Are the IBF's rules the reason why heavyweights are rejecting the Hrgovic bout?

Enlightened-One
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Are the IBF's rules the reason why heavyweights are rejecting the Hrgovic bout?

Post by Enlightened-One »

Is the real reason for heavyweights flatly refusing to engage in IBF final eliminators due to the IBF’s own rules?

The IBF had lots of fighters refusing to engage in final eliminators against Kubrat Pulev (due to them only receiving a 25% purse split – i.e. Jarrell Miller, Dillian Whyte etc.).

And more recently, the likes of Michael Hunter, Luis Ortiz & Joseph Parker have refused to participate in a final eliminator against Filip Hrgovic.

It’s impossible to deny the likes of Dillian Whyte should have been the massive A-side over Kubrat Pulev. The same applies to Parker, Ortiz & Hunter over Hrgovic.

And fighters accustomed to receiving millions of dollars per bout, like Ortiz & Parker, won’t even consider fighting Filip Hrgovic for peanuts.

I’ve laboured over this point before, but I think it’s serious flaw with the IBF’s rules, because fights won’t happen if fighters aren’t being paid their worth.

Anyway, according to the IBF’s rules, Luis Ortiz and Joseph Parker are rated below Filip Hrgovic, with the Croatian rated 3rd.

Based on the IBF’s rules for final eliminators, the highest rated fighter (ranked 3rd or below) receives 60% of the purse split, with the lower ranked fighter only receiving 40%.

If Hrgovic was rated 1st or 2nd by the IBF, he’d be entitled to 75% of the purse split if he was to engage in a final eliminator against a lower ranked fighter (who’d only receive 25%).

Basically, is it reasonable for fans to expect the likes of Hunter, Parker and Ortiz to take pay cuts and receive a smaller purse than a commercially unpopular anonymous fighter like Filip Hrgovic?

Thoughts? :confused:
gregregegg
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Re: Are the IBF's rules the reason why heavyweights are rejecting the Hrgovic bout?

Post by gregregegg »

hrgovic was so highly ranked before he had beat a pulse or being in a meaningfull fight... because of that there is a Croatian whos best win is arguably mansour in 2018 commanding the big split against guys that have been grinding out tough fights.

For example since 2017 parker has:
-headlined a ppv vs hughie
-headlined a ppv vs AJ
-headlined a ppv vs whyte
-headlined a couple NZ cards/nz ppvs
-Headlined a PPV with chisora
-headlined a DAZN card with chisora...

Since 2017 hrgovics highlights are undercarding against such superstars as:
-turner
-mansour (headlined actualy wowweee)
-kingpin
-molina
-booker

you just can not look at that and think, yea give hrg 3/4s...
joshj909
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Re: Are the IBF's rules the reason why heavyweights are rejecting the Hrgovic bout?

Post by joshj909 »

If it's rank 1 Vs 2 it should be close to 55:45 and if any different it should not be more than 70:30 but even that's a push. Neither have won the belt and while the IBF rankings don't seem to be based on fan base, ability or achievement, none of them deserve a huge majority of the purse. The winner will already be winning by having the chance at the belt where they will undoubtly make more money so it shouldn't be such a big split.
Enlightened-One
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Re: Are the IBF's rules the reason why heavyweights are rejecting the Hrgovic bout?

Post by Enlightened-One »

joshj909 wrote: 06 Jan 2022, 06:03 If it's rank 1 Vs 2 it should be close to 55:45 and if any different it should not be more than 70:30 but even that's a push. Neither have won the belt and while the IBF rankings don't seem to be based on fan base, ability or achievement, none of them deserve a huge majority of the purse. The winner will already be winning by having the chance at the belt where they will undoubtly make more money so it shouldn't be such a big split.
I’m not sure about the point you’re making.

Can you please clarify?

According to the IBF’s rules, Filip Hrgovic would be entitled to at least 60% over Joseph Parker.

It’s easy to conclude if both of those guys fought a normal bout, the Kiwi would be the A-side and receive a much bigger purse than the Croatian.

I don’t understand the reason why Hrgovic should be rewarded and Parker penalised (i.e. the 60-40 purse split)?

Even a 50-50 purse split sounds unreasonable to me, because Filip has only faced journeymen.

