BoxRec

Who would have won in 1972 ?

The same as a year ago.

Ali by 1972 was far superior to Joe Frazier. The March 8 1971 Frazier was not to be denied. However something was taken out of him after that fight. He was never the same and that was the shining moment of his career. Ali had a wonderful 1972 fighting many times and looking to be in championship form throughout the year. He wins a decision over a more declining Frazier at this time.

Yeah. Ali was never again as good as he was in his prime, but he had got rid of more of the ring rust by 1972. His stamina was better and he would be giving Frazier so many rounds like he did in the first fight.

By 1972, the great Smokin' Joe was totally flat. No more fire. No more intensity. He had the aggressiveness, but not with the same fire. That FOTC with the great Muhammad Ali took a lot out of him.

Meanwhile in 1972, Ali was having one of the best years of his career whupping for the second time George Chuvalo, Jerry Quarry and Floyd Patterson. He also that year beat Mac Foster and the great Bob Foster for the NABF Heavyweight title.


Ali wins this pretty easy. By decision.

Both Ali and Frazier took a lot of each other in every their bout, especially in the 1st and the 3rd.

Joe.Kelly wrote: ↑17 May 2021, 12:13

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑16 May 2021, 19:31 Yeah. Ali was never again as good as he was in his prime, but he had got rid of more of the ring rust by 1972. His stamina was better and he would be giving Frazier so many rounds like he did in the first fight.

The match that ruined Ali was Superfight III, which took place in 1975. Muhammad was never the same after that war.

Agree that he was never the same after that fight. He was getting older, but it certainly accelerated his decline. It was incredible how much punishment Ali and Frazier dealt out against each other in the 3rd fight. Phenomenal performance by both guys. Had they been 25, they would still have gone on to more great things after this.

Makes you think about a lot what ifs. What if the third fight never happened? Ali would probably had a couple more years of great performances.
What if it was a normal era and Frazier did not have to deal with Ali and Foreman? He could have been great for several more years, probably until at least the late 1970s.
Ali, Frazier, and Foreman all probably shortened each other's careers. But of course they gave some great fights.

george didnt have much trouble with smokin joe did he

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑17 May 2021, 15:28

Joe.Kelly wrote: ↑17 May 2021, 12:13

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑16 May 2021, 19:31 Yeah. Ali was never again as good as he was in his prime, but he had got rid of more of the ring rust by 1972. His stamina was better and he would be giving Frazier so many rounds like he did in the first fight.

The match that ruined Ali was Superfight III, which took place in 1975. Muhammad was never the same after that war.

Agree that he was never the same after that fight. He was getting older, but it certainly accelerated his decline. It was incredible how much punishment Ali and Frazier dealt out against each other in the 3rd fight. Phenomenal performance by both guys. Had they been 25, they would still have gone on to more great things after this.

Makes you think about a lot what ifs. What if the third fight never happened? Ali would probably had a couple more years of great performances.
What if it was a normal era and Frazier did not have to deal with Ali and Foreman? He could have been great for several more years, probably until at least the late 1970s.
Ali, Frazier, and Foreman all probably shortened each other's careers. But of course they gave some great fights.

Agreed that fight ruined Ali. The Inoki debacle also did great damage. He had blood clots in his legs and was even hospitalized for a short time.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑17 May 2021, 15:28

Joe.Kelly wrote: ↑17 May 2021, 12:13

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑16 May 2021, 19:31 Yeah. Ali was never again as good as he was in his prime, but he had got rid of more of the ring rust by 1972. His stamina was better and he would be giving Frazier so many rounds like he did in the first fight.

The match that ruined Ali was Superfight III, which took place in 1975. Muhammad was never the same after that war.

Agree that he was never the same after that fight. He was getting older, but it certainly accelerated his decline. It was incredible how much punishment Ali and Frazier dealt out against each other in the 3rd fight. Phenomenal performance by both guys. Had they been 25, they would still have gone on to more great things after this.

Makes you think about a lot what ifs. What if the third fight never happened? Ali would probably had a couple more years of great performances.
What if it was a normal era and Frazier did not have to deal with Ali and Foreman? He could have been great for several more years, probably until at least the late 1970s.
Ali, Frazier, and Foreman all probably shortened each other's careers. But of course they gave some great fights.

I just read a Frazier biography by Karm Jnr and interestingly both Durham and Futch felt that Joe wouldn't have a long shelf life due to his style. Hence why he was only fighting twice a year during an era where most guys fought much more often.

With Ali's decline after the fight, I wouldn't discount the effects of his Parkinson's either. TBE's do increase the likelihood of Parkinson's later in life so I wouldn't be surprised if brain trauma sped up the onset of Parkinson's either. Interestingly reduced or stiff movement in your legs is also an early symptom of PD. I understand that almost 4 years is a long time out of the ring and out of training, I also understand that he had a very short camp before the Quarry fight and all his fights during that period we rushed because at the time no one knew if Ali would go to jail or not but the decline in his movement just seems like it was more than just a lay off to me.

From the small parts I have read about the disease, in young people and it's probably worse in athletes especially, doctors often put early symptoms such as stiffness down to sports injury or early arthritis due to sports etc.

Ali probably wins a decision, buuuuuuut.......knowing that it's Muhammad will probably inspire Joe to put up a strong performance, at least it would be competitive.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑17 May 2021, 15:28

Joe.Kelly wrote: ↑17 May 2021, 12:13

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑16 May 2021, 19:31 Yeah. Ali was never again as good as he was in his prime, but he had got rid of more of the ring rust by 1972. His stamina was better and he would be giving Frazier so many rounds like he did in the first fight.

The match that ruined Ali was Superfight III, which took place in 1975. Muhammad was never the same after that war.

Agree that he was never the same after that fight. He was getting older, but it certainly accelerated his decline. It was incredible how much punishment Ali and Frazier dealt out against each other in the 3rd fight. Phenomenal performance by both guys. Had they been 25, they would still have gone on to more great things after this.

Makes you think about a lot what ifs. What if the third fight never happened? Ali would probably had a couple more years of great performances.
What if it was a normal era and Frazier did not have to deal with Ali and Foreman? He could have been great for several more years, probably until at least the late 1970s.
Ali, Frazier, and Foreman all probably shortened each other's careers. But of course they gave some great fights.

As Ferdie Pacheco said after Manila, both should have walked away.

In 72, just akin to fight 2. Ali had more left after FOTC despite his loss.

I'd have to favor Ali, but I feel like it would've been more competitive than it was in their actual 2nd fight at this time.