only gone downhill in the last couple of years, and he's in his 80s. He's otherwise been remarkably lucid since his retirement.

His Family were fighting over him some yrs back. All those punches finally caught up with him Unfortunately.

You're talking about him after he turned 80. 80! He retired in the late 70s. He was lucid for 40 years!

[Duran1970]

[klompton]

so what did the various newspapers cover this story back then in 1966 say about the fight ?
( also the Boxing magazines had reporters ringside back then to cover fights from what I remember)
except the story;s would,t be on the newsstands until at least over a month or two afterwards.
was this the fight where Bonavena demanded a grocery bag full of cash before he put his trunks on
to go out and fight ?

Either boxing illustrated or ring magazine, I forget which, said that Chuvalo had been down against Bonavena in their letters to the editor section not long after this fight when a fan wrote in asking whether Chuvalo had ever been dropped. Norm Miller writing for the New York Daily News had an odd description of the first knockdown. After Bonavena landed a left hook he stated "Chuvalo staggered backwards but braced his hands on the canvas and did not go down." This makes no sense. If a fighter is hit, staggers, and braces his hands on the canvas he is considered down. He described the knockdown in the fourth as: "The Canadian caught a right to the head and landed on his seat on the lower ring strand." Again, technically a knockdown. To me one was debateable, the other was clearly a knockdown.

[Duran1970]

2nd one the punch missed clearly,glanced off Georges shoulder.

[klompton]

2nd one the punch missed clearly,glanced off Georges shoulder.

So you only score knockdowns that land on the chin? Interesting.

[Duran1970]

Clearly off balance with no punch landed..
But I can see how you'd think George Chuvalo would get dropped by a glancing blow off the shoulder..lol

[Onamastus]

The first 'KD' is a PUSH!

[klompton]

Referees dont and shouldnt take balance into the question of whether a fighter is knocked down. Thats why the rule is "if a fighter goes down on the end of a punch its ruled a knockdown." Weve seen literally thousands of ruled knockdowns were a fighter was off balance when clipped. Why shouldnt that count?? The first knockdown was a clear knockdown. Thats not even disputable. He gets nailed with a jab that puts him off balance and hit with a right hand that sends him back. He touched the canvas. It wasnt a push because Chuvalo was already windmilling back when Bovavena made that push movement and barely made contact. Thats a knockdown off a clean one two. The second one you can argue that Chuvalo was off balance and that the last punch glanced off his shoulder but that completely disregards the right hand right before that that put him off balance to begin with. To pretend that in one instance Bonavena merely brushed Chuvalo and in the other a "push" that barely made contact was responsible for Chuvalo going down is really stretching the pro-Chuvalo argument thin.

[Woller]

God has spoken.

[Duran1970]

I disagree...the first sequence was a hard left with George coming in after the one two and prior to the push that wobbled em..

[gilgamesh]

Never down been he

[Onamastus]

Yes Klompton is not infallible. For instance he thinks Moorer took a dive versus Foreman... So his judgment of men getting knocked down has to be brought into question.

That grainy footage clearly shows Bonavena shoving him over, so the referee ruled correctly in not scoring it a KD. Ringo had a bit of a dig on him, but not enough to knock over the freakishly durable Chuvalo.