The only way the IBF final eliminator goes ahead is to match Hrgovic against an opponent that’s even less commercially popular than he is, because none of the other fighters would be willing to take pay cuts by competing for peanuts.
H8Usernames
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Re: Are the IBF's rules the reason why heavyweights are rejecting the Hrgovic bout?

Post by H8Usernames »

It's really stupid rules.

On another note when will winning an IBF eliminator acctually produce a titleshot that's worth anything?

What is most likely going to happen is that the winner of Usyk vs AJ II will face Tyson Fury and then we will have a champion with 4 belts around his waiste and way bigger than any on of them. The AJ/Usyk vs Fury fight likely happens in what September maybe? So if we assume that the winner of that fight makes a defense 6 months later then this IBF mandatory challenger status produces a titleshot the earliest in what March 2023? If a voluntary defense isn't given or a rematch allowed, so the rematch is allowed and then a voluntary defense is allowed and now in March 2024 it's finally Filips big chance but Tyson Fury pulls out with an injury, the stage is set for July 2024 when Fury decides to drop the belt and fight a more commercially viable opponent. After a pursebid etc Filip or whoever gets his shot at god knows who in January 2025.
Ruthless-RKO
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Re: Are the IBF's rules the reason why heavyweights are rejecting the Hrgovic bout?

Post by Ruthless-RKO »

The whole 60-40 is only if it goes to purse bids.

Ortiz and his crew didn't even negotiate anything did they?

Plus, Hearn co promotes both Parker and Hrg, and has DAZN behind him, surely a deal can be made.
joshj909
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Re: Are the IBF's rules the reason why heavyweights are rejecting the Hrgovic bout?

Post by joshj909 »

Enlightened-One wrote: 06 Jan 2022, 06:14
joshj909 wrote: 06 Jan 2022, 06:03 If it's rank 1 Vs 2 it should be close to 55:45 and if any different it should not be more than 70:30 but even that's a push. Neither have won the belt and while the IBF rankings don't seem to be based on fan base, ability or achievement, none of them deserve a huge majority of the purse. The winner will already be winning by having the chance at the belt where they will undoubtly make more money so it shouldn't be such a big split.
I’m not sure about the point you’re making.

Can you please clarify?

According to the IBF’s rules, Filip Hrgovic would be entitled to at least 60% over Joseph Parker.

It’s easy to conclude if both of those guys fought a normal bout, the Kiwi would be the A-side and receive a much bigger purse than the Croatian.

I don’t understand the reason why Hrgovic should be rewarded and Parker penalised (i.e. the 60-40 purse split)?

Even a 50-50 purse split sounds unreasonable to me, because Filip has only faced journeymen.

The only way the IBF final eliminator goes ahead is to match Hrgovic against an opponent that’s even less commercially popular than he is, because none of the other fighters would be willing to take pay cuts by competing for peanuts.
Ignore me, I just re-read that part of your post. Ultimately my point was that the splits should be close because none of them have done anything specific to earn their high IBF rankings above one another.
Enlightened-One
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Re: Are the IBF's rules the reason why heavyweights are rejecting the Hrgovic bout?

Post by Enlightened-One »

Ruthless-RKO wrote: 06 Jan 2022, 06:26 The whole 60-40 is only if it goes to purse bids.

Ortiz and his crew didn't even negotiate anything did they?
It’s more complicated than that.

We’ve previously seen teams refusing to negotiate terms, with the commercial B-side exploiting the rules of the governing body, by preferring to allow the purse bid process to go ahead, because it would grant them a bigger slice of the proverbial purse pot pie.

That’s exactly what happened with the Pulev-Whyte final eliminator, when Kubrat was rated above Dillian in the IBF’s rankings.

The Bulgarian’s handlers waited for the purse bid, because they knew they’d receive a bigger purse split.

The IBF’s rules regarding purse splits were eventually implemented via the purse bid process, resulting in Pulev’s 75% split equating to $1.125m, with Whyte only receiving the remaining 25% ($375K).

Dillian Whyte then refused to participate in the IBF eliminator, because the $375K was significantly less than the $1.3m he was paid to face Joseph Parker instead.

I’m pretty confident that Filip Hrgovic has never received a payday greater than $200K, in fact it was claimed that the $243K he would have received (via the IBF eliminator purse bid) to face Michael Hunter was his career-best.

