Tommy Frank - Craig Derbyshire

[Floydendizer]

Hearing another shocker this afternoon after the British title fight ended in a draw , most people had Derbyshire 4/5 rounds up after controlling the fight , Michael Alexander called a knockdown against Craig in the last which cost Craig the win .

[(craig)]

Hearing another shocker this afternoon after the British title fight ended in a draw , most people had Derbyshire 4/5 rounds up after controlling the fight , Michael Alexander called a knockdown against Craig in the last which cost Craig the win .

I read the kd was a blatant push too.

[Petercattermole]

Shocker, Tommy shoulder barged him

[handsofstone]

Had it 113-113 even so I've no issue with the draw or any of the scores tbh, you've got to feel for Derbyshire though he fought the fight of his life only to get robbed of the chance to be British champion after what looked like a shove in the last round was scored a knockdown against him, still I will say Fightzone were sh1t with the replays, even the knockdown Frank scored in the 5th it was hard to tell whether the left hook landed to head and body, they said it was the body but out only seen the angle from which it was initially shown, same with the so called KD in the 12th, there was definitely a shove from Frank but he did land a right just before it so can't say for certain

Still good scrap, Derbyshire was tenacious in the 1st letting both hands go unsettling Frank but I thought Frank settled into things with the quality punches, straight shots picking up the rounds but after dropping Derbyshire in the 5th it geed Derbyshire up and he went on a roll not just outfighting Frank but outboxing him as well, getting better of exchanges and landing the right hand consistently, he picked up all the rounds in second half on my card apart from that 12th, it did look harsh on Derbyshire but I couldn't say for certain until I see a clearer angle of knockdown, as I say though no issue with draw or scorecards

[BigDoofus]

Derbyshire has won 8 out of 40 fights and he's at British title level

[THEBUTCH]

Derbyshire has won 3 out of his last 4 all in Area or English title fights (albeit at higher weights).

Doesn't matter how many losses a boxer has if they hit a run of form.

[handsofstone]

No offence to British/European journeymen but Boxing needs rid of these guys, you don't see the likes of Kev McCauley and Lewis Van Poetch in America, journeymen still means something there apart from going rounds and giving fledging pros experience, no disrespect to the fighters personally don't hate the player hate the game and all that but when someone like Johnny Greaves one of the best journeyman in the country admits he doesn't try to win because he won't get work then that pisses me right off as it's nothing more than match fixing, seeing Derbyshire fight at this level suggests a change in approach and I'm all for that, I've no issues with journeymen making a living but id rather they fought to win as opposed to making a living week to week, it's pro boxing not charity

I'll imagine this post might piss people off but as I say match fixing

[maverick23]

No offence to British/European journeymen but Boxing needs rid of these guys, you don't see the likes of Kev McCauley and Lewis Van Poetch in America, journeymen still means something there apart from going rounds and giving fledging pros experience, no disrespect to the fighters personally don't hate the player hate the game and all that but when someone like Johnny Greaves one of the best journeyman in the country admits he doesn't try to win because he won't get work then that pisses me right off as it's nothing more than match fixing, seeing Derbyshire fight at this level suggests a change in approach and I'm all for that, I've no issues with journeymen making a living but id rather they fought to win as opposed to making a living week to week, it's pro boxing not charity

I'll imagine this post might piss people off but as I say match fixing

I 100% agree. I want to see fights where both fighters are at least trying to win. I’ve been to many small hall shows and half of the time I’m bored watching the fights - it’s crazy really.

I much prefer the bulk of prospect fights in the States where they don’t really have so many journeyman pros but have lots of fighters willing to fight and try to win. Helps having Mexico as a neighbour too I guess.

[Coco]

Also remember that with good matching you don't need to fix fights.

The American prospects you mention get wins because they are better than their opponents.

Some fighters need rounds but if you don't move them up accordingly they are found wanting at a higher level.

[handsofstone]

Also remember that with good matching you don't need to fix fights.

The American prospects you mention get wins because they are better than their opponents.

Some fighters need rounds but if you don't move them up accordingly they are found wanting at a higher level.

Why can't pro boxing be same as amateur??

[mickey1975]

Mickey Duff used to regularly bring half decent Americans over to test his prospects.

[THEBUTCH]

In Derbyshire's case i've seen him try mightily hard to win fights on numerous occasions and earning a disputed draw with Tommy Frank is proof of this.

[REEVE]

Also remember that with good matching you don't need to fix fights.

The American prospects you mention get wins because they are better than their opponents.

Some fighters need rounds but if you don't move them up accordingly they are found wanting at a higher level.

Why can't pro boxing be same as amateur??

Because its a business not a sport. People buyin tickets buy them on the pretence the person they are buying from will win...if they dont win they are much less likely to buy next time - no tickets sales and the lad cant box

[handsofstone]

Also remember that with good matching you don't need to fix fights.

The American prospects you mention get wins because they are better than their opponents.

Some fighters need rounds but if you don't move them up accordingly they are found wanting at a higher level.

Why can't pro boxing be same as amateur??

Because its a business not a sport. People buyin tickets buy them on the pretence the person they are buying from will win...if they dont win they are much less likely to buy next time - no tickets sales and the lad cant box

Broken system

[THEBUTCH]

It depends on what someone's opinion of a broken system is.

Were there less of the "losing journeyman" (no disrespect meant) around a couple of decades ago than now in British boxing ? Yes.

On the other hand, are there now more shows/contests up and down Britain than ever before ? Yes.

[olij999]

Derbyshire has won 3 out of his last 4 all in Area or English title fights (albeit at higher weights).

Doesn't matter how many losses a boxer has if they hit a run of form.