I know for certain Joseph Parker received at least $1.5m for the first Chisora bout. I don’t know what the Kiwi earned for the rematch.

In terms of Luis Ortiz, he was paid $1.5m for last weekend’s Charles Martin fight.
Last edited by Enlightened-One on 06 Jan 2022, 06:56, edited 1 time in total.
Ruthless-RKO
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Re: Are the IBF's rules the reason why heavyweights are rejecting the Hrgovic bout?

Post by Ruthless-RKO »

IBF are weird, they usually leave #1 and #2 empty.

Why not just do split 50-50 on final eliminators?

Keep the whole 75/25 etc for mandatory world title, even though it's dire.
DrDuke
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Re: Are the IBF's rules the reason why heavyweights are rejecting the Hrgovic bout?

Post by DrDuke »

The mass media today is awesome. It allows boxing fans to discuss not only actual fights, but the potential fights, which never happened and maybe will never take place, putting into discussion different things around, like purse bids, percentage splits, sides As and Bs, PPV numbers, promotional speculations, clauses, deals and negotiation reels. :zzz:
Enlightened-One
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Re: Are the IBF's rules the reason why heavyweights are rejecting the Hrgovic bout?

Post by Enlightened-One »

DrDuke wrote: 06 Jan 2022, 06:57 The mass media today is awesome. It allows boxing fans to discuss not only actual fights, but the potential fights, which never happened and maybe will never take place, putting into discussion different things around, like purse bids, percentage splits, sides As and Bs, PPV numbers, promotional speculations, clauses, deals and negotiation reels. :zzz:
Wait a second!

Most fans automatically jump to conclusions by boldly proclaiming duck whenever fighters reject fights against specific opponents.

But real-life is far more complicated than that, isn’t it?

So if you don’t want to discuss the real reason why fights aren’t being made, then ignore these type of threads.

It's not complicated. :lol:

Submitting a hypercritical post to every thread you deem the subject matter to be tedious is simply a moronic thing to do!

But good for you if it makes you feel better!
Last edited by Enlightened-One on 06 Jan 2022, 07:15, edited 1 time in total.
DrDuke
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Re: Are the IBF's rules the reason why heavyweights are rejecting the Hrgovic bout?

Post by DrDuke »

Enlightened-One wrote: 06 Jan 2022, 07:13
DrDuke wrote: 06 Jan 2022, 06:57 The mass media today is awesome. It allows boxing fans to discuss not only actual fights, but the potential fights, which never happened and maybe will never take place, putting into discussion different things around, like purse bids, percentage splits, sides As and Bs, PPV numbers, promotional speculations, clauses, deals and negotiation reels. :zzz:
Wait a second!

Most fans automatically jump to conclusions by boldly proclaiming duck whenever fighters reject fights against specific opponents.

But real-life is far more complicated than that, isn’t it?

So if you don’t want to discuss the real reason why fights aren’t being made, then ignore these type of threads.

It's not complicated. :lol: :brick:

Submitting a post to every thread you deem the subject matter to be tedious is simply a moronic thing to do!

But good for you if it makes you feel better!
Just having fun with the ones who are moronic enough to commit themselves to such themes. :OhYes:
Enlightened-One
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Re: Are the IBF's rules the reason why heavyweights are rejecting the Hrgovic bout?

Post by Enlightened-One »

DrDuke wrote: 06 Jan 2022, 07:15
Enlightened-One wrote: 06 Jan 2022, 07:13
DrDuke wrote: 06 Jan 2022, 06:57 The mass media today is awesome. It allows boxing fans to discuss not only actual fights, but the potential fights, which never happened and maybe will never take place, putting into discussion different things around, like purse bids, percentage splits, sides As and Bs, PPV numbers, promotional speculations, clauses, deals and negotiation reels. :zzz:
Wait a second!

Most fans automatically jump to conclusions by boldly proclaiming duck whenever fighters reject fights against specific opponents.

But real-life is far more complicated than that, isn’t it?

So if you don’t want to discuss the real reason why fights aren’t being made, then ignore these type of threads.

It's not complicated. :lol: :brick:

Submitting a post to every thread you deem the subject matter to be tedious is simply a moronic thing to do!

But good for you if it makes you feel better!
Just having fun with the ones who are moronic enough to commit themselves to such themes. :OhYes:
Oh bless you!

You're easily pleased aren't you! :bow:
Bandog
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Re: Are the IBF's rules the reason why heavyweights are rejecting the Hrgovic bout?

Post by Bandog »

I'm wondering why Parker isn't getting the same treatment of being accused of a blatent duck like Ortiz?

Ortiz has a fractured hand, but now blame is passed on to the IBF?

Easy to figure out. Trolls will be trolls. :OhYes:
Enlightened-One
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Re: Are the IBF's rules the reason why heavyweights are rejecting the Hrgovic bout?

Post by Enlightened-One »

Bandog wrote: 06 Jan 2022, 08:42 I'm wondering why Parker isn't getting the same treatment of being accused of a blatent duck like Ortiz?

Easy to figure out. Trolls will be trolls. :OhYes:
Probably because Luis Ortiz dishonestly pretended that everyone was ducking him and he'd even be willing to fight for free.

Whereas all the other heavyweights don’t pretend their rivals are ducking them, whilst also conceding they’re “PRIZE fighters” that need to be paid their commercial worth in order to compete.

I think that’s the reason why Team Ortiz fabricated the fictional “minimal fracture” excuse, because if they claimed again they were being low-balled, they’d be ridiculed for their previous statements to the media (i.e. their reasoning for rejecting the AJ fight, coupled with Luis previously claiming to be willing to compete against his world-rated peers without requiring a payday).
Bandog
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Re: Are the IBF's rules the reason why heavyweights are rejecting the Hrgovic bout?

Post by Bandog »

Enlightened-One wrote: 06 Jan 2022, 09:01
Bandog wrote: 06 Jan 2022, 08:42 I'm wondering why Parker isn't getting the same treatment of being accused of a blatent duck like Ortiz?

Easy to figure out. Trolls will be trolls. :OhYes:
Probably because Luis Ortiz dishonestly pretended that everyone was ducking him and he'd even be willing to fight for free.

Whereas all the other heavyweights don’t pretend their rivals are ducking them, whilst also conceding they’re “PRIZE fighters” that need to be paid their commercial worth in order to compete.

I think that’s the reason why Team Ortiz fabricated the fictional “minimal fracture” excuse, because if they claimed again they were being low-balled, they’d be ridiculed for their previous statements to the media (i.e. their reasoning for rejecting the AJ fight, coupled with Luis previously claiming to be willing to compete against his world-rated peers without requiring a payday).
Just admit you're a hypocrit. Now Ortiz is making up a fracture? Ffs get over yourself and take a reality pill.
margaret thatcher
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Re: Are the IBF's rules the reason why heavyweights are rejecting the Hrgovic bout?

Post by margaret thatcher »

the ibf's rules may suck, but they can only do so much. cuban quackers gonna quack, gonna turn down those final eliminators like they moaned about other fighters doing
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Re: Are the IBF's rules the reason why heavyweights are rejecting the Hrgovic bout?

Post by Ruthless-RKO »

"We weren't given a reason," Sauerland told Sky Sports.

"The rankings become a mockery. We have gone through the rankings before. This isn't about rejecting financial terms because fighters are rejecting us before we even discuss that. They are rejecting an opportunity to fight for the world title.

"All we can do is lobby the IBF to continue through the rankings as soon as possible or make Filip a direct mandatory. That is something we are pushing. The IBF need to act because it makes a mockery of their rankings. People should not be ranked if they have no intention of boxing for the title."
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Re: Are the IBF's rules the reason why heavyweights are rejecting the Hrgovic bout?

Post by Frede6 »

‘The rankings become a mockery’…yes since IBF put Hrgovic at the top of their rankings. I have not heard the Sauerlands complaining that day.
Ruthless-RKO
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Re: Are the IBF's rules the reason why heavyweights are rejecting the Hrgovic bout?

Post by Ruthless-RKO »

Frede6 wrote: 06 Jan 2022, 15:20 ‘The rankings become a mockery’…yes since IBF put Hrgovic at the top of their rankings. I have not heard the Sauerlands complaining that day.
What did he deserve to be at the top?