Exactly. Similar with Sugar Gibiliru (https://boxrec.com/en/proboxer/26180), Paul Wesley (https://boxrec.com/en/proboxer/26180) and Chris Edwards (https://boxrec.com/en/proboxer/18422) - all of them had more losses than wins when they got their first shot at a major title.

To me, the system is faulty, not because of fighters like Craig, but because there are too many four rounders and six rounders that amount to non-aggression pacts - the prospect throws the shots but if he goes at it too hard, the journeyman gives them a couple of whacks to keep them in line, at which point it's back to jab-and-pose for the prospect, and feint-move-look-busy for the journeyman, nice high guard while never quite throwing punches. It's little more than an improvised dance. And I'm not criticising the journeymen there - if that was my job, I'd be doing exactly the same, minimising the risk and maximising the chance of being on another show a fortnight later. Not throwing a reasonable minimum level of punches is not trying, and "not trying" is listed as a foul in the BBBofC rules, but it is hardly ever enforced. Prospect of a DQ (which would mean purse suspended on the night, and appearance before the Area Council) would encourage more effort.

[THEBUTCH]

It's hard to argue with a word of that.

I have been to shows when the right hand side of the bill is entirely made up of boxers with losing records and all the "home" boxers were made to work hard for their win and if there was a chance of an upset, it would have been taken it.

Where it becomes a real problem is when the whole card is made up of contests that are not competitive and, sadly, there are more shows like this appearing.

For me, I would avoid these shows because even when i've bought a ticket from a boxer and go to watch them, i'd still want to see the whole show.

The reason some promoters can get away with these type of shows is because now more than ever so many people will turn up to see their boxer and then leave once the bout has finished. Whereas if someone attended as a neutral and wanted to enjoy an evening of boxing, it will turn out to be a disappointment.

[olij999]

It's hard to argue with a word of that.

I have been to shows when the right hand side of the bill is entirely made up of boxers with losing records and all the "home" boxers were made to work hard for their win and if there was a chance of an upset, it would have been taken it.

Where it becomes a real problem is when the whole card is made up of contests that are not competitive and, sadly, there are more shows like this appearing.

For me, I would avoid these shows because even when i've bought a ticket from a boxer and go to watch them, i'd still want to see the whole show.

The reason some promoters can get away with these type of shows is because now more than ever so many people will turn up to see their boxer and then leave once the bout has finished. Whereas if someone attended as a neutral and wanted to enjoy an evening of boxing, it will turn out to be a disappointment.

Thank you. Russell Peltz (the Philadelphia HoF promoter) said in his book last year that many promoters just promote fighters whereas he promoted fights. Once you get into ticket deals for four- and six-round undercard fights, that is clearly true. Best boxing book I've read in ages, as an aside.

But one query (with sympathy for some promoters, and as a fan of old boxing posters) - how can you promote a small-hall, no-TV show really effectively these days? We can't just say "social media" - that's too vague. What can a promoter do that would be the equivalent of the old "posters all round the town, in every pub" approach, so that the neutrals / casuals who don't read BN see it and are interested? I'm not saying current promoters are necessarily getting it wrong, just that it is really hard to spread the net to the widest possible audience.

[THEBUTCH]

I'm sadly old enough to remember when a good, sought after eight rounder was a worthy bill topper. Even a six rounder when you knew sparks would fly !

When was the last time we had nobbins at a show ? How was that allowed to pass ?

I can remember jumping in the motor and whizzing down the motorway to see terrific bouts when Boxing News announced them even to see 6 rounders because you knew they would be worth the journey.

Paul Knights v Paul Miles immediately springs to mind....what a great scrap

I suppose what we're saying is, there isn't enough of these standard shows about where you can just attend and know you'll get a good evening of boxing overall

[olij999]

I'm sadly old enough to remember when a good, sought after eight rounder was a worthy bill topper. Even a six rounder when you knew sparks would fly !

When was the last time we had nobbins at a show ? How was that allowed to pass ?

I can remember jumping in the motor and whizzing down the motorway to see terrific bouts when Boxing News announced them even to see 6 rounders because you knew they would be worth the journey.

Paul Knights v Paul Miles immediately springs to mind....what a great scrap

I suppose what we're saying is, there isn't enough of these standard shows about where you can just attend and know you'll get a good evening of boxing overall

Agreed.

[Coco]

I'm sadly old enough to remember when a good, sought after eight rounder was a worthy bill topper. Even a six rounder when you knew sparks would fly !

When was the last time we had nobbins at a show ? How was that allowed to pass ?

I can remember jumping in the motor and whizzing down the motorway to see terrific bouts when Boxing News announced them even to see 6 rounders because you knew they would be worth the journey.

Paul Knights v Paul Miles immediately springs to mind....what a great scrap

I suppose what we're saying is, there isn't enough of these standard shows about where you can just attend and know you'll get a good evening of boxing overall

I sparred with Miles in the amateurs, was training at Foley ABC a bit, England international, tough guy, really dedicated too, I was surprised he didn't do better in the pros, was matched against good fighters.

[THEBUTCH]

Yep, Miles was a solid pro. I think a couple of his very early fights were on SkySports.

He turned pro with Frank Maloney I think, but wanted to be self-managed ASAP, so believe he did the minimum term in accordance with the BBBofC rules then looked after himself....but took plenty of hard fights !

I thought he did enough to get the decision over Knights, but sportingly Miles later said it could have gone either way. He was visibly upset with the verdict at the time and I remember a neutral guy in the crowd saying to him that he should contest the decision, but that wasn't Miles' style. Both Miles and Knights hit the floor in a cracking contest.

Definitely thought Miles was hard done by in only getting a draw with Adrian Riley. He boxed really well in that one and was pleased with his performance afterwards, having the look of man who'd just won !