Just pay a few sanctioning fees and fight for a few IBF regional belts.
Enlightened-One
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Re: Are the IBF's rules the reason why heavyweights are rejecting the Hrgovic bout?

Post by Enlightened-One »

Bandog wrote: 06 Jan 2022, 12:26
Enlightened-One wrote: 06 Jan 2022, 09:01
Bandog wrote: 06 Jan 2022, 08:42 I'm wondering why Parker isn't getting the same treatment of being accused of a blatent duck like Ortiz?

Easy to figure out. Trolls will be trolls. :OhYes:
Probably because Luis Ortiz dishonestly pretended that everyone was ducking him and he'd even be willing to fight for free.

Whereas all the other heavyweights don’t pretend their rivals are ducking them, whilst also conceding they’re “PRIZE fighters” that need to be paid their commercial worth in order to compete.

I think that’s the reason why Team Ortiz fabricated the fictional “minimal fracture” excuse, because if they claimed again they were being low-balled, they’d be ridiculed for their previous statements to the media (i.e. their reasoning for rejecting the AJ fight, coupled with Luis previously claiming to be willing to compete against his world-rated peers without requiring a payday).
Just admit you're a hypocrit. Now Ortiz is making up a fracture? Ffs get over yourself and take a reality pill.
Which hand was injured?
gregregegg
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Re: Are the IBF's rules the reason why heavyweights are rejecting the Hrgovic bout?

Post by gregregegg »

Enlightened-One wrote: 06 Jan 2022, 16:29
Bandog wrote: 06 Jan 2022, 12:26
Enlightened-One wrote: 06 Jan 2022, 09:01
Probably because Luis Ortiz dishonestly pretended that everyone was ducking him and he'd even be willing to fight for free.

Whereas all the other heavyweights don’t pretend their rivals are ducking them, whilst also conceding they’re “PRIZE fighters” that need to be paid their commercial worth in order to compete.

I think that’s the reason why Team Ortiz fabricated the fictional “minimal fracture” excuse, because if they claimed again they were being low-balled, they’d be ridiculed for their previous statements to the media (i.e. their reasoning for rejecting the AJ fight, coupled with Luis previously claiming to be willing to compete against his world-rated peers without requiring a payday).
Just admit you're a hypocrit. Now Ortiz is making up a fracture? Ffs get over yourself and take a reality pill.
Which hand was injured?
The team hasn’t decided yet.
Bandog
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Re: Are the IBF's rules the reason why heavyweights are rejecting the Hrgovic bout?

Post by Bandog »

gregregegg wrote: 06 Jan 2022, 18:39
Enlightened-One wrote: 06 Jan 2022, 16:29
Bandog wrote: 06 Jan 2022, 12:26

Just admit you're a hypocrit. Now Ortiz is making up a fracture? Ffs get over yourself and take a reality pill.
Which hand was injured?
The team hasn’t decided yet.
Left. What is Parker's excuse? Quack Quack
gregregegg
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Re: Are the IBF's rules the reason why heavyweights are rejecting the Hrgovic bout?

Post by gregregegg »

Bandog wrote: 06 Jan 2022, 21:09
gregregegg wrote: 06 Jan 2022, 18:39
Enlightened-One wrote: 06 Jan 2022, 16:29
Which hand was injured?
The team hasn’t decided yet.
Left. What is Parker's excuse? Quack Quack
havent heard one, guessing its the shit pay and parker staying loyal to WBO...

To be fair ortiz not fighting hrgovic makes sense, i said befor it happend id expect him to target ruiz or heli for much much much more money. Its just him and his fans trying to paint the narative that ortiz is ducked and wants all the smoke... ortiz was avoided in his carrer for the exact same reason ortiz is avoiding hrgovic, the risk vs reward didnt make sense....
Enlightened-One
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Re: Are the IBF's rules the reason why heavyweights are rejecting the Hrgovic bout?

Post by Enlightened-One »

Bandog wrote: 06 Jan 2022, 21:09
gregregegg wrote: 06 Jan 2022, 18:39
Enlightened-One wrote: 06 Jan 2022, 16:29
Which hand was injured?
The team hasn’t decided yet.
Left. What is Parker's excuse? Quack Quack
Which hand was injured?
Last edited by Enlightened-One on 07 Jan 2022, 01:37, edited 1 time in total.